Cornell vs. Swarthmore vs. Hopkins vs. Tufts...

Colleges and Universities A-Z Cornell University
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<p>My son has been accepted to Cornell, Swarthmore, Hopkins, Tufts, Washington U., and other schools. He doesn't know where he'd like to go.</p>

<p>He is going to major in engineering of some form and he is very socially conscious and progressive -- not just interested in getting an engineering job at a huge corporation right after graduating. (Not that there is anything wrong with that for some folks.)</p>

<p>Cornell and Swarthmore (which has an engineering dep't) are opposite extremes in terms of size.</p>

<p>We visited Swarthmore yesterday and they kept talking about the school's commitment to social justice. Very impressive.</p>

<p>We have visited Cornell twice now, including today, and could not find anyone involved with the engineering school's programs on environmental sustainability or projects in developing countries. But there are lots of nice students who gave him a warm welcome but they seem only interested in their engineering training as a vocational degree.</p>

<p>And then there are Tufts and Hopkins..</p>

<p>So with this limited info (and not counting financial aid issues) does anyone have any feedback?</p>

<p>Where would you go or suggest he go?</p>

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<p>Well then I guess you must have missed ESW tabling at Ho Plaza today then?</p>

<p>I think you would also be interested in looking at
<a href=“https://confluence.cornell.edu/display/AGUACLARA/Home/[/url]”>https://confluence.cornell.edu/display/AGUACLARA/Home/&lt;/a&gt; and [Cornell</a> MineSweeper - Home](<a href=“http://minesweeper.engineering.cornell.edu/]Cornell”>http://minesweeper.engineering.cornell.edu/) that I could think out of my head right now.</p>

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<p>Yes, we did, unfortunately. I am not complaining – this is too serious a consideration for that – it’s just that no Cornell engineering student out of the dozen or so we heard from or met (including the seven or eight on the panel this afternoon who answered questions for nearly an hour) seemed interested in anything like AguaClara. So are the AguaClara students a small niche? </p>

<p>Will a young man who is more likely to protest Exxon Mobile rather than go work for it fit in at Cornell?</p>

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<p>The problem with Cornell Days is that the campus is so diverse that it is often possible for an admitted student to miss their “niche” on campus – even if it is a rather large niche. </p>

<p>You ended up interacting with around 10 students out of over 3000 Cornell engineer students – a really small sample. Not only that, but the students who tend to get involved in programs like Cornell Days tend to be the pre-professional crowd, and not the activist crowd. In fact, the organizers of Cornell Days tend to like to downplay the activist crowd due to the fact that they can often try to embarrass the University (e.g. the amount of money Cornell has received from places like ExxonMobil).</p>

<p>Needless to say, I don’t think I think it is any coincidence that the founder of Engineers for a Sustainable World attended Cornell. Nor do I think it is any coincidence that Ithaca is routinely labeled as one of the most green and liberal cities in the country.</p>

<p>And I would say that there are likely more students at Cornell who would protest ExxonMobil than all of the students at Swarthmore combined. You will find them in the engineering departments, as well as in the natural resource and labor programs as well. There’s 150 students involved in the Solar Decathalon alone:</p>

<p>[About</a> Us: Team | Cornell University Solar Decathlon 2009](<a href=“http://cusd.cornell.edu/team.html]About”>http://cusd.cornell.edu/team.html)</p>

<p>If you haven’t checked out the Sustainability Hub, that will contain more information:</p>

<p>[The</a> Sustainability Hub](<a href=“http://www.rso.cornell.edu/sustainabilityhub/Related%20Courses.html]The”>http://www.rso.cornell.edu/sustainabilityhub/Related%20Courses.html)</p>

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<p>Wow. That is a really great reply – very helpful. Thank you. It rings true. </p>

<p>But what makes you say that about Swarthmore students not being inclined to protest ExxonMobil?</p>

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<p>When did I ever say that?</p>

<p>The average Swartmore student will be more likely to protest than the average Cornell student, it is just that there are absolutely more activist-minded students at Cornell than at Swarthmore.</p>

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<p>Rickenbacker360V, I hope there are a lot of different types of students in engineering. My son is going to start at Cornell in the fall -thought about Swarthmore but decided that it was perhaps too small and intense without offering the variety of students/activities that Cornell would. But I would not want my son to go work for Exxon either if he could do otherwise :)! Cornell I believe is partnered with EWF -engineers without frontiers …but frankly if he makes it through engineering anywhere with sanity and good humor intact, I’ll take whatever choices !! We had also looked at John Hopkins and Tufts…it boiled down to quality/financing… good luck!</p>

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<p>Funny here is an excerpt from my most recent alumni mailing:</p>

<p>“April 22nd is Earth Day, and the Cornell Alumni Association of Westchester is pleased to welcome Professor Frank DiSalvo, the Director of Cornell’s Center for a Sustainable Future, to Westchester for a stimulating dinner presentation on What Is Cornell Doing About Sustainability? Professor DiSalvo will also discuss what we as individuals can do to help make a sustainable future a reality.”</p>

<p>Here’s the one I received a few days before that:</p>

<p>"Cornell Event on Critical World Issues
All Cornell alumni are invited to see how Cornell and the College of Agriculture and Life Sciences is Making a World of Difference in some of the world’s critical areas impacting many of us.</p>

<p>Saturday, April 18, 2009
Ithaca, NY</p>

<p>Please join us for engaging presentations and discussions on:
• Renewable Energy
• Climate Change
• International Agriculture, Food, Economic, and Environmental Systems
• Cell and Structural Biology- New Life Sciences
• Science and Business
• Information Sciences</p>

<p>[etc} "</p>

<p>Here’s another recent one I couldn’t make:</p>

<p>"Cornell Silicon Valley’s (CSV) Annual Presidential Event, CSV10, together with the 26th Annual College of Engineering Alumni Association (CEAA) Conference and the CSV Entrepreneurship@Cornell Annual Event, presents Sustainable Energy Systems: Investing in our Future. All alumni, parents, students, and faculty are invited to attend this unique combination of three annual Cornell events on March 12 at the Computer History Museum, Mountain View, California. "</p>

<p>As for where he should go, that’s a matter of personal preference.</p>

<p>If your son: i) actively wants an extensive liberal arts education, and is willing to sacrifice breadth and depth of engineering options to achieve this end; ii) does not so much mind the possibility that he might encounter social or academic constraints due to the school’s small size, so long as he can achieve a highly demanding, first-class liberal arts education;</p>

<p>then Swarthmore is an outstanding choice for him. But there should be no mistake that there will certainly be a tradeoff, in terms of the breadth and depth of offerings in the field of engineering he can explore and pursue there. This will be apparent by simply counting the courses offered on the registrar’s course listings at each college, and also counting the number of engineering professors. It is hard to learn what is not being taught.</p>

<p>Cornell will have larger classes. the tradeoff is that they will have many, many more courses to choose from, more areas to explore. Maybe worse for lower class years, better for upper class years.</p>

<p>Liberal arts colleges tend to differentiate themselves by particular themes/personality types they appeal to. Universities tend to be more diverse, in every way really, but in this regard as well. There will be people at Cornell with various attitudes towards social justice or sustainable energy. Almost certainly there will be more individuals at Cornell than at Swarthmore who hold these items to be quite important. But there will be others who don’t care. </p>

<p>Unlike a liberal arts college, there may not be such a need for political or social litmus tests to govern whether a university is appealing, because once you get there you can find your large group of like minded individuals. At a small college, if that group is not overtly highly represented at the college you might be quite lonely there. There are fewer voices present and less room to maneuver socially.</p>

<p>As an engineering student at Cornell your son will have opportunities to explore interests in the liberal arts, but less extensively than if enrolled at a liberal arts college. He could also explore other areas that are completely unavailable at most liberal arts colleges, as provided by other of cornell’s undergraduate colleges. There are interesting and worthwhile courses offered at all of them.</p>

<p>So the tradeoff is : more extensive training and exposure to the field of engineering, more courses to choose from in every area period, and a much more room to maneuver socially- vs. smaller classes, a full liberal arts education, and a more homogeneous student body in various respects, eg politically .</p>

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<p>Thank you for your replies everyone. Very helpful. </p>

<p>Any more suggestions?</p>

<p>What would you do? </p>

<p>If you or your child were faced with similar choices what did you decide and why?</p>

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<p>I decided pretty early in the game that I only wanted to be at a research university. There’s a pretty big distinction between Cornell and Swarthmore in terms of size and feel, and it shouldn’t be hard to figure out if one wants to study engineering at a large research university or a small liberal arts college.</p>