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@wayneandgarth wrote:
Many top companies recruit Michigan COE… that don’t recruit at OSU.
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I doubt that…name all of these “top companies”. Top companies recruit everywhere…even at schools ranked lower than OSU
The first two links contains Michigan recruiting info I found quickly and the third link is from OSU - everyone can judge for themselves:
http://career.engin.umich.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/30/2013/11/RecruitingHiringCompanies.pdf
http://career.engin.umich.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/30/2013/11/AnnualReport1213.pdf
https://ecs.osu.edu/sites/ecs.osu.edu/files/uploads/2012-2013topemployers.pdf
My hometown is Columbus, I attended one year at OSU. I graduated from Michigan. Go to OSU. It’s an amazing school, with great resources. You’ll be glad that you did.
@wayneandgarth
On that one link, UMich is listing every company that recruited at their school (no evidence that these companies ever hired anyone). That is misleading and can’t be used to compare to OSU’s list.
OSU is only listing “top employers” that have hired multiples.
If you go to that PDF link and look at page 18, you’ll see the UMich list of its “top employers”. .That list might be more fair to compare to OSUs.
recruiting is often regional for engineering. The bottom line is that the student’s future success (job, income) is not dependent on whether he goes to UMich over OSU. OSU has a fine list of employers that hire its grads. ;
I agree. Recruiting versus hiring/employers is classic comparison of “apples and oranges.”
Also, notice that Boeing hired from both Michigan and OSU, but apparently Lockheed Martin did not hire many at either school (although LM makes the complete list at UM). Those are two firms which OP explicitly mentioned an interest in.
It is also worth asking if all students responded to these surveys. Michigan’s “top hiring” list shows about 500 students being hired. It graduates over 1300 students per year. So, obviously a lot of data is missing from that list. http://www.engin.umich.edu/college/about/facts
Salary information does show an advantage to Michigan. According to their respective surveys for 2012-2013, the average starting salary for an aerospace engineer from Michigan was $70,192 compared to only $62,537 for AE’s graduating from Ohio State. (However, take note that OSU was counting salaries offered – not necessarily accepted – while Michigan was counting jobs accepted. see below)
That’s a difference of $7,655, but probably closer to $5,700 after taxes. Given that the additional cost, for the OP, of going to Michigan is $160,000, it makes a lot more sense to choose OSU.
This supports the idea that Michigan has a better engineering school. But it remains hard to justify choosing UM over OSU.
https://ecs.osu.edu/sites/ecs.osu.edu/files/uploads/salaries_08-21-2013.pdf
http://career.engin.umich.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/30/2013/11/AnnualReport1213.pdf (pages 12 - 13)
Page 11 shows that the response rate to the survey is 33%, which is a very reasonable sample size.
Other interesting points. Michigan reports “job acceptances,” while OSU reports “salary offers.” Michigan had 13 aerospace engineers report accepting jobs, while OSU reports 21 receiving offers. Does any of this make a big difference? Probably not.
“This supports the idea that Michigan has a better engineering school. But it remains hard to justify choosing UM over OSU.”
That’s the point that was being made. Both wayneandgarth and myself only suggested that Michigan has the better program. It was another poster who made the absolute comment that it doesn’t matter which of these two engineering programs you graduate from.
^^^^
I would say, “not so quick.” It depends on the person.
Michigan has already deferred the OP, while OSU has accepted him, and OP acknowledges that he would be a below average engineering student at UM but above average at OSU. Consequently, when he graduates, the OP can expect to get a lower than average UM job offer, but a higher than average OSU offer.
So, the chances are that he personally would make about the same salary regardless of which school he attends. It is very easy to narrow that $7,655 gap.
The difference in salary between OSU and Michigan has at least as much to do with the fact that UM draws more talented students, as it does with the quality of the school itself.
^^^Then fine. All engineering schools are equal. You might as well graduate from Alabama instead of MIT. Nobody cares.
Like most of these types of posts, the OP is better off attending the in-state school and saving the money.
@rjkofnovi That’s not quite what they are saying. However, places like MIT are not an option for everyone. We are not discussing MIT versus Ohio State.
The current President and CEO of Lockheed Martin probably would agree with that. She is a 'Bama grad.
Super talented students, with lots of ambition, will undoubtedly thrive at MIT in a way that they probably would not at Alabama or OSU. They will also “rub shoulders” with a lot more talented people. So, MIT is the right school for the some people.
However, it is abundantly clear that a successful career is more dependent on the person than the college they attend.
Bill Gates is a Harvard drop out. His success had next to nothing to do with anything Harvard could teach him. It had to do with his own talent and ambition. However, at Harvard he did meet many more talented people (such as Steve Ballmer) who helped him form Microsoft. Many people acknowledge that these “networking” opportunities are among the greatest benefits of elite colleges.
@Landes
I tend to agree that the difference between UM and OSU for engineering undergrad is small enough that the cost savings you mention are clearly the deciding point. It might be different if you thought that OSU, for some reason, is a place you would be miserable at, but that is highly unlikely.
Anyway, I came to comment on other parts of your post that no one has picked up on yet. They are the parts where you talk about being in the 25th percentile at UM and the 75th at OSU. I understand, of course, that this is a true statement of the statistics as you would be entering the class. However, I have seen countless cases where students change completely once they get to college, for both the positive and the negative. I have seen the 3.0 high school student become a straight A student once they are one their own and get to start owning their own life, so to speak. They just thrive in the college atmosphere, the way classes are conducted, everything. I have also seen, unfortunately, excellent high school students flame out because they get caught up in the party scene or cannot discipline themselves appropriately in college to get the work done. In other words, they flounder once they lose the tighter structure of high school and home.
So I wouldn’t put much weight on those stats as you enter college. True, there is a general correlation between high school performance and college performance, but there is more than enough noise in there to make it a weak to moderate correlation. So I would still go with the money, but if something happens that makes UM more affordable for you (not likely, but just saying) and you like it better there, don’t worry about how you enter versus the others. Hard work and discipline in your studies is what usually dictates the results. Of course, you still have to get into UM for this to matter.
Oh, and I also agree that the rankings are complete crap. Physics is physics, Calculus is calculus, statics and dynamics are …well you get the idea. At the undergrad level the quality of instruction at highly reputable schools such as UM, Purdue and OSU just won’t be that different. Grad school is where those kinds of distinctions become far more meaningful.
Sage advice. I totally agree.
@Fallenchemist said, “Oh, and I also agree that the rankings are complete crap.”
I think that is treasonous to CC! Haha, I hope that is true, though.
@albert69
LOL, well it is a contentious position to be sure, although you would perhaps be surprised at the large number of people that agree with me. I have posted extensively in the past (although it has been awhile) as to why I think this is true, so I won’t rehash it. Besides, it is not the main topic. But in short, the college undergraduate experience is made up of so many factors, academic and non-academic, and so many of these are virtually non-measurable and subjective and personal, that the idea of a single “best” college, even within a single major, is a fairly useless concept at the undergrad level except for what is best for you. If you care about why it is different at the grad level, you can PM me.
I wish you the best of luck in your decisions and at college. Work hard (but have fun too!), and I am sure it will work out great wherever you end up.
Well, strictly speaking, there’s a difference between a university ranked 30 and a university ranked 300. But within groupings of roughly 25 schools? Yeah, not much difference in offerings, opportunities, peer quality, etc.
One piece of advice: check out the placement rates at the schools you are considering. I’m not sure of UM and Purdue’s stats, but OSU’s placement rates, published on their Engineering Career Services website, are very low. AE placement for the last year published (2013): 42% got jobs; 12% were in grad school, and the rest were still looking. In contrast, local schools that aren’t nearly as well ranked (e.g. University of Dayton and University of Cincinnati) have much, much higher placement rates for AE majors. Further, OSU publishes multiple years worth of stats, and it appears engineering placement rates are consistently low. This isn’t just an Aerospace issue either…almost all of the OSU engineering majors have low placement rates.
My DS was in the exact same situation as the OP: we live in Ohio; interested in Aerospace Engineering; considered same schools; strong background having attended a strong private high school and scored a 34 on ACT. He ended up choosing OSU as it seemed like a no brainer given the great rankings and cost. Only when he struggled to find internships did I start searching for the placement rates.
I’m not sure how this story is going to end. My DS is now a senior at OSU trying to find a job without having had any internships. In fairness, he doesn’t have exceptional grades, but with a 3.1, his GPA is in the average range, and he has some strong non-engineering related ECs with a key leadership position. There is some hope: he is now working on two senior projects which are giving him good experience, and just last week he had an on-site interview at a well-regarded company.
I don’t know why the placement rates are so low at OSU. Maybe just less hand-holding through the job search process than the other schools? If I had known about that at the time my son was choosing a college, I would have likely encouraged him to go elsewhere.
In fairness, my son has loved every minute of his OSU experience both inside and outside the classroom. I just hope there’s a good outcome!
So, a school offering aerospace engineering with about only 21/116 surveyed graduates (about 18%) of still seeking employment or graduate school is pretty good? Granted that there were 253 graduates, so not everyone was interviewed. @buzzlightyear3, I hope your son finds a job. Best of luck.
It would be helpful if we had the actual numbers, and preferably links to the data. We also have to remember that not all students respond to their school surveys. Typically only between 30% and 60% response rate. This in itself can skew data, so can the time period in which the data is collected. Some surveys cover a full year after graduation, while others measure only a few months, and still others measure at the time of graduation. For data to be comparable, it has to measure the same thing.
Speaking of measuring the same thing, I have to correct my previous data comparing AE majors at U.Michigan and OSU. The Michigan data which I gave earlier in post #25 was for master’s graduates. AE bachelors from Michigan have an average starting salary of $66,539 (not $70,192 which I quoted). So the difference in starting salary between UM and OSU is only $4,002, with OSU at $62,537. Sorry, my mistake.