Could someone give me a 101 course in the differences between applying grad vs. undergrad?

I can hardly believe it but the kid who’s the reason that I first started at CC is now heading towards grad school. Like they said in Godfather 2, “just when I thought I was out…”

I have a few basic assumptions/questions and could you guys tell me if I"m off-base? I’ll make these questions generic to her major but will mention that it’s a non-medical track.

  1. As opposed to how you might choose an undergrad college (you love the place, its affordable, etc.) you choose a grad school based 1) whether they have your program and 2) whether you can get a fellowship or grant. Is that true?
  2. Many kids apply to grad schools without physically visiting the places first. True or not? I ask this because how do you visit? Do they have tours just for grad students? Also D is looking at some colleges in europe so visiting won't be practical.
  3. What's the average # of schools to apply to? Undergrad, a kid might try for 10 or more (mine did) but is the grad process a smaller one?
  4. Do most students in grad schools work outside jobs?
  5. Do most undergrads go directly to grad or do most take a couple of years first? (vague, I know).
  6. Do most grad students live on-campus in grad housing or look for apts around campus (i realize that's a broad question).

What else am I missing?

PhD program or professional school (MD, JD, etc.)?

For PhD programs:

  1. Choice of PhD program is typically based on research areas of interest (often specific faculty members). If academic jobs after PhD are the goal, prestige *in subject area* can be highly important. PhD programs worth attending are funded with a tuition waiver and a stipend, though the stipend level relative to local living expenses can vary between schools and subjects (but money differences are not as great as they can be for undergraduate).
  2. PhD students commonly work as research assistants or teaching assistants to earn their funding.
  3. Both routes are common enough so that they are not that unusual. For PhD students, going directly from BA/BS to graduate school is probably more common.
  4. Depends on the campus, but most graduate students living in on-campus housing do so in housing specifically for graduate students (perhaps also combined with non-traditional students). Undergraduate dorms, fraternities, and sororities are not as attractive to graduate students generally. Of course, many do live off-campus, even when the campus offers on-campus housing for graduate students.

Note that for various professional programs, (e.g. MD versus JD), the answers can vary. For example, regarding question 1, any MD medical school in the US is good (but expensive, though costs vary substantially), while students going to JD (law) programs should realize that law employment is highly dependent on law school rank (and law schools are expensive as well).

So be aware that the generic answers that you may get may not be applicable to the specific program your kid is interested in.

oh this is a good question @ucbalumnus! This is a basic Masters in foreign affairs.

It is likely that a Masters in foreign affairs will not be funded. Your child should pay attention to programs where there are teaching or research assistantships available for second year students, and where the program is not so overwhelming that there is no time for a part-time job on campus or in the community. Back in the last century, I knew unfunded MA/MS students who worked in the campus library, as RAs in the grad residence halls, and as house-parents in undergrad sororities/fraternities. I expect that at least some of those positions still exist.

With respect to graduate school funding, many/most PhD programs are indeed funded, often – but not always – through TA-ing or working as a research assistants. (This type of funding may be more prevalent among public universities than it is among private unis because some privates will grad programs without making students work, but YMMV). Sometimes the length or amount funding will vary (my husband’s department will sometimes fund incoming grad students from anywhere ranging from one to four (or more) years, depending on how many students are being accepted and how strong the candidates are.

One thing to note: as a grad student at a public uni, the rules for establishing in-state residency and being charged in-state tuition rates at public unis differ from those of undergrads. Generally, after the first year, assuming that you can prove full-time residency through various means such as having rented an apartment, having gotten a driver’s license from that state, can prove employment, registering to vote and putting utilities in your name, you will be considered to be instate for tuition purposes.

Terminal Masters programs are generally not funded, with some exceptions (e.g., through fellowships and/or TAships for an MFA program when the masters is the highest level that can be obtained in the field).

There may also be fellowship funding or merit aid for some graduate programs.

As to the logistics of applying, most students don’t visit before applying and generally aren’t given “tours” nor are they “marketed to” in the same way as undergraduates are. Applications go to the individual departments and are reviewed by faculty committees – not admissions staff. They want a coherent statement of purpose – why you want to study what you want to study, what your objectives are, and what you can bring into the program; unlike undergraduate admissions, they don’t want to hear an interesting anecdote about shopping at Costco, how you overcame adversity, or a letter to your roommate. Recs from professors and test scores often matter more than GPA, but again, that depends on the program (professional schools like law and medicine may focus more on GPA than more academic fields, but again, it depends).

Once accepted into a program, you can (and should) visit campus, sit in on classes, and meet faculty and students in the program. Often the departments will arrange for you to be housed with a grad student in the program. Don’t expect to be courted at organized events (e.g., “admit week”) the way that undergraduates are. You will likely be working directly with department staff in setting visits up.

As for housing, it depends on where you will be studying. In more affordable areas, grad students – especially older ones – will prefer to live off campus. In high rent areas (think Palo Alto, New York City, etc.) on-campus housing might be more desirable.

As for working outside the program, that would obviously depend on the circumstances, the funding, the time commitment for being in the program, etc.

As to whether most student go directly into grad school, that depends entirely on the program. Some programs prefer people that have real-world experience (e.g., MBAs, Engineering), others will prefer students still in the academic trenches.

One major difference between grad admissions and undergrad admissions is that for grad school the admission decisions are usually made at the department level rather than the university level. Thus, instead of having a committee of admissions professionals from the central administration reading apps and voting whether to admit, that will done by a committee of professors in the Foreign Affairs department. So you are writing the app for a rather different audience.

Some other differences:
Many Master’s programs and all PhD programs are very research driven, thus having research experience and highlighting that on the app will be very important.

Most programs will want to see your GRE scores, but often the GRE is less important in grad admissions than the SAT was back in undergrad admissions. Thus, having a crummy GRE score will probably keep you out, but having a great GRE score will help only a little to get you in.

The formal Statement of Intent, which is different from most undergrad admissions essays, is usually important for grad admissions.

How many grad schools to apply to depends on how fierce the competition is in that subject area and how strong the applicants stats are. Master’s programs are usually easier to get into than PhD. Way back in the day I applied to six PhD programs and got admitted to two. Two years ago my daughter (who had stronger stats than I ever did) applied to seven Master’s programs and got admitted to all seven.

OP,

First, happymom is right. Some areas of study are funded; others are not. My area is English, which is a ginormous field (terrible in terms of job market over-saturation; great in terms of grad school funding!) and because nearly all universities have first-year composition requirements, pretty much all masters and PhD students were fully funded (tuition waivers and stipends (small salaries) to teach). At least this was true at all major public universities and most large private schools. I do not know about foreign affairs programs, but I will try to answer some of your general questions. I applied to both masters programs and later doctoral programs.

  1. Yes, program-related concerns are number-one. I cannot comment on research and grants, as that sounds like it might apply more to those in the sciences. Hopefully, someone familiar with foreign affairs can respond. Overall, though, unless one has financial means (has saved up for graduate school, has family that can pay), grad students focus a lot of attention on schools that will either fully fund or partially fund their studies.

  2. I did not visit any of the graduate schools to which I was applying, though as a pre-undergrad, I visited two schols officially (two LACs) and had visited a third (large U) to visit a friend who attended. Some might disagree, but visiting is not that important at the graduate level. For one, many people–though not all–will search nationally. While research shows that the majority of those applying to undergrad stay 250 miles or so close to home, grad school searches can be more expansive, unless one has personal commitments (job, spouse) that tie them to a specific area. Also, at the graduate level, things like personal fit are not that important. As a grad student, it will quite literally be your job to be a student, and graduate school is a college within the college (again, literally, but figuratively as well). As a graduate school applicant, I was not concerned about campus aesthetics, campus culture, clubs/organizations, or even the size of the institution, etc. Sure, I guess extremes in these areas might affect my choices, but when one is applying to, say, public flagships or other large public universities with substantial graduate offerings, the differences between them are simply not that crucial to warrant campus visits (again, I am referring to personal fit, not academic fit, which is very important).

  3. The number of schools can vary. As a senior in college, I applied to five masters programs. When I applied to PhD programs, I applied to eight.

  4. If you are pursuing a graduate education in a popular field, tuition waivers and teaching opportunities (or teaching assistant opportunities, or research assistant opportunities) are common. For smaller programs, I am assuming that, yes, students would need to find outside work or perhaps find work on campus. I would contact the programs you are interested in and honestly ask them how students fund their studies.

  5. Some head directly to grad schools after undergrad; others take a year or two off. I headed directly to a masters program at a large SEC school but wasn’t ready. I was so exhausted from my undergrad education that I left the program, took two years off, and then reapplied to a new set of schools. Do take into account your own readiness and stamina. Plenty of students hit the ground running with no break between undergrad and graduate school, and they do fine. For others, a much-needed break (focusing, say, on just working) is important.

  6. Most graduate students I knew lived off-campus, in apartments. I attended three graduate schools (again, I left the first one because I wasn’t ready), and all were large public universities, two of them flagships. International graduate students would often live on campus for obvious reasons: they couldn’t visit the town in advance and apartment hunt. Off-campus living tended to be cheaper than the dorm/apartment-style on-campus offerings. However, choose whatever is most comfortable. There is a certain appeal to living on campus in a simple efficiency. Typically, one pays a flat monthly fee and all utilities (including Internet and cable) are included.

I hope this helps!

Masters in Foreign Affairs / IR / etc. is pretty straightforward. It is almost always a ‘taught masters’ (LSE and I think King’s War College have one by research, but that is almost always geared towards people interested in being academics/first step to a PhD). Taught master’s almost never have funding / grants / scholarships - they are money-makers for the universities.

The Foreign Policy top-list is widely respected: http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/02/03/top-twenty-five-schools-international-relations/

Read the fine print carefully: there is a world of difference between some programs with very similar names; and some require quite a lot of experience before you can apply.

Most people don’t visit any place that is inconvenient before they apply- and often not even then, especially for a 1-2 year taught masters (for a 4-5 year PhD, yes!).

I have one kid who completed a Master’s program (accounting) and one who is currently in a Master’s program (speech pathology). They are in different disciplines but here are some comments.

–Both researched grad schools that had the program they wanted to pursue and that were strong in their particular area of interest. My D had to do a great deal of additional research as she went into a Masters program in speech pathology without an undergraduate degree in the field and had to seek out programs that would accept her without that background (there were only a handful).

– My D did visit five of the six programs she applied to. This was to get more information about both the program and the field . The types of visits she had were all over the map so flexibility is key. Two of the schools had formal information sessions (although one was very general and didn’t focus on her particular program), one did invite people for visits until they were accepted, and in three cases she emailed the person in charge of the program, asked if she could visit, and they were very accommodating (at one school she met with the head of admissions, at another program she met with the person in charge of the program so her experiences varied but they were all helpful in one way or another). She went back for formal interviews at two schools, interviewed at a third school on Skype, and three schools did not interview.

–My S applied to only two grad schools as he had a guaranteed admit into the Masters program at his undergrad college. He did a Skype interview with the other school and flew out to visit only after he was admitted. There was no formal admitted students program but the grad school did plan out a lovely day for him (including meeting with the program director, lunch with a student, going to a class and talking to the professor after class, a college tour etc.)

–In terms of living arrangements, it is situational. My S went to Notre Dame they had very nice apartment style grad dorms and he had a random suite-mate who was in his program (each had his own bedroom) and it turned out very well. It was a two semester program and didn’t seem worth finding, furnishing, and organizing an apartment. My D is in NYC and lives in a tiny apartment with two roommates who were her friends from undergrad – they are all doing different grad programs at the same university so things just fell into place and it worked out to be cheaper than the dorms.

–Taking time off or not depends on: 1) on the program and 2) if one can get meaningful work without the Masters. For my S everyone went straight through as they needed the additional credits to be employable by the preferred firms. My D’s program has some people who worked and some who went straight through. As an overall theme it seems to me that there is more of a tendency to work for a couple of years before grad school but it really is situational.

–We did look at finances as part of the equation but when affordable we sent them to the preferred program. Both got some scholarships but not a ton. Going to a top rated program definitely helped S in terms of employment options after graduation. Too early to tell for my D but fingers crossed.

Hope this helps a bit…

Super helpful, thank you all…specific questions on the way.

In thinking about it a bit more – the biggest difference was that for grad school the focus is much towards the particular program in their areas of study. rather than the overall school. Unlike undergrad where students have a major but take coursework in many other areas, virtually all of the classes (with maybe one or two exceptions for classes in related areas) for a Master’s degrees will be taken within the specific program the student is accepted into.

And on the cost (now that I understand that a Masters within the field of foreign affairs/etc isn’t likely to have funding/fellowships attached to it), I’m wondering if it might save money to try for a grad degree from one of the schools in Europe…but I might be missing something here. It looks the average cost of a master’s degree from a public university in the US is maybe $28,000, and at a private university, it’s more like $38,000. (not counting dorm, etc). So take the London School of Economics…looks like that would come in at around $20,000 U.S. a year…recognizing, of course, that flights, etc would add to this.

What do you all think?

With graduate school the big answer is…“depends.” The cool thing about grad school is that prestige really doesn’t matter because you have a master’s degree, which squashes a Harvard degree any day of the week. The best graduate school is the one that fits your career choice and lifestyle. If you’re a student working part time and you like campus life, then a traditional program might work best. If you’re a working professional, then an evening program might work better, or even a reputable online program would work. If you’re looking for an academic career, you might want to consider research opportunities. What’s really important is the degree program and how it fits into your career path.

Absolutely (says she who did her Master’s over the way). LSE, Oxford, Cambridge (& unlike undergrad, at graduate level you can apply to both of them), SOAS (UCL) and KCL War Studies (who have just hired Kori Schake away from Stanford) are all worth a look.

She needs to find out which programs feed into the career she wants. It is possible that the best program for her is at a place that isn’t on her current radar screen.

And @collegemom3717 did you then start your career in the U.S. after your masters or stay in Europe? Or asked another way, does the degree earned in Europe translate well to U.S. based jobs?

My wife and I both go Master’s degrees in library science. She had an assistantship, while I had a library job arranged through the school. Her brother got a Master’s in IR; I don’t know if he had an assistantship. He’s now in a moderately high profile position with the State Department

Lots of students work for a couple of years and save some money, then make a decision about going on for a terminal master’s or not. PhD students need to get going due to the long path, but master’s students can take a breath and really evaluate for sure if that is what they want. D1 and her fiancé both thought they’d get master’s, but after working for a few years both have changed their minds.

@SouthernHope, I had job offers in both the US and in Europe when I finished, and ended up taking a job with an (international) organization with whom I had done some research for my thesis (I had contacts in several places, as my thesis research crossed borders).

I agree with @intparent’s view that it is important to be clear about what you want from a graduate degree. You haven’t said much about your D’s background or objectives, so this may not be at all relevant, but the IR path is pretty crowded atm, and one of the signs of that is how much free/near free labour organizations are being able to extract from new people coming in. They all want experience, which de facto means internships, and those internships rarely come with meaningful remuneration. I know too many recent college grads with good undergraduate IR-type degrees (and even some with ok but not top drawer masters) who have had serial internships and are still trying to get that actual serious job. A masters is often effectively a pre-req, but the US programs often prefer that you have some experience- advantage Europe on that front. Also, there is a disproportionate benefit to a name brand IR-type Masters that is similar to (though not as intense or predictive as) the T14 obsession in law.