Cornell U ED or Stanford EA?

Applying to College
21

<p>Ray192,</p>

<p>First, I congratulate you on your excellent academic achievements. I sense that you’ve also done a good job of examining your academic interests, identifying those schools that meet your interests, narrowing your top choices, and then sizing up your chances at these two top choices, Stanford and Cornell. I like that you’ve done a good job of being realistic while also being hopeful.</p>

<p>Obviously, none of us have a crystal ball, and so I’m trying to put myself in your shoes, while offering a disinterested party’s perspective, hopefully one that is objective. You have stated clearly that Stanford is your #1 choice, with Cornell a close #2. </p>

<p>Here are my thoughts about your profile: Your SAT scores are solid, but not outstanding, while your ACT scores ARE outstanding – go with your ACT scores. The SAT II scores are just gravy. Your GPAuw is excellent, and with your 8 AP’s, plus another 6 for your senior year, you have certainly challenged yourself academically. Your Top 5% ranking in a class of 600 is highly distinguished. Your EC’s are admittedly not standout, but look closely at your research and the meaning of the self-study in Chinese/History. What motivated you in this direction? Also, what motivates you to volunteer at the local library? What have you learned by your experience there? How does this make you a different person?</p>

<p>Overall, your GPA and test scores put you in a competitive position for both Stanford and Cornell. You recognize that you can only go with one option for an Early notification plan, and that shows that you’ve scoped out your alternatives carefully. Here are some numbers to look at:</p>

<p>School / Total Applicants / Total Admitted / % Admitted / / Total ED/EA / Total Admitted / % Admitted ED/EA</p>

<ul>
<li><p>STANFORD / 20,195 / 2,426 / 12% // 4,503 / 853 / 19%</p></li>
<li><p>CORNELL / 24,452 / 6,621 / 27% // 2,570 / 1, 067 / 41.5%</p></li>
</ul>

<p>(NOTE: Numbers above are for admitted Class of 2005-2006 for both schools; however, Stanford’s EA numbers are from most recent admitted Class of 2006-2007.)</p>

<p>The following will identify how each school views relative importance of selected academic and nonacademic factors in freshman admission decisions (Very Important = VI; Important = I; Considered = C; Not Considered = NC):</p>

<p>ACADEMIC
Rigor of secondary school record (Stanford – VI; Cornell – VI)
Class rank (Stanford – VI; Cornell – I)
Academic GPA (Stanford – VI; Cornell – VI)
Standardized test scores (Stanford – VI; Cornell – VI)
Application Essay (Stanford – VI; Cornell – VI)
Recommendation (Stanford – VI; Cornell – VI)</p>

<p>NONACADEMIC
Interview (Stanford – NC; Cornell – C)
Extracurricular activities (Stanford – I; Cornell – VI)
Talent/ability (Stanford – I; Cornell – VI)
Character (Stanford – VI; Cornell – C) </p>

<p>The significant differences here are in the factors of Interview, Extracurricular activities, and Talent/Ability, each of which is weighted less for Stanford than Cornell. Hence, your comparative weakness in EC’s and Talent/ability would also be given less weighting in Stanford’s evaluation of your admissions application, and conversely, your academic strengths are allowed to stand out with higher weighting as well.</p>

<p>ANALYSIS: Your chances for acceptance via ED at Cornell are excellent – 41% ED acceptance rate – but if accepted would bind you to enroll at Cornell, regardless of Stanford’s decision for RD (which you would not ever know, since you would be asked to retract all other apps by Cornell). If you apply SCEA to Stanford, your chances are still very good, but the numbers are significantly lower at SCEA acceptance rate of 19%; however, applying to Stanford still permits the option to apply RD to Cornell. If you are accepted early to Stanford, you will likely enroll since you have deemed it your #1 choice. If you are rejected or wait-listed at Stanford, you still have a strong chance of acceptance RD at Cornell – acceptance rate overall of 27%. </p>

<p>CONCLUSION: The ED option at Cornell is restrictive and may leave you wondering about what your outcome at Stanford would have been. Because Stanford is your #1 choice, and you have a very realistic chance of acceptance (given weighted admissions factors) AND also because you have a solid MATCH to Cornell (with its more liberal acceptance rate of 27%) as a contingency plan, I would encourage you to apply SCEA to Stanford. Intuitively, I sense that you are trying to talk yourself out of it, although your heart leans toward Stanford. Hopefully, this analysis will give you some logical support for applying early to Stanford. I think you have reason to feel cautiously optimistic about your chances at Stanford and also optimistic about your chances at Cornell Regular Decision. You are in an enviable position. Good luck! </p>

<p>REFERENCE:</p>

<p>Stanford Common Data Set: <a href="http://www.stanford.edu/home/statistics/#admission%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.stanford.edu/home/statistics/#admission&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Cornell Common Data Set: <a href="http://dpb.cornell.edu/documents/1000297.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://dpb.cornell.edu/documents/1000297.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

22

<p>
[quote]
EC's are only a minimal aspect of the admissions process, like extra frosting on the cake.

[/quote]

Confused,</p>

<p>By now you know, unless you are "NOT USING THEIR BRAINS" ;) that generalizations cannot be applied to all schools. I agree with your sentiments, but I disagree with your reasoning because the fact of the matter is that for SOME schools, EC's are VERY IMPORTANT and certainly not "minimal" by any means -- and especially if a school indicates relative importance of EC's.</p>

23

<p>Ahh NorCalDad.</p>

<p>I will reluctantly disagree with you again.</p>

<p>The thing is, OP, you said that Cornell is a close second. If it's really a very close second, then it means that you will be very happy at Cornell or Stanford. It won't REALLY matter if you get into Stanford or Cornell. The main thing is to get into one of the two right?</p>

<p>The way I see it, the best chance you have to get into one of the two is simply to apply Cornell ED. With Cornell ED you have a good chance of getting in. With Stanford SCEA and Cornell RD you only have a so-so chance of getting in. I believe for 2006 Cornell's ED was around 40% and RD was around 24%, so that's quite a bit of a difference.</p>

<p>Now, I would encourage you to apply for Stanford SCEA if these two things apply:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>You are concerned about the amount of financial aid you will receive and want to compare offers.</p></li>
<li><p>You honestly think that if you are accepted ED by Cornell, you will be really bothered because you never found out if you could have gotten into Stanford.</p></li>
</ol>

24

<p>V,</p>

<p>You make good points... once again... and since I like both schools, I'm only glad I'm not the one having to make the decision on this one. If I were the one making the decision, I would go with Stanford SCEA because I prefer the Northern California climate to the frigid clime of Ithaca and the Finger Lakes -- but that's just me. ;) I do think OP has a very good chance of being accepted to Cornell via RD, and that's a factor he should consider seriously. But no guarantees, eh?</p>

25

<p>confused_student...</p>

<p>I'm sorry, but stats aren't going to get a person into Stanford.</p>

<p>Do you think a 2400, valedictorian with no ECs will beat a 2100, 91th percentile student who was in the Olympics?</p>

<p>ECs are definitely not the "frosting". They're just as important as grades at schools like Stanford and the Ivy League.</p>

<p>UCs are all about stats.</p>

26

<p>Flippy - But he doesn't have no EC's, and he has just as good stats. He may not have been in marching band, but he's done stuff. Many colleges just want students to have done something. Only some, as I now see, consider it very important. And in some cases, if there is a student who appeals to a specific study at a university and they have GREAT test scores, a department insists on getting a specific student who may have no ECs. So yes, ECs are much less important than good grades and SATs at many colleges.</p>

<p>NorCalDad - Of the colleges I've looked at seriously, almost all of them have listed EC's as "Important". I did not know that Cornell considered them "very important".</p>

<p>Since that's the case though...that makes it seem like the OP would have a better chance at Stanford than Cornell, since they'll be seriously weighing his ECs. Though, with a good essay and recs, he'd probably still get into Cornell RD.</p>

<p>eta: Out of pure curiousity, I looked to see how each college in the Top 20 listed the value of ECs in the admissions process...as you can see, nearly 2/3 of them list EC's as either "Important" or "Considered". Only 8 list it as "Very Important", at the same level as academics. So yes, a majority do see ECs as something extra, and will value grades more. This is what I meant by my "extra frosting on the cake". It's great to have, but it's not going to make or break you necessarily...</p>

<p>Very Important: (8)</p>

<p>Cornell
Dartmouth
Duke
Emory
Rice
Vanderbilt
WashU
Yale</p>

<p>Important: (12)</p>

<p>Brown
Cal Tech
Columbia
John Hopkins
MIT
Northwestern
Notre Dame
Princeton
Stanford
UC Berkeley
U of Chicago
U Penn</p>

<p>Considered: (1)
Harvard (they consider everything equally though)</p>

27

<p>I went to Cornell for two years, then transferred to Stanford a few decades back, under the influence of my then-girlfriend. They're both fine schools. You really aren't going to spend the rest of your life kicking yourself if you chose one over the other, or if you go to another school altogether. Most people who graduate from a college look back with nostalgia, not with regret. (For the record, I'm more nostalgic about Cornell than Stanford.)</p>

28

<p>


</p>

<p>This is good advice. NorCalDad has some good comments and I think you should probably go SCEA Stanford.</p>

<p>Then, if you get rejected or deferred, make a big deal in your RD Cornell essays about Cornell being your first choice. One of the main reasons that Cornell has such a high ED acceptance rate is because they are seen as a "safety Ivy" and lose a lot of admitted students to schools like Harvard, Stanford, MIT, etc. So, in order to preserve their yield, they try to admit students who they think will attend. The best way for a student to indicate their desire to attend is a binding decision program like ED, which is why they do that and not EA like Yale or Stanford. Therefore, ED students have a higher admittance rate. If argue a really good case for Cornell being your first choice in RD, the difference in your chances for ED vs RD will be much smaller.</p>

29

<p>Thanks guys, I'll take your opinions into consideration. Man, this is confusing!</p>

<p>confused<em>student, of course I know that ivys aren't the end of all things and that I could very well get into other, great universities. But the thing is, next year will be the culmination of my ambitions for the last decade, and I want to feel euphoria when it's over, y'know? Besides, hell hath no fury like angry Chinese parents... ></em>></p>

<p>random1345, I wish I could show my interest, but since Cornell uses the common application, I don't think the other colleges I'm applying for using the common app would appreciate me talking about Cornell in the essay...</p>

30

<p>Ray, there are some wonderful, well-thought-out opinions here, but in the end, it may be best for you to go with your gut feelings and your personality.</p>

<p>Given identical situations, some people will make one decision and some will make another. And each of those decisions may be right for that particular person.</p>

<p>My daughter is in an academic magnet program, where many of the students face decisions similar to yours. Most will choose to apply ED/SCEA to the extreme reach school on their lists -- their Stanford equivalents -- because they can't bear going through life not knowing whether they could have been admitted to their dream school. For them, the risk involved in applying to their slightly-less-selective second-choice college -- their Cornell equivalent -- RD instead of ED is secondary. </p>

<p>A few students, though, cannot live with the thought of increasing their risk of rejection from their second-choice schools by applying to those schools RD instead of ED. For them, doing everything possible to ensure their acceptance at their Cornell-equivalent school takes priority over taking a shot at Stanford or its equivalent.</p>

<p>Different personalities, different choices. It's not a matter of right vs. wrong, in my opinion. It's a matter of who you are and how you see the world.</p>

31

<p>For the Common App, Cornell has a Supplement that requests an essay. You could do your whole "why I want to go to Cornell so badly" thing there.</p>

32

<p>I am not sure which college at Cornell the OP is interested in. If it's the College of Arts and Sciences, he (or she) needs to be aware that the RD acceptance rate for that particular college is around 20% this year, which is similar to Stanford's SCEA acceptance rate. So applying SCEA to Stanford and then RD to Cornell is less favorable than applying ED to Cornell.</p>

33

<p>I would like to point out just because Stanford lists ECs as "important" and Cornell lists them as "very important" DOES NOT mean OP would have a better chance at Stanford than Cornell. If you browse through the decision threads for Stanford, you will see most Stanford admits have amazing ECs, along with amazing stats. Keep in mind the strength of Stanford applicant pool is on par with HYP. I think what Stanford means is that there's less room to "compensate" relatively weak academic record with ECs. It doesn't mean you don't need amazing ECs; you will need very strong academic record AND ECs because many other applicants are strong in both.</p>

34

<p>Sam, I assume you may be commenting on my earlier post... I agree with what you say, and I did not say, nor imply, that the "OP would have a better chance at Stanford than Cornell"... in fact far from it. The OP has expressed his quandary of having to choose between two Early options, each of which has different implications for the rest of his applications strategy. I think he's searching hard to parse every facet of the scenarios before him -- and ultimately, he'll make the choice he feels most comfortable with. I agree with Marian that it may be a matter of a choice that his "gut" says is right for HIM (and, of course, there is really no universal right or wrong to the choice he ultimately makes). I did have a sense that he felt he wasn't competitive enough for Stanford SCEA, and judging by what I saw this past year, I think he has a solid if not an excellent chance. As well, I think he has a good chance at Cornell either ED or RD. </p>

<p>Fundamentally, if a student is applying ED to any school that is not clearly his No. 1 choice, then s/he needs to take a good look at the situation. If Cornell is a very "close second", then perhaps it doesn't matter much. I suppose I feel that the OP is looking for support to a decision he may have already made in his heart.</p>

35

<p>the problem with college admissions is when you are in a situation like this. you want to get into one of your top choices and have to decide if it should be at the cost of not applying to another (cornell ED over stanford SCEA). if you want to go to cornell more than anything in the world then apply ED. however, if you want to go to stanford that badly, just apply SCEA and take your chances. what colleges say about the differences between early and regular acceptance % is that there is alot of self selection for early (moreso than regular). the students are sure if they apply early they want to go and mostly have the stats to get in. colleges say if a student gets in early, he would have gotten in regular(which is mostly the case, colleges may admit students who would be "on the bubble" because they know they are the student's top choice). if you are deffered early, you probably wont get in regular either. </p>

<p>i have the same delema you do, having to decide if i want to apply to my 1st choice ED, or lowering my percentage chances and risking not getting in to apply to my 2nd choice SCEA. right now my first choice isnt miles ahead of my second, like it should be for an ED applicant. i personally dont know 100% where i want to go for 4 years, so ED never felt like it was for me, but i know that if i get in everywhere i apply (barring huge scholarships), right now i think i would pick my 1st choice over my second, but i dont know if i'll feel that way in april and may. right now im leaning towards applying to my second choice SCEA because i would rather know if i could get in to all the places im looking at, rather than maybe feeling some doubt or regret later on. </p>

<p>you only have one chance at applying to college so its better to apply to stanford SCEA than wonder in december if you get into cornell what would have happened if you tried stanford.</p>

36

<p>
[quote]
Ray, there are some wonderful, well-thought-out opinions here, but in the end, it may be best for you to go with your gut feelings and your personality.</p>

<p>Given identical situations, some people will make one decision and some will make another. And each of those decisions may be right for that particular person.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Good point. We can only help you so far. Ultimately it is up to you to make a decision. If I had to do it all over again, would I have applied to Cornell ED? Sure. But I don't regret not applying. That was the best decision for me, at that time, in that situation, knowing what I knew. I think the most important thing is to make a decision that you won't regret.</p>

37

<p>
[quote]
..judging by what I saw this past year, I think he has a solid if not an excellent chance

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Perhaps I am more on the conservative side. I probably wouldn't call his/her chance "solid". </p>

<p>You can compare his credentials with those on this SECA thread
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=123269%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=123269&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

38

<p>I agree. I would go with Cornell ED because it can genuinely increase your chances...your a solid candidate for acceptance. However, Stanford is a risk for anyone, and I don't believe EA will help your chances enough to risk the 'real' advantages Cornell ED would provide you. If you ask me, Cornell is a fine institution, and not enough below Stanford for the risk. Besides, if your rejected Cornell ED you probably had a good shot at being rejected Stanford EA, and can always apply there RD. Just my two cents...</p>

39

<p>I'm learning toward Cornell right now.... less essays.... >_></p>

<p>But I'm just scolding myself for not doing better. <sigh></sigh></p>

40

<p>What % of admits at top private schools go the EA route? That probably skews their yield rate up quite a bit...</p>