Cornell vs Penn vs Dartmouth vs Cal

College Search & Selection
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<p>Can any current students at Cornell, Penn, Dartmouth, and Cal comment on the feel and academics of these schools? I'd especially like to hear from the perspective of undergraduates majoring in physics or mathematics.</p>

<p>I live in the Bay Area and want to go somewhere new for college, so Cal's proximity and size detract from its appeal. But its physics faculty and facilities are wonderful, and both its demographics and offered courses are very diverse. I also got the Regents' Scholarship, which is a perk. However, I'm looking for an vibrant, intellectual learning community with small class sizes and close relationships with professors, and the Ivy League is stronger in that respect.</p>

<p>I worry that a school like Dartmouth, with its smaller size and secluded location, will limit my opportunities. I want to get involved with physics research early on, take courses in esoteric branches of math and physics, and have the ability to talk with a wide range of professors. I'm also a little concerned about its focus on Greek life and drinking. However, I'd like a liberal arts education that teaches me how to think critically. Dartmouth's close-knit community appeals to me as well. I also know that it would be easier getting a research position because the physics major isn't as big as something like the social sciences or economics.</p>

<p>I've heard some bad things about Cornell and am worried about it being too stressful or competitive, but at an admitted students reception, an Engineering alumnus changed my mind, and emphasized the campus's physical beauty and its strong alumni networking. Also, Carl Sagan. :)</p>

<p>I'm unsure about Penn's focus on business and pre-med—the College of Arts and Sciences seems second to those fields. When I visited, however, I loved the campus and the feel. I also adore Gothic Revival architecture.</p>

<p>I've visited Cal and Penn, but neither Cornell nor Dartmouth. I feel like I could enjoy myself in both an urban and a more rural environment. I love the outdoors but would also appreciate the greater social opportunities in a city like Philadelphia.</p>

<p>As someone who is very intellectually curious, I know that I could do well anywhere. However, I'm very indecisive. While I'm extremely grateful for my options, at the same time I'm spending so much time researching and trying to sway my opinion before the May 1 deadline that my nails are bitten to the quick. At each admitted student event, I fall in love with a new school, and it's getting difficult to differentiate between them. I'm hoping you guys can help me resolve this!</p>

<p>I posted the same thing in the Science Majors Forum, btw.</p>

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<p>

Penn’s College of Arts and Sciences is NOT second to business and pre-med at Penn. It is, by far, the largest undergraduate school at Penn with 6400 students (the vast majority of whom are NOT pre-med), and is also the oldest and most historic of Penn’s schools (dating back to Penn’s origins as the College of Philadelphia in the mid-1700s). Additionally, the College is home to many liberal arts departments ranked among the top 10 or top 20 in the nation, including physics and math. Penn very much views the College as the heart and soul of the university, and treats it as such. While Penn also excels in fields such as business (Wharton), nursing, etc., at the undergraduate level, it is definitely NOT at the expense of the College and liberal arts.</p>

<p>I’ve sent a message about this thread to a knowledgeable and informative poster here on CC called Poeme, who is currently a senior and a physics major at Penn, and hopefully she will also post here.</p>

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<p>I was a physics major at Cornell, a million years ago.
It was hard. Because physics is hard. Not “competitive” per se, but hard.
It’s very simple. If you can do the problems on exams, you get good grades, If you can’t, you don’t.
I don’t believe you will find this materially different at the physics departments any of the schools you are looking at.
The students who deserved it when I attended went on to the best grad programs in the country.
The ones who didn’t, didn’t.</p>

<p>There is no free lunch, IMO. IIRC the last time I saw average grade reports, Dartmouth average grades were lower than Cornell’s.There was a guy just trumpeting on the Cornell board about how tough Berkeley undergrad was graded. He thought that was a good thing.</p>

<p>One thing, between physics and engineering there are a ton of relevant upper-level courses at Cornell. Besides the physics program at Cornell CAS, there are an equal number of people majoring in Applied and Engineering Physics in the Engineering school. There are courses of interest offered in both programs, and of course you can take those courses. then there are other courses in various engineering departments, eg Materials Science.</p>

<p>I don’t know anything about majoring in math, though I took a lot of math courses.</p>

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<p>Berkeley has the strongest Physics and Maths departments amongst the schools you’re choosing from.</p>

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<p>Net price at each school for you? Debt (if any) for each school?</p>

<p>For academics, you can try looking in the course catalogs and faculty rosters of each school to see what is offered for in-major electives and what faculty research interests are.</p>

<p>If you are ranking focused, Berkeley, Cornell, and Penn are all ranked highly in physics and math (apparently in that order, but the differences between the three are probably insignificant compared to academic fit factors as noted above), with Dartmouth significantly lower.</p>

<p>On-line schedules can let you know how big class sizes are. Berkeley frosh/soph level physics and math courses can be large, but the honors versions of those courses are considerably smaller. Do not assume that Cornell and Penn frosh/soph level courses will be small without checking their schedules. Dartmouth tends to have smaller class sizes, but some frosh/soph level courses can be up to 100 students or so.</p>

<p>You can get a broad liberal arts education at any of these schools.</p>

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<p>But it’s not likely that you’ll pick someplace that you haven’t even so much as visited, is it?
Choosing where to visit, or where not to, is in effect a pre-selection selection, is it not?</p>

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<p>How strong is the Classics dept at PENN?</p>

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<p>I don’t think OP is looking at Classics.</p>

<p>OP, have you browsed the Cornell forum? </p>

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<p>Sorry, for hijacking the thread! I apologize.</p>