<p>which is better overall and specifically for a prelaw major?</p>
<p>I don't know about the prelaw major, but here's my take(keep in mind I've spent a summer at Cornell, and I've been involved at Columbia and have talked to students there). I'm focusing on the enviornment more, since the academics are basically on par give or take:
Cornell:
Pros:
- Awesome food(especially the hotel). I had a brunch buffet at the hotel. It was like $20 or something(maybe $15). Let me tell you, it was tremendous. And I'm a foodie. The brunch would have cost at least $50/plate, if not $100/plate in New York City. The dining halls were also very high quality. They make their own ice cream there, and have very good food.
- Close community(relative to Columbia). Because you're isolated in Ithaca, you pretty much hang out with a very large group of undergrads at parties, instead of going out to a nightclub, like you might do in NYC.
Cons:
- Very isolated. You're in the middle of upstate New York; there's not a TON of active nightlife outside of the university. One quote from a student there was something to the effect of "Your life is on campus. The campus is big, and there's lots to do, but your entire life will be on the campus"
- Very big school. 13,682 undergrads at Cornell, versus 6,809 at Columbia. May be a plus or minus for you depending on what you like.</p>
<p>Columbia:
Pros:
- VERY good undergrad Core Curriculum. In a word, the Core makes you cultured, giving you insight into why traditions have developed based on history. This is one of the main plusses about Columbia. If you don't like the Core, don't even send an application!
- You're in the middle of New York City! $2 gets you anywhere via subway, and there's a TON to do. You can go to countless meuseums for free(courtesy of the arts program at Columbia), you can go to hundreds of nightclubs, you can go see a concert at Madison Square Garden, you can do an internship during the school year at Morgan Stanley(e.x.); the possibilities are endless.
Cons:
- The food is downright horrendous(ok, maybe this is a hyperbole based on what I heard, but it's not great) on campus. However, you are in the middle of New York City with some fantastic restaurants around, so most students go out to eat a lot, which neutralizes this con.
- The campus is nonconventional- that is, it's not your typical let's-go-to-a-house-party-and-get-drunk type of school; it's more of a hang-out-with-a-close-bunch-of-friends-and-go-downtown type of school. In a more succinct way of saying it, Columbians are individualists; you won't see a ton of blatantly displayed school spirit at football games, like you may see on other campuses.</p>
<p>I hope that summarizes the pros/cons of each well. Let me know if you need clarifications or want to know more.</p>
<p>If you don't like the Core, don't even send an application!</p>
<p>Or...send an application and just spend the next four years protesting the Core!</p>
<p>Agreed with the points you've listed (but I don't know about prelaw either...I'm sure someone will). Though I should say that from what I've tasted, Columbia's on-campus food offerings are not terrible--in fact, when I did my overnight visit I'd probably have thought Columbia dining was great had I not just been on an overnight to Cornell two days before. Yes, Columbia's on-campus dining does pale in comparison to Cornell's (God I miss their brunch), but it's really not all that bad.</p>
<p>another thing for Columbia. there are many schools in close proximity to Columbia, Morningside is much a "college town." The demographic of students near Columbia is diversified to say the least. You meet many people with very different backgrounds, cultures, ethnicities, etc. etc. Cornell can't even come close in that respect.</p>
<p>specifically for law grad school prep, columbia hands down, the core has quite a bit to do with pre-law (much more than it does with science), and at least in Contemporary Civilization you learn about social, political, ethical and legal theory theory. I've found to be typical pre-law depts at columbia to be very strong - english, philosophy, poly sci, history, econ - i think columbia sets you up very well and there is a great pre-law culture as well as one of the finest law schools in the world right here. it'll also be significantly easier to interview and get internships here.</p>
<p>read the Helpful Threads thread stickied to the top of this forum. you'll see a lot of in-depth discussion on a lot of particulars of campus life and academics.</p>
<p>is cornell also a good feeder into law schools?</p>
<p>Cornell is a different school from Columbia. Considering that there really isn't a pre-law major, it all depends on what you want to do. If you want to study sciences such as physics, bio, comp sci, etc, you'll be better off at Cornell. Cornell's Arts and Sciences and ILR are very strong at placing into law school. I believe the acceptance rate for applicants from Cornell was close to 95%, with most going to places like Columbia Law, NYU Law, Cornell Law etc. Also, I'm not sure what the case is with Columbia, but I know for a fact that professors at Cornell's law school are very receptive to undergrads. I am a freshman and am going to be working with a professor in the law school on research and will eventually intern. Also, if you want to go to law school, Cornell's debate program is really great - I believe Columbia doesn't actually have one....</p>
<p>In terms of location, I'm pretty sure Columbia has us beat. However, our dorms are nicer, and our food is definitely better. Also, if you like nature, Ithaca is the place to be. If you like concrete, then NYC. lol.</p>
<p>Its tough to say which is better, because each is different. I am in Engineering, so I chose Cornell (for obvious reasons).</p>
<p>I would have to disagree with one of the above posters about diversity at Cornell. In fact, Cornell is one of the most diverse schools in the Ivy League because we focus on bringing in people with different backgrounds etc.</p>
<p>Columbia does have an APDA debate team...
Columbia's Law School is top 5. Cornell isn't in the top 10.
Columbia has grade inflation (i.e very good for law schools since 95% of your acceptance is contigent upon your GPA + LSAT) whereas Cornell has major grade deflation
Columbia is more "prestigious", especially known for its graduate programs</p>
<p>All else equal, at the end of the day Columbia will on average get you into a better law school because
1) The students who matriculate are on average more "intelligent" than Cornell's
2) The undergraduates have the resources of the law school right on one little campus
3) Internships throughout the year
4) the Core curriculum reinforces/develops strong writing/analytical skills that is ESSENTIAL for law school
5) Columbia is much better respected in terms of Law School (within the legal circle, the top 5 (HYSColumbiaNYU) are considered a LOCK for BIGLAW whereas the others are more dependent on your grades and such.</p>
<p>At the end of the day, all other things equal (including financial aid), go to Columbia.</p>
<p>The students who matriculate are on average more "intelligent" than Cornell's</p>
<p>^wow.....people are gonna have a hard time digesting that one</p>
1 Like
<p>Sorry I'll just come out and say it--</p>
<p>At top HS's (magnet HS's in particular), Cornell is essentially a safety for top students and very, very few of those supremely qualified candidates choose Cornell over any other Ivy League school.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Columbia does have an APDA debate team...
Columbia's Law School is top 5. Cornell isn't in the top 10.
Columbia has grade inflation (i.e very good for law schools since 95% of your acceptance is contigent upon your GPA + LSAT) whereas Cornell has major grade deflation
Columbia is more "prestigious", especially known for its graduate programs</p>
<p>All else equal, at the end of the day Columbia will on average get you into a better law school because
1) The students who matriculate are on average more "intelligent" than Cornell's
2) The undergraduates have the resources of the law school right on one little campus
3) Internships throughout the year
4) the Core curriculum reinforces/develops strong writing/analytical skills that is ESSENTIAL for law school
5) Columbia is much better respected in terms of Law School (within the legal circle, the top 5 (HYSColumbiaNYU) are considered a LOCK for BIGLAW whereas the others are more dependent on your grades and such.</p>
<p>At the end of the day, all other things equal (including financial aid), go to Columbia.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>First, Columbia's debate teams aren't very good..but that's besides the point, debate is debate I guess.</p>
<p>Secondly, Cornell's Law School still is considered one of the best in the country, and the things you do there, versus what you do at Columbia Law (If freshman even have the chance of going to classes in Columbia Law), will be pretty much the same. And, rankings don't really matter at that level.</p>
<p>Third, Cornell's grade deflation is one of the most respected things about it. People know that a Cornell gpa is hard earned and represents intelligence and committment. </p>
<p>Fourth, Columbia is NOT more prestigious than Cornell at the undergraduate level especially in the eyes of law school admissions officers. International recognition goes to Cornell hands down. If you want to base your definition of prestige on acceptance rate, I guess Columbia wins that one, but I don't think that's the only thing.</p>
<p>Fifth, you are COMPLETELY wrong about the intelligence of Columbia students versus Cornell students. For instance, try comparing a Fu student and a Cornell engineer...guess what Cornell Engineer (on average) > than Fu Engineer. Additionally, Cornell's pool is self selective specifically in the engineering school. Arts and Sciences has about a 14% acceptance rate. I'll agree, the stats of the Hotelies and Human Ecs may not be as high, but that is part of the diversity at Cornell and the unique programs we have.</p>
<p>Sixth, one can get internships at Cornell just as easily. There are specialized programs and advising departments for people who want to go to law school, yes, even in the ENGINEERING school.</p>
<p>Seventh, Columbia's core is a joke.</p>
<p>Eighth, I don't know how Columbia's law school even matters on the question of undergraduate programs, especially if the freshman don't have access to law school resources.</p>
<p>FINALLY, your post about Cornell being a safety to most top students - I have to disagree with you on that question. I know of numerous "top" students who have been rejected at Cornell, but accepted to places like Harvard etc. It happened to a friend of mine last year. Additionally, I know many kids this year, who were probably "top students" but were rejected at Cornell during the Early Decision round. If you want proof, just look at the threads in the Cornell forum. </p>
<p>I personally chose Cornell over Harvard, MIT, OOS full ride at UNC, Wharton, Full ride at Rice, Stern etc...</p>
<p>^^^ told you lol</p>
<p>Its not about "digesting" I just want to dispel misconceptions.</p>
<p>both very good schools, no compare</p>
<p>cornell is harder (CAS). hands down</p>
<p>
[quote]
which is better overall and specifically for a prelaw major?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I would pick a school based the "overall" aspect. They're totally different schools -- and both good ones -- and whether you want to be in Ithaca or NYC trumps this minutiae about which has better access to law school resources.</p>
<hr>
<p>And I have to call out the Cornell troll who has no clue what he's talking about:</p>
<p>
[quote]
Cornell's Arts and Sciences and ILR are very strong at placing into law school. I believe the acceptance rate for applicants from Cornell was close to 95%, with most going to places like Columbia Law, NYU Law, Cornell Law etc.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Um, every top college should have nearly 100% law school placement rate. Everyone gets "into law school"; just not always top ones.</p>
<p>"Most" at Cornell don't end up going to "places like" those you've listed. Ugrads from even HYP only have average LSATs of like 165. That means "most" Ivy grads aren't getting into "places like" those.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Secondly, Cornell's Law School still is considered one of the best in the country, and the things you do there, versus what you do at Columbia Law (If freshman even have the chance of going to classes in Columbia Law), will be pretty much the same. And, rankings don't really matter at that level.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Biggest bunch of BS ever. Rankings matter at this level. A typical law firm may look for, say, the top 25% at Columbia Law and the top 10% of Cornell Law. Cornell Law is not an elite law school relative to the law schools that are actually so.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Sixth, one can get internships at Cornell just as easily. There are specialized programs and advising departments for people who want to go to law school, yes, even in the ENGINEERING school.
[/quote]
Internships yes, but throughout the year? How many firms are there in Ithaca and how many firms are there in New York?</p>
<p>
[quote]
Third, Cornell's grade deflation is one of the most respected things about it. People know that a Cornell gpa is hard earned and represents intelligence and committment.
[/quote]
Law schools don't care about major or difficulty of program. Your GPA is the bottom line, so as pre-law, you'd benefit from grade inflation rather than deflation.</p>
<p>I'm not trolling - just so you know. The bottom line is, they are both GREAT schools, and its small things like location that should influence your decision, not the overall quality of the schools - because those are on par with each other.</p>
<p>Look at the statistics on the question of where grads go. Most of Cornell's law school applicants went to places like NYU, Columbia, Cornell etc. There are reports that I have read on this question. Also, law school admissions isn't exclusively based on LSAT, although it is a HUGE part, people with scores of sub 175 can get into top law schools, especially if they do well at a place like Cornell (> 3.7 gpa which is very much possible).</p>
<p>Additionally, I agree that there aren't internship opportunities in Ithaca, because well, its Ithaca, but during the summer the opportunities become the same. Also, as a freshman, I am working with a NYC law firm, despite being in Ithaca. There are alternate options.</p>
<p>Also, Cornell students still get good gpas - its not like we are destined to get gpas below 2.0 because that would just be ridiculous. The CoE is notorious for having the lowest GPAs, but I know people who have graduated with > 4.0 gpas from it. It may be difficult, but not impossible.</p>
<p>I apologize about the whole prestige thing, I don't know too much about the prestige of law schools, mainly because I haven't started researching, but I very much agree that Columbia Law is far more respected than Cornell Law, however I was simply discussing the opportunities available to undergrads. Cornell Undergrads who take classes and do research in Cornell Law school are going to be regarded the same as Columbia undergrads to who take classes and do research at Columbia Law. This is in the eyes of Law School Admissions officers, not employers. Obviously when it comes to graduating from a law school, Columbia is more highly regarded.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The bottom line is, they are both GREAT schools, and its small things like location that should influence your decision, not the overall quality of the schools - because those are on par with each other.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>agreed</p>
<p>
[quote]
Look at the statistics on the question of where grads go. Most of Cornell's law school applicants went to places like NYU, Columbia, Cornell etc. There are reports that I have read on this question.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Show me something proving that "most" Cornell undergrads who go to law school end up at the top 10-15 law schools. I'm sure a substantial minority of Cornell undergrads who end up at crappy law schools. That's the case with Columbia undergrads too.</p>
<p>"Law schools don't care about major or difficulty of program. Your GPA is the bottom line, so as pre-law, you'd benefit from grade inflation rather than deflation."</p>
<p>Thats complete BS. An applicants major or course of study and specifically the rigor and challenges posed by the selected major and program are vital in the law school application process. You dont benefit from grade inflation or deflation, you benefit from how hard you work. Law schools want applicants who have thoroughly demonstrated the ability to work in a difficult program or major. A 3.5 at Cornell is a very competitive gpa for grad school.</p>