Hello all, now that I have heard back from all my colleges, the only thing left to do is choose and I really need some help choosing (please). Right now, my family and I have narrowed it down to Cornell, USC, and U Penn. I’ve crossed off U Penn because my sister goes there so I would strongly prefer not to go there, so it’s between Cornell (HumEc) and USC now. Both are giving me around the same amount of aid, so finances aren’t that much of an issue.
My intended major for USC is public policy and for Cornell, Policy Analysis & Management. I would like to go to law school in the future so an undergrad school that would better prepare me for a top law school (and won’t wreck my GPA + will provide more internship opportunities) would be great! I’m from the Midwest, so I’ve never lived in LA or Ithaca before but I really like big cities. As of right now, after my studies I would really like to live in LA, so I’d think that experiencing something different by living in NY would be good for me, however since the Trojan Alumni Network is really good in LA, passing up on USC might be a mistake. At the same time, I feel since Cornell’s alumni network is more widespread it would be easier if I ever decided to move cities. I visited USC in December and I really loved it and I don’t know if I’ll be able to visit Cornell, but also I don’t want to always be wondering what my life would be like if I hadn’t passed up an Ivy League education. I’m sorry this is so rambly I’m just having a really hard time deciding. Please help!
USC:
Location
Atmosphere
Better LA alumni network
Cornell:
Ivy League prestige
More widespread alumni network
Proximity to NYC
Thank you in advance! I have also posted this in the USC section.
@rranderson You have quite the decision to make. Congrats on all your acceptances. That’s an impressive list. It really boils down to fit, employability after graduation, and geographic preference. For all the people who say it doesn’t matter what city your college is in, they are flat wrong. I visited a ton of schools before applying and just the look and feel of the campus and surrounding cities made me immediately mark a bunch off the list - even highly ranked ones like Lehigh, Harvey Mudd, Rensselaer, and Virginia. Some schools might have great reputations, but consider quality of life each and every day. At Cornell for instance, are you ok with waking up for class and walking up a big hill from freshman dorms in -20 degrees? Cornell is much more than that, but for some people its a shock. Or in LA, are you okay dealing with traffic, possible earthquakes, and being a long way from home? Both schools have tons of advantages too. Cornell is more than just cold weather - campus is like a national park, and USC is more than LA traffic - they have great sports teams. It’s too bad you didn’t visit Cornell. I think that would have tipped the scales in their favor and your decision wouldn’t be as tough. You’ll do great wherever you choose, but for me Cornell was a clear choice. After visiting it wasn’t even close, but that’s me. You can always go to Cornell for undergrad but do law school at USC. That way you get the best of both worlds. Also, an article just came out yesterday regarding top schools in the world for employability. Cornell finished 30 spots higher than USC. https://www.timeshighereducation.com/student/news/best-universities-graduate-jobs-global-university-employability-ranking-2016#survey-answer
Sorry, I don’t know anything about Penn to respond. Good luck.
I will just correct one thing @cotopaxi said. Cornell freshmen now all live on North Campus. Only second years and transfers will on West, at the bottom of the big hill, AKA Libe Slope. Some sophomores also live on North, but freshmen will not live on West.
Cornell and USC are very different schools.
@rranderson – I assume you know that Cornell is four hours from Manhattan. The university operates a bus that runs three times/day in each direction, but you wouldn’t make a day trip out of it as it is eight hours R/T
For pre-law, I would focus on Cornell and Penn because they have more highly ranked law schools. I know at Penn students can sub matriculate into the law school and I suspect that Cornell may allow that too.
Penn is a big school, so you can avoid your sibling easily, if you wish.
@cotopaxi Thank you for your response it was super detailed and helpful!!! I have decided to visit this April, so we’ll see! I don’t really like cold weather, but we’ll see! Are you a current student at Cornell?
@CT1417 haha yes, but it’s a lot closer to NYC than LA is :)) Is Cornell very hilly?
@Much2learn It’s a bit more difficult than just avoiding her I’m afraid, there are some other reasons that I’d prefer not to go into. My dilemma is that I ultimately want to be in LA, so although Cornell’s law school is higher ranked, USC may be better in LA. I know Cornell’s is better though so I don’t know if I want to pass it up. Thank you for your response!! I’m really hoping my visit will tip the scales!
Have S at Cornell. Depending on major, grading can be tough. In some majors if you work very hard you can do well. If you don’t work very very hard, grades will be poor in most majors. I would post another thread asking specifically to
those in HumEc PAM major, how tough is the grading in that specific college and if there is much grade deflation. My S is in a different Cornell college. He took classes in 2 colleges, in his own he did well, but took electives in another where the grades were bad despite hard work in subjects where he did well in HS. Really varies. This could affect your GPA for Law School.
And if you like a big city, I would not rule out U Penn…
@rranderson — you will see when you visit later this month, but the campus is mostly flat other than the one very steep hill that you see in photos. There is a slight incline as you walk over the bridge to North Campus (where freshmen live), and also a little hill up from Collegetown to campus, but then massive steep hills from Collegetown to downtown Ithaca. Also hills within Collegetown if you live further down.
Compared to USC, yes, it will appear hilly, but once on campus for the day, it is flat. It is also a much more sprawling campus than USC, and much more varied in architecture.
Agree with @blevine about different grading standards/levels of difficulty across colleges, and within programs. I took courses in five of the seven colleges plus one in the MBA school while there. As a non-tech person, I really should not have taken a course in Engineering! But, any person, any study…you can take classes anywhere you want.
I wouldn’t avoid Penn just because your sister is there. You might occasionally bump into her, but it would probably be pretty rare. Plus… you never know when your sister’s presence might be a plus.
I think Penn and Cornell are a little bit better than USC academically, overall – not to impugn USC, which is a fine school. But I think the draw to LA would have to be pretty powerful for you to overlook the Ivy networks and far-reaching reputation. (and quality… which is the most important thing, of course).
Now if you would like to create a bit of sibling rivalry, Cornell can make that happen. But that would be silly – this isn’t a football game on TV where you’re cheering for either team.
@rranderson So, given your LA preference, the only reason that I would consider Cornell or Penn is sub-matriculation.
Be aware that demand is not very good currently for new law school graduates. The impact of that is that attending a more highly ranked law school matters a lot more. You can see that in US news percentages of law school grads who are employed 10 months after graduation: Cornell 91.3%, Penn 93.9% and USC 77%.
If you can sub-matriculate, you can get in early, avoid dealing with a lot of admissions issues and get a head start on an education at a highly ranked law school during your junior or senior year. Penn is ranked by US News at #7 and will allow undergrads to sub matriculate into the law school. Cornell may well also do this, I am just not as familiar with it, but you may wish to ask. Cornell is also excellent.
I am following this, and its sibling thread, as my son has been accepted at both Cornell and USC (Trustee & Viterbi Scholar).
He intends to study computer science. He is very excited about USC, but was also happily surprised by Cornell. We all want him to make an informed decision. We’ll be making the trek to see Cornell in April.
My son is freshman at CALS in Cornell, and he grew up in SoCal. I didn’t think he’d like Cornell mainly because of the weather and its rural setting, but he LOVES it! The social climate is great and because it’s a college town it lends to the students making friends and coming up with creative ways to enjoy campus life. His best friend from HS is at USC. From their feedback, Cornell is much harder academically but most students at Cornell do not have that air of snobbishness which really appealed to my son. Obviously I’m going to be partial towards Cornell but USC is a great school as well. It’s in the ghetto part of LA so keep that in mind; Cornell is a four hour bus ride from NYC but the University’s connection to Manhattan is huge with Weill school of medicine and the new Tech school.
@rranderson I was accepted ED back in December. Not a current student yet but have obsessed about Cornell for a long time. If you don’t like cold weather and lack of sunshine for a few months then it might be tough to swing your opinion. Still worth a visit.
Many helpful comments here, and I agree with @CALSmom’s comment:
“The social climate is great and because it’s a college town it lends to the students making friends and coming up with creative ways to enjoy campus life.”
My son is a Jr there and I attended many years ago. His experience is very different from mine, but we both loved it there. This past week alone he attended a lunch with the ex-PM of Japan and a lecture about nuclear energy, went on a late night hike of the falls because the water level was high, and spent a day overseeing a crew building (and tearing down) a stage for a rap concert in Barton Hall.
I spent too much time at fraternity parties and in bars (drinking age was lower then, and I was in a sorority). It is all there to be enjoyed, and the fact that the campus is so large and let’s admit it, centrally isolated, means that students are incredibly active on campus and find their fun as part of the Cornell community.
As @CALSmom mentioned, I think the formal opening of the Tech Campus (as opposed to its operation out of Google’s NYC offices), will lead to more opportunities. The program is evolving as it goes, trying new things, discarding and tweaking that which does not work. I think Tech will bring new people to the Ithaca campus in the near future.
@rranderson since you’re interested in pre-law I would consider transferring into ILR School if you choose Cornell. Last plug, Cornell will definitively broaden your intellectual horizons and introduce you to so many wonderful learning opportunities compared to USC. You’re only an undergrad for four years and since you plan on settling in SoCal after school, I say go with the Ivy League school. You can always do law school in Cali. And yes, you are correct in that Cornell’s alumni network is HUGE! They are all over California so don’t worry about getting connected.
re#15, there is no need to transfer to ILR, unless you are more interested in their program of studies.
ILR does have a reputation for a lot of students heading to law school. But that is due to the rather more homogeneous interests of these students, since ILR has only one major, which is basically social sciences.
Students from others of Cornell’s colleges also head off to law school. Several of my arts & sciences college friends are now lawyers. I’m sure that public policy program in Hum Ec produces a good amount of future lawyers.
Besides, the law schools these days care mostly about LSAT and GPA, from what I’ve gleaned.
Re#7, if I’m not mistaken that poster’s kid is studying comp sci or engineering, something like that. The engineering college’s grading has tended to be a little tougher than Arts & sciences. Back in my day , the engineering college had a lower GPA threshold to make Dean’s List. Probably still does. None of that applies to OP. Most science & engineering type majors/ courses are somewhat tougher grading than most social sciences & humanities courses, at most schools AFAIK.
I don’t know specifically about grading in Hum Ec, or Policy Studies, but I’ve never heard anybody squawking about it either.
I do know my D2 graduated with a humanities/social sciences type major in Arts & Sciences and got very good grades. She did work hard though. I think.
As for OP’s question, you really need to visit the campus.
I would also suggest careful examination of the in-college and distribution requirements at each school you are applying to. At Cornell you can take lots of courses at the other colleges but you will have to satisfy Hum Ec’s requirements for courses taken in-college. Though it can be the case that a good number of courses are cross-listed between colleges, so would still “count” as in-college. To check this you can check the registrar’s list of courses. And the Hum Ec website. That’s for Cornell, you should check for your other school options as well.
To practice law in LA it likely is advantageous to go to an area law school. But that’s law school. You can apply to California law schools out of undergrad.
My son attends Cornell and the coldest it has been this year is 15*. The most snow they’ve gotten was 18" recently. LA gets earthquakes from time to time but they’re not a big deal. Yes, the winter months are long at Cornell but I guess the students learn to deal with it. The positives must outweigh the weather
My kids both went to USC and were happy grads. We also have a friend whose D recently got her PhD from Cornell. They’re vastly different campuses and experiences. It’s great that you have this choice and you can’t go wrong with either of them or UPenn. All have nice alumni networks as well.
My kids never had any problems with feeling unsafe at USC nor with earthquakes or tremors. For us as parents, it is nice the USC is near the LAX airport, so easy shuttle service between LAX and campus. They loved the advantages of being so close to the center of the vibrant city of LA. They also loved the milder weather.
Good luck in whatever you chose–I’m sure you will have a great experience
—>Students from others of Cornell’s colleges also head off to law school. Several of my arts & sciences college friends are now lawyers. I’m sure that public policy program in Hum Ec produces a good amount of future lawyers.
One of my best friends from law school (in California, but not USC) is a CALS vet science major… If you are smart & have a good GPA & good LSATs, it doesn’t matter what your UG major was (and sometimes what UG school you went to). I have good friends from UG who were Chem, Poli Sci, and Russian/Math majors & went to law school. Likewise, friends in law school who were Philosophy majors, EE, and English. And our law school valedictorian was NOT from an Ivy or top school – he was a surfer dude from San Diego State who looked like Jeff Spicoli from Fast Times at Ridgemont High – so you never know!
Go where you will be the happiest & fit in the best. You will work hard & succeed at either place as that is what got you to where you are now.
