<p>interesteddad, ur stuff about PhDs are honestly misleading and offer really nothing of value for someone looking into a college. Who the **** cares if Mt. Holyke College has 13 PhDs and Calcetta college has 3 PhDs compared to 5 for UPenn???</p>
<p>There is ABSOLUTELY no way Cornell is more prestigious than Swat, and that going to Cornell will land you a better job. Many people do not know Williams either, but don't they have around a 100% in law school placement? Swat is an LAC, Cornell a large research university. They are very different places but provide equal academic integrity and reputation. People turn down Princeton/Harvard for places like Williams and Amherst all the time. Are they crazy or well informed?</p>
<p>but in all fairness, what does the PhD thing account for and mean in the grand scope of things? Nothing?</p>
<p>P.S. I never said Cornell was more prestigious....</p>
<p>I know you didn't, but someone else did.</p>
<p>saying Swarthmore is more prestigious however is not exactly accurate either.</p>
<p>Did I? Reread my post.</p>
<p>
[quote]
P.S. I never said Cornell was more prestigious....
[/quote]
Maybe you didn't, but I have no problem saying Cornell is far more prestigious than Swarthmore. But that's not why Cornell is a better school for most serious students. Cornell provides far more academic opportunities than Swarthmore. Its graduate program brings in the best professors in the world. Swarthmore boasts of its diversity, but its diversity is only skin color. Cornell has a diversity of talents among its student body that few universities can match. Cornell has Arts and Sciences, Engineering, Agriculture, Hotel Administration, Architecture, Human Ecology, and Industrial Relations. Can you image the type of dinner conversation an engineering student, agricultre student and hotel adminstration student would have? Think of all the courses you can take at Cornell that will never appear at Swarthmore.</p>
<p>Cornell is IVY and one of the world's leading research institution in the arts, sciences, and engineering. The Cornell name is respected by everyone wherever you go. You can throw around anecdotes about how DD or HQ or whatever turned down Harvard and a million dollars for Swarthmore or even these highly flawed and misguided rankings of schools as PhD feeders, but nothing changes the fact that you learn from the world's ACADEMIC LEADERS at Cornell. </p>
<p>Most of this is irrelevant anyways because I can't imagine someone applying to both schools. They have different environments and are two very different school.s</p>
<p>No one at Swarthmore loses sleep over Cornell.</p>
<p>"USNEWS comes up with some bogus "projected graduation rate" (whatever that is)" - interesteddad</p>
<p>According to US NEWS, Swarthmore had a -6% "underperformance" in graduation rate which means its actual grad rate was 6% lower than the US NEWS predicted grad rate. Six percent is fourth worst among the top 50 LACs after Harvey Mudd, Rhodes, and Claremont McKenna. I can partly explain Harvey Mudd because of its engineering/science emphasis (like Cal Tech's and Georgia Tech's underperformance) but Swarthmore does not have the engineering/science emphasis so it does not have that excuse. It is demanding but is it more demanding than Williams and Amherst which exceed graduation rate expectations? I wonder whether there is something wrong with the climate at Swarthmore.</p>
<p>The US NEWS predicted graduation rate is statistically sound. It is calculated with a sophisticated formula that uses SAT scores, high school rank, and "educational and general" expenditures per student. Each of these factors is weighted based on accepted mathematical procedures and subjected to arithmetic transformations to meet mathematical assumptions. If a school underperforms by a lot, it means it should be doing a better job given the student's quality.</p>
<p>One proof that it is a good method is that the large majority of colleges come within 4 or 5 percent of the predicted figure.</p>
<p>As I recall, the expenditures per student factor has a negative weight which means that as expenditures increase the predicted grad rate decreases, which seems opposite. (I hope my memory is correct here.) The reason for this might be that schools with a large percent of engineering and science students have higher expenditures per student and they are also the most difficult programs (hardest to get through). So, the most expensive students tend to be in the hardest majors and are thus somewhat less likely to graduate.</p>
<p>Among universities, the over/under performance ranges from +10 for Penn State and Michigan to -12 for Georgia Tech. Among LACs, the range is from +11 at Lafayette to -14 at Harvey Mudd. I think the grad rates at Harvey Mudd and Georgia Tech are low, even for tech schools.</p>
<p>Corn, As others have pointed out Cornell and Swarthmore, while both prestigious and stong in economics, have very different cultures and environments. It is possible to like both, but visit first; one may be eliminated just because you don't like the size, the surrounding area or the campus culture.</p>
<p>If you like Swarthmore, you might look at Columbia or Chicago in the big category. If you like Cornell, look at Williams or Amherst among LACs. </p>
<p>ALL of these schools have excellent placements for graduate schools and jobs. You can argue until you're blue about which is more prestigious or which is better in any other way, but at the end of the day you need to pick the school that is best for YOU. If you fit well, you will do well and hence you will get into a good grad school.</p>
<p>"Cornell is IVY..."</p>
<p>Hahahahaha I can't believe Cornell people still use that as an excuse to promote their school. Wow</p>
<p>Everyone at Stanford, Uchic, Swarthmore, Williams, Amherst, Duke, Umich, UCB, UVA, Rice, Northwestern, MIT and Caltech certainly aren't worried about that.</p>
<p>Cornell = Swarthmore in prestige. Period.</p>
<p>You like LACs, choose Swarthmore. You like a big university...go for the Big Red.</p>
<p>No matter how frivolous you may think it is, the ivy label is synonymous with academic prestige. When you decide to go to a college, an aspect that everyone should take into consideration is the brand name. Why do you think, for instance, a lot of people buy clothes from A & F and AE? The education at the two schools may be equal, but Cornell carries a lot more recognition.</p>
<p>That makes absolutely no sense considering as how most of the schools I listed have far better grad placement than Cornell does. Last year HLS admitted more people from multifarious non ivies than they did at Cornell. The Ivy League is a sports league and it carries no form of symbolic representation when competing against the aforementioned schools. Cornell is a great/prestigious school not because it is in the Ivy League. It became that all on its own.</p>
<p>WSJ feeder stats and a little deceptive in its portrayal of cornell. A lot grads at cornell don't go to grad or professional school because they already have the education they need to succeed in their desired careers (e.g., I doubt any of the Hotelies go to grad school).</p>
<p>I never mentioned WSJ once. Go see the stats for UVA law, University of Chicago Law, Northwestern Law, Harvard Law, etc. Duke and Stanford in particular tend to be more copious at these places. Williams also has a very competitive placement given its small size.</p>
<p>I will not mention Yale Law or Stanford Law because I forgot where I put the class data.</p>
<p>Edit: I found the data for Yale law. For class of 2004, Amherst has 9 people, Duke has 17, Northwestern has 5, Swarthmore has 6, Stanford has 34, University of Chicago has 9, Umich has 6, Williams has 15, and UVA has 8. Omnipotent Cornell has 5. Coincidence...perhaps. But the fact remains that being Ivy League is not that much of anything compared to the schools I listed.</p>
<p>Cornonthecob,
Because i am in fact a current Swattie, it's obvious what my personal favorite is. Still, I will simply tell you that both are great schools the which if you do well, you'll have no trouble finding a good job after college or have trouble persuing anything else you wish to. And, i don't buy the notion that just because Cornell is an ivy it is more prestigious than Swarthmore. At this day in age, any repudable employer will recognize either Cornell or Swarthmore. However, they'll recognize how much of an asset you'll be to their company even more, and that's what i say you should worry about--doing your best wherever you go.</p>
<p>DMC,</p>
<p>It doesn't matter where you go as long as you have the drive and intellect to succeed. Going to Duke won't put you at an advantage in the law school admissions process compared to going to Cornell or Swarthmore. If you go a top school and work your butt off, you will probably get into the top grad and professional schools. The OP should decide on a school based on other factors besides stats and prestige. I would personally go to Cornell.</p>
<p>For the last time, technically, the Ivy League is an atheletic conference. Symbolically, it has come to stand for academic excellence. Of course not all great schools are in the Ivy League but all Ivy League schools are great schools. There is nothing wrong with being proud to go to an Ivy League school just as there is no shame in going to a great non-Ivy League school like Stanford, Northwestern, etc.</p>
<p>As for grad school placement rates, any school that can place 70% or more of its applicants into med schools has the resources and academics to be a great premed school. It is far more important to go to a school that you like and can succeed at than to choose a school for its 85% acceptance rate vs. 77% elsewhere.</p>
<p>Whoever said the Ivy League wasn't synonymous with great academics? Reread the argument at hand and you will see that some posters are giving the edge to Cornell simply BECAUSE it is in the Ivy League.</p>