Cornell vs Duke ED 2016?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Cornell University
1

<p>Cornell vs. Duke Early Decision?
Hello everyone,</p>

<p>First of all I would like to thank you in advance for coming to my thread and taking time to read and provide advice. This is beyond helpful and I am very grateful for this community.</p>

<p>In short, I am a rising high school senior, beginning to look into colleges. I am interested in majoring in most definitely sciences. Most likely biology, chemistry, biomedical engineering, neuroscience, psychology, or the like. As of now, like many other young inexperienced people, I see medical school in my future, so I would like to keep that in mind during my college search. However, it is also very important for me to go to an university with a wide variety of colleges, just in case I discover my passion for another subject. However, I am focusing on sciences because I am almost 100% sure that I will NOT major in literature, history, agriculture, etc etc.</p>

<p>As of now, I am most interested in Cornell and Duke as my top choice reaches. But I am still debating on which one I'd rather apply ED to. Obviously both have great academics, but very different charms. Do both schools have a higher ED acceptance rate vs RD? Because these schools would be reaches for me and I would love to increase my chances of getting in. It would be a dream come true. <3</p>

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<p>My Stats:</p>

<p>GPA Weighted: 3.93
GPA Unweighted: 3.65</p>

<p>SAT I (Super Score)- 2020 [I realize my SAT is weak, so will most likely be submitting only ACT scores with SAT II]
780 Math
640 Reading
600 Writing
8 Essay</p>

<p>ACT- 33
32 Writing
33 Math
33 Reading
34 Science
7 Essay</p>

<p>SAT II-
740 Math 2
740 Biology E
750 Chinese</p>

<p>Course Schedule-</p>

<p>Middle School
Honors Algebra I
Honors Geometry
Honors Spanish I</p>

<p>Freshman
Honors Algebra II
Honors Biology
Honors Language Arts
Honors Spanish II
American Gov/Health
Band</p>

<p>Sophomore
Honors Pre-Calculus
Honors Chemistry
Honors Language Arts
Honors Spanish III
AP World History (5)
Band</p>

<p>Junior
AP Calculus AB (first semester had a 79 unweighted and 86 weighted, worried about this)
AP Biology
AP Lang
On-level Physics
On-level US History
Band</p>

<p>Senior
AP Stat
AP Chemistry
AP Lit
AP Micro/Macro
PE/Internship
Band</p>

<p>ECs-</p>

<p>Club (# of years in by graduation)</p>

<p>MY TWO MAIN ECs ARE STUDENT COUNCIL AND MARCHING BAND, THE ONES THAT I AM MOST INVOLVED IN.</p>

<p>Student Council Representative (4)
National Honor Society (2)
Beta Club (4)
Marching Band (received varsity letter) (4)
Tutors in Action (2)
Winterguard (1)
Science Olympiad (1)
Pep Band (1)
Medical Society (1)</p>

<p>-regular volunteer at local library
-peer education at a local AIDs center
-part time job as of summer 2011</p>

2

<p>Apply ED only to your by-far number one choice, your one dream school, especially if you need any financial aid (otherwise you need to compare aid packages when you don’t care which school you attend).</p>

3

<p>srw999 says: From where I come from however, the Duke brand name edges out Cornell even though its an ivy, and Duke has a more collegiate feel to it.</p>

<p>Where do you come from? I’m on the east coast, here, Cornell 's reputation edges out Duke’s!!!</p>

<p>If I were in OP’s shoes I would apply to Cornell ED – Wait, I was in ED’s shoes once and DID apply to Cornell ED!!!</p>

<p>Ok, seriously both are excellent schools, both have beautiful campuses. The schools have a very different feel (I wouldn’t say Duke’s is more collegiate – but then I really don’t know what srw999 means by this). Many students in fact choose Cornell over Duke, and others choose Duke over Cornell.</p>

<p>This is honestly one of those cases where there no wrong answer (I’d still apply to Cornell ED over Duke, though!!!).</p>

4

<p>You should only pursue ED option if you are dead set on attending that specific institution. Have you visited either school? Make sure that you want to spend next 4 years of your life at Cornell/Duke before submitting ED. The both schools are similar academically, and in that both are in the middle of nowhere. Personally, I wouldn’t ED to either school if I was back in high school. (I would apply RD and compare financial aid offers from different schools, and pick the one that offers the best aid)</p>

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<p>Getting into a medical school is not a function of where you did undergrad. Also bear in mind, med school would cost you a ton of money, so you don’t wanna go to a college that would cost you a lot.</p>

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<p>In my experience, both schools are roughly equal in reputation.</p>

5

<p>How on earth is “Duke more collegiate?” </p>

<p>When I visited Duke, it was extremely hot and humid… not to mention there were a bunch of ESPN vans driving around for some sport or another. Sports (watching them, not playing them) were one of the main topics of discussion during the tour I took. When common people talk about Duke, they say it has a good basketball team. </p>

<p>When I visited Cornell the campus had a much more temperate climate (much more condusive to studying and thus more collegiate) than Duke. Furthermore, academics were the main focus of the tour and info session; to me, Cornell felt like much more of an “academic powerhouse.” When common people (not that their opinion should matter much, but still, I think it is an indication of an Institution’s priorities) talk about Cornell, they say “wow… people get a really good education there.” </p>

<p>Additionally, Cornell is surrounded by the beautiful small city of Ithaca, whereas Duke is surounded by Durham… not so nice.</p>

<p>Personally, I would go to Cornell over Duke any day; I think Cornell has a more intellectual feel (granted, both schools have outstanding academic reputations and first rate grad school placement – you can’t go wrong with either school).</p>

6

<p>is this a serious question ? Duke has a far superior medical school and a renowned pre med program. Cornell is not quite at the same level as Duke and its ivy peers Penn, Brown and Dartmouth, especially in terms of pre med and business. Duke is more prestigious in the mid west (where i was born) and is looked upon by high school counsellors as a legitimate top flight school. Cornell is a relative safety for students who get accepted to Duke and Penn (both 12% admit rates). Cornell is notoriously difficult and extremely cut throat Duke is more laid back and well rounded. My vote goes to Duke without a semblance of a doubt. Duke vs Brown or Penn would be a far less one sided contest but Cornell is just not in that league yet (for undergrad excluding engineering). The Cornell students seem to be incredibly flustered by this comparison and this is evident in their replies, it is just a manifestation of their inherent insecurity which arises from being the undisputed worst ivy league school in the nation. ED at Duke if you have the finances and feel that it is the right fit. I would also recommend Penn Brown and Princeton.</p>

7

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<p>No one cares.</p>

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<p>What? All ‘premed’ are about the same. You can go to a second tier state college, do well, and still get into good medical schools. There is no such thing as “superior premed” program. And, if by business, you mean placement into IB or consulting, that too is largely a function of an individual’s ability, not school. As long as you go to a decently ‘targeted’ school, the rest is up to an individual.</p>

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<p>Sorry, I found Cornell to be not cut throat at all and the level of difficulty isn’t that bad. There are some courses that were near impossible, yet, the majority of courses were doable.</p>

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<p>In college, no one cares about the ‘prestige’ of other schools or the ‘prestige’ of Cornell compared to others. If you are a loser and talk about those things all day, I am sorry. At Cornell, many people are busy with work, chasing after girls, drinking, and partying. And, no one cares if Duke has a stronger ‘premed’ program than Cornell.</p>

<p>Edit: I am a city person and I would HATE to attend a school like Duke, which is a southern school located in a dump of a city. That said, if I were to attend college again, I probably wouldn’t choose Cornell, either. I would definitely go for Penn, Columbia, or NYU.</p>

8

<p>I wonder why a Penn graduate is going around Cornell’s forums. Oh, I know why, because he loves bashing Cornell. That being said, if the OP has trouble deciding between Duke and Cornell, he shouldn’t be applying ED at all.</p>

9

<p>Both are good choices, and your education quality will roughly be the same at either school. Honestly, when you get into the top-tier, differences are fairly minute. Taking a biology class at Cornell isn’t going to give you a better grasp of biology than taking one at Duke - once schools get to a certain point, they simply hit a wall so to speak, and the school no longer matters (for most basic classes, etc). </p>

<p>Now, that being said, you need to compare some OTHER aspects. I went to Cornell, but I’m from the suburbs of Raleigh, so I do know a little bit about Duke and the area as well.</p>

<p>City - Durham vs. Ithaca. For the city itself, Ithaca beats Durham simply due to the fact that Durham is a fairly dangerous city and kind of run down. That being said - if you have a car and want to drive 15-20 minutes, having Raleigh and the entire Triangle metropolitan area nearby is MUCH better than being in the middle of NOWHERE like in Ithaca. Upstate NY is a fairly empty, spaced out, and run down area, whereas the Triangle region is a hip, fast growing, brand new area with a lot more options. Better malls, dining, etc. If you want to go clothes shopping at Duke, you can easily find top notch stores (7 for all mankind, Armani, etc) in the Raleigh area. With Ithaca, you either shop at urban outfitters or old navy. But again, most people stay close to the college and don’t have a car - and in that case, Ithaca easily beats Durham.</p>

<p>Climate - someone mentioned how “temperate” Cornell is - but that’s during the summer months. You’re not even in school during summer. The tables are turned during the MAJORITY of the time you’re in school. Cornell starts becoming cold around the end of October, and doesn’t really warm up again until the end of April. For many of these months, the Duke students will still be wearing t-shirts and light jackets. For the really cold winter months, Duke will still be cold, but nothing like Ithaca, where wind chill brought the temp down to -30 this year and I still had to walk to class. Classes are almost never canceled due to snow, and you will yourself walking the huge campus 15 minutes+ between classes freezing.</p>

<p>Students - I’ve been to Duke many times, and the students are pretty snobby. There’s a lot of old money there, and it’s sort of the top choice for a lot of WASPs (as per wikipedia: White Anglo-Saxon Protestant or WASP is an informal term, often derogatory or disparaging, for a closed group of high-status Americans usually of British descent with a Protestant background who supposedly wield disproportionate financial and social power). As such, there will be a lot of students through mommy and daddy’s money around and driving their BMW’s to school. This happens at Cornell as well, but the attitude is different. At Duke, it’s cool to flaunt your money - at Cornell, you’d be seen as a ******bag. So the mentality is much different at Cornell, resulting in a more laid back student body. There is also a little more diversity at Cornell, and it’s easy to find a crowd you get along with.</p>

<p>Pre-med - Doesn’t make a difference honestly, unless your hoping for Duke or Cornell Medical school. I know that Cornell medical school grants automatic interviews to students of the undergrad college, so that helps, not sure about Duke. But for every other medical school, they simply aren’t going to say “Well these two apps are identical but this one went to Duke and this one to Cornell…” Once you get into this top tier, the differences are mitigated. </p>

<p>Good luck either way. Personally, all things considered, I’d choose Cornell despite my love of the Triangle area and my goal of returning there as soon as I graduate.</p>

10

<p>Look, no disrespect to Duke, Penn or any other schools, but what you are saying makes no sense. I chose Cornell over Dartmouth as a transfer and many others here turned down Penn CAS and Engineering. The opportunities offered to Cornell grads in business, medicine, law, etc. are highly similar to what you will find at these schools. I am an i-banker and knew that this is what I wanted to do, so I certainly did some research before coming here. If you look at the alumni network at Cornell, it is incredible in both quantity and quality. My summer analyst and full-time analyst classes had excellent Cornell representation and I constantly run into alumni in senior positions at places that everyone seems to worship. Most of my friends from schools went through the same “feeder” mill (banking, consulting, top b-school, top law school, etc) that grads from other schools aim to enter. </p>

<p>It is true that the bottom 25% or so of Cornell’s class is probably not on the level of any other Ivy league schools (or Duke), so on the margin, it is easier to backdoor into the school. That’s true…but all it means is that we still graduate a class of 2,500 people of the same caliber as everyone else. BTW, in my top 5 MBA program, Cornell was one of the most represented schools (Penn was higher and Duke lower). </p>

<p>The Cornell student body probably has at least a 75% overlap with the rest of the non-HYP ivies, so I would not flatter yourself with the “safety” language. Yes, it is a bit easier to get into some of the schools here, but I don’t see how that changes a qualified applicant’s career prospects. Every door of consequence is wide open from here and only someone who is either uninformed or terribly insecure would argue otherwise.</p>

11

<p>Both Cornell and Duke offer great opps. Just go to the place where you feel more comfortable. That will determine your fate more than anything else. If you are a pre-med, then you will need high grades, MCATs and strong research experience. Unless Duke has some major grade inflation in pre-med (that would be a huge factor as Cornell is brutal that way) then it is all just about your performance.</p>

12

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<p>This isn’t true.</p>

<p>But, for purposes of premed, these two schools are essentially equivalent.</p>

13

<p>That’s what I was told by my pre-med advisor at Cornell.</p>

14

<p>Either you misunderstood or your adviser is clueless. </p>

<p>Cornell’s medical school is tiny (about 100 per graduating class). Cornell’s undergrad pumps out 470 applicants a year, most of whom are probably applying to the med school. The medical school can’t afford to interview all of those applicants, even if they don’t interview a single applicant from the rest of the country. </p>

<p>For example, I received 13 interviews, including from 5-6 med schools ranked higher than Cornell’s. I received interviews from Mt. Sinai, Columbia, and NYU, the other 3 Manhattan med schools and went to NYC twice to interview. And I still didn’t receive an interview from Cornell’s med school. It’s hardly a slam dunk to interview at Weill.</p>

15

<p>Same here. Never got an interview at Cornell med school. Eventually attended NYU. Cornell is one of the most selective medical schools in the country, they interview very few of the Cornell premeds.</p>

16

<p>I appreciate NYC0205’s post. He explains in a lucid manner how some Cornell students may not be of the same calibre as penn duke or dartmouth grads, but goes on to elaborate on the many aspects that make Cornell a fabulous research university. I would like to reiterate the fact that although Cornell is less selective and at the undergrad level less prestigious than its peers, it is still one of the finest universities in the world with an excellent placement rate into good graduate schools. So in conclusion I urge you to attend the school which best fits your personality because any differences in perceived prestige or quality at this level are marginal and not worth analyzing in detail. However, I would argue that HPYSM have a significant amount of international prestige that distinguishes then from the rest of the ivy league and Duke; so if you can attend any of the super elites over their less well known peers then do so.</p>

17

<p>Dartmouthman’s post is a little pro-Dartmouth - I wonder why? lol</p>

<p>Anyway, Cornell may not have the same prestige in european countries, but it’s certainly more well known and prestigious in asian countries than schools such as Dartmouth.</p>

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<p>I think that whenever someone thinks of Dartmouth, Brown, Columbia, Penn, Cornell, Duke, Northwestern, Chicago, Hopkins, Amherst, Williams, Georgetown etc…the impression is…excellent school, probably a smart kid…there are some prestige differences between them, but each school is considered as a feeder ground of many excellent candidates and none elicit a “wow” factor as very few students choose these places over HYPSM on a standalone basis. </p>

<p>When you think of HYPSM (I would add Caltech)…the thought is “wow”…without the rationalizations…the reality is that given the competitive nature of admissions, there are very high overlaps between the top, top tier and the schools that immediately follow, but I do think that they are perceived differently and the opportunity set for an enterprising student may be somewhat better from HYPSM…</p>

<p>However, this analysis is also a highly theoretical “all things held equal” argument which is never really the case. People are different and whoever evaluates you will see the whole candidate rather than just the school…and even with HYPSM, the name alone won’t save you as there are so many great individuals across the spectrum of top schools. I think that as long as one can excel to his maximum ability at a school and show that ability to others, then that is what really will drive the outcome…as all of the Top 15 will give you a legitimate opportunity for a great post-grad opportunity. The rest is really up to you.</p>

<p>For what it is worth, I really liked Dartmouth when I visited it. It is a beautiful place and seems to have a great campus community. I just liked the breadth and social diversity of Cornell and felt a lot more comfortable there. I loved it there and would gladly make the same choice again. For any student who is fortunate to have a decision between such schools, I would suggest just going with your gut. There are many happy and miserable people in both places.</p>

19

<p>nyc0205, just curious, u mind to share what position u work at your bank? (associate, vice president, etc) I am asking because I wanted to hear how competitive it is to stay at I-bank long term. I know that banks have leveraged ‘up or out’ structure. So, how competitive is it to move up the ladder? </p>

<p>I will be attending a top law school soon and plan on working in Biglaw transactional (M&A or capital markets). And, due to my growing interest in finance, I am toying with the idea that in case i don’t like being a lawyer, I should go for switching out to I-banking. Would you say that this is recommendable? and, what position do these ex-lawyers tend to come into i-banks as? Thx in advance</p>

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<p>Congrats on your acceptance. It is a great accomplishment and I hope that you have a wonderful experience. Pretty much everyone that I know who has gone to law school enjoyed the experience (practicing law is a different matter). </p>

<p>I am an MD (recent) at a boutique firm. Started at a bulge bracket and then made the switch a few years out. Bulge brackets are highly structured places that are more focused on servicing and expanding existing client relationships by managing the bank’s resources (people, risk capital, research, etc.) whereas boutiques let you move up much faster if you can show the ability to source new clients through actionable ideas. I think that I definitely fit the latter mold and am fortunate to enjoy what I do.<br>
Big banks do not really have an up or out policy. There are plenty of people there that have no chance of being promoted to MD that are allowed to stay at VP/Director level as long as they are competent processors. The top MDs are always trying to keep their hands on as many clients as possible. Since that requires constant processing, there will always be room for a trustworthy, competent person who can work 24/7 and run day-to-day pitchbooks, data rooms, and similar tasks. </p>

<p>The reason that people often leave if they get bypassed for MD is because they feel humilated and they want to go to a place where they are not in that position. With that said, the MD promotion is really all about politics. The reason is that a very small proportion of MDs at the large firms have any kind of standalone relationships and are just better paid employees. These relationships are all institutional and as long as the guy is competent, it rarely matters who does the calling (with some exceptions of course) because all you are doing is offering a purely institutional product. These days, the relationships with the large corporates are swung by institutional capital commitments (think loans and other capital guarantees) rather than by creative ideas of individual bankers like they were in the 80s. Thus, when you go to visit a super-large client (think GE), there is a good chance that along with you (the coverage banker) you are also bringing at least 3-4 other MDs to represent the firm. It is pretty hard to stand out (or screw up for that matter) in that scenario. So, essentially, becoming an MD at a big firm is about working like a maniac, showing just enough promise, and most importantly, not posing a threat to anyone of consequence. Most groups, even the best ones, have maybe 1 or 2 real bankers….the rest of the MDs are very average guys who know how to play politics. </p>

<p>In terms of switching from law, there are many people who have done it and probably many more who would like to do so. Since you are just entering law school, I would advise you to consider taking some classes at the business school to see if you like finance. If it is interesting, then I would advise you to go straight into banking (or another finance job), because chances are that you will be looking to make that switch in a few years and you might as well not lose time. To stay a lawyer, you have to love the law, and most corporate finance lawyers do not fall into the category. Most law associates who want to switch into banking lose a lot of years of tenure when they make the change. I have several friends who made the switch and they got no credit for 4-5 years of work and had to start as 1st or 2nd year associates. That is a long time to lose especially considering the brutal work environment. There are senior law partners who switch but that is a whole different beast as they already have existing relationships and they just come in as MDs. </p>

<p>To make it easier to switch, you should look into the JD/MBA option as well. It is only an extra year and being fully engaged with the business school should make it much easier to find something in finance. I do not mean to dismiss law at all, it is just that you should think hard about what you really enjoy so that you don’ t unnecessarily complicate your career path. Best of luck to you in whatever you decide.</p>