<p>My daughter has been (in essence) deferred by two of her target schools, and one of her safeties. Her college counselor and two English teachers have gone over her application and essays with a fine-toothed comb and think they are really quite strong. Without boring you with every EC/class rank/award/honor/GPA/SAT/ACT/AP score, suffice it to say, she is a very strong candidate. </p>
<p>Our question is: Do teachers ever write something negative if they know the student won't see the letter? Of course my daughter chose teachers who would/could write strong letters, and we can't even imagine what they would say that wouldn't be supportive. Still, we are wondering if a bad letter could account for the deferrals at schools for which she ought to be a great fit.</p>
<p>Some recommenders write negative remarks in recommendations but if your daughter doesn't have any "skeletons in her closet", that is not the likely the reason for the deferrals.</p>
<p>I can remember two recommendations EVER that haven't been positive. I can remember when I read them, what schools I worked for, and what they said. They are rare.</p>
<p>If a teacher isn't going to write a positive letter for a student, they'll usually find a way out of writing it.</p>
<p>Are the teachers willing to show your daughter copies the letters they sent? Dean J may be right about the rarity of negatives, but a very positive letter can come off as weak or simply fail to be very informative. I'm pretty sure that my daughter's admission to reach schools must be partially the result of one particular letter that was effusive in praise, particularly targeted to the type of qualities that would impress any college. </p>
<p>My d. also had another teacher who had made a point of asking to be allowed to write a rec -- and he wrote a very nice one -- but he was a fairly new teacher and not much of a writer, so it simply wasn't the type of letter that would make my d. stand out from the pack. (More generic in tone, i.e.: could have been written about any good student). </p>
<p>Knowing what is missing could help if you feel at this point that there is still time to submit supplemental material -- though it is late in the game.</p>
<p>I do want to note that my d. was deferred or waitlisted at the 2 colleges with EA or expedited app. procedures, but she then got in to 4 colleges that were all extreme reaches, including one that had deferred her EA. So I wouldn't read too much into a deferral.</p>
<p>Is there any chance that she was such a strong candidate that the schools felt she would not enroll?? I know that at my son's "college night at his high school this topic was discussed (yield) Did she demonstrate a strong interest (call, email, visit). I know some schools don't consider yield, but apparently some do.</p>
<p>"I can remember two recommendations EVER that haven't been positive."</p>
<p>The OPs question was, "Do teachers ever write something negative..." and the answer is yes, they call attention to a student's weaknesses, if for no other reason than to provide a balanced recommendation i.e. nobody's perfect. Those remarks may be intended to "flesh out" the applicant and show her humanity through her foibles, but remarks can affect a reader in unintended ways. Perhaps you invariably view the recs you read as positive because you are predisposed to see the positive in an applicant, but it's unlikely that every reader shares your disposition.</p>
<p>By "in essence" I mean she was told through two early evaluations she was a "possible" admit in the spring, and deferred outright by another school.</p>
<p>There are no skeletons at all; she is a little more serious, mature and quiet than most kids her age. She likes to read and study, works hard at and enjoys her extracurricular activities. She is close to her family and a homebody who doesn't seem to need to socialize as much as most peers, which is fairly unusual at her high school. Other than that, we can't think of anything that could be viewed negatively. All we have heard from these teachers (and others) is what a good, kind, hard-working student we have!</p>
<p>My daughter waived her right to see her letters. They were written by two Ph.D's and another veteran teacher. The HS college counselor said they were written by some of the school's best letter-writers. She is applying to schools that we think match her temperament and abilities so even her foibles wouldn't matter too much, I don't think. </p>
<p>My daughter has defintely continued to show interest in the colleges from which she was deferred, without being obnoxious, so I don't think they assumed she wouldn't enroll, but who knows? That's a good theory.</p>
<p>But some letters are "good" whilst others are "amazing" I was allowed to read my 2 Ds letters when putting together an outside scholarship packet (I never showed Ds the letters) and it was quite apparent to me which DD was the better candidate- it was no surprise when the good letter candidate did not gain entry to her reaches and having seen the letters was helpful to prepare me.</p>
<p>I've only seen a couple of letters that were written for my son. One from his AP computer science teacher talked about how creative he was - something that no other teacher would have said about him. Unfortunately he didn't have her after freshman year, so we couldn't use her for colleges. Another teacher had known him for Science Olympiad as well so he could talk about him both in the classroom and out of it. I didn't actually think that one was as good in that it was more about his achievements and less about the way his mind works. Then he had a somewhat over the top one from a professor that he'd written a computer program for that was very helpful for analyzing data. I suspect that one was helpful in the sense that he basically said that it was work his graduate students couldn't do and threw words around like stellar. (It didn't get him into Caltech, but it may have helped elsewhere.)</p>
<p>I do think that teachers can unintentionally write letters that they think are good, but come off as less strong. You could describe the kid as "hard-working" and "diligent" for example. Curmudgeon I think once posted two similar letters showing how one made the student sound much better than the other. MIT's site BTW has very good examples on their site for what they find helpful in teacher recommendation letters. Worth checking out, though it's hard to know what the most tactful way to get a teacher to read the advice is.</p>
<p>My D had a rec letter written by one of her teachers. Fortunately, the letter was given to us for mailing so we had a chance to read it. While the letter wasn't negative, it seemed to have been written by an illiterate person. It was chock full of grammatical errors, spelling errors, a reference to my D as 'he/him', etc. I was shocked at how bad it was - and this from a teacher who was always highly critical of the same items in papers written in his class. My respect for him went to zero and I threw the letter in the trash. Fortunately my D had adequate rec letters from other teachers who could actually write.</p>
<p>Perhaps 'Dean J' can comment on what inferences they draw from a teacher who writes a rec like the above. I'm sure they wouldn't hold it against the student (unless they suspected the student of getting their 4 year-old sibling to write it) but it doesn't seem that it would add to the positive column either since it's essentially a non-rec.</p>
<p>
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Perhaps you invariably view the recs you read as positive because you are predisposed to see the positive in an applicant, but it's unlikely that every reader shares your disposition.
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They honestly are all positive. It's gotten to a point that every student loves learning, raises the level of classroom discussion, goes above and beyond, etc. Interestingly, foreign teachers have started to catch on to the American way of writing recs. Back some years ago, international rec letters were very frank and gave honest assessments of students' strengths and weaknesses. Over time, the international students joined the American ones in walking on water.</p>
<p>I personally think that the really great letters are the ones that give us examples instead of speaking in generalities. That's the difference between the sea of good, positive recs and the small pond of glowing, amazing recs.
[QUOTE]
Perhaps 'Dean J' can comment on what inferences they draw from a teacher who writes a rec like the above. I'm sure they wouldn't hold it against the student (unless they suspected the student of getting their 4 year-old sibling to write it) but it doesn't seem that it would add to the positive column either since it's essentially a non-rec.
[/QUOTE]
I usually chuckle and assume that teacher was writing letters at a frenzied pace over the weekend and just didn't feel as though they had the time to go back and edit.</p>
<p>The same is true for those who say "Jane would be a perfect candidate for <em>(not UVa)</em>___". Mistakes happen. We're looking for the meat of the rec.</p>
<p>By the way, I HAVE seen a rec letter written by a younger sibling. It was charming and sweet. I've seen a few best friend ones, too. That used to be something Williams wanted...not sure if they're still doing that.</p>
<p>Don't panic yet; she hasn't been outright rejected. And remember there are a TON of "very strong candidates," and whether your d gets lost in the crowd or has a unique quality the school is looking for can be completely out of her hands. For instance, is her biggest EC her strong skill on the oboe - but the school already has a half-dozen oboe players? Is she from the geographic area that a majority of the students at that college are from, and wants to major in their most popular major? Or is she from an unusual state (ie Montana, applying to school in Georgia). I wouldn't rush to blame the recommendations. At this point there's nothing you can do anyway. Just wait and hope for the best!</p>
<p>I can hear nerves fraying everywhere as April 1 approaches...</p>
<p>My only clue as to what the letter-writers wrote was what they told me about my daughter at conference time. One teacher, who is probably among the most highly-regarded at their high school, revealed that our daughter was the type of student who you rarely run across these days. This teacher is not the type to engage in hyperbole. He seemed to truly know and respect our daughter's deep and thoughtful ways, and her ability to synthesize material from various disciplines. </p>
<p>Another letter writer was a teacher who retired this year and told her students last year that she would not be writing any rec letters. Privately she offered to write one for my daughter, partly because of her exceptional work ethic and character, coupled with academic prowess and success, or so she said.</p>
<p>The third writer was a teacher who was also the NHS and Science Olympiad leader so she knew our daughter in and out of class. </p>
<p>My daughter applied for a scholarship and had to get copies of her letters to include in the mailing. We sure wish we had x-ray vision to see through the envelopes! I can tell you they were fat, at least two pages. That to me indicated they were thorough.</p>
<p>Maybe observations made by her teachers could be viewed by a college as red flags if she was on the bubble. For example, could something like "sensitive" be read as "unstable"?</p>
<p>A sibling letter, that is so cute. I can just imagine what my daughter's little brother would say: "Sissy is so nice. She cuts out snowflakes and hangs them from my ceiling. She hugs me when I come home from school and reads to me at night." And you know, that kind of sums her up as well as anything!</p>
<p>Leadership roles: She is a black belt in martial arts so she is an instructor of the lower ranking students (adults and children). She is a co-captain of the Varsity Scholastic Bowl team, an editor of the high school literary magazine, a section leader (first chair French horn) in her school's top music ensemble. All the seniors are considered "captains" of the Science Olympiad team. She is the team captain of a group she organized to raise money for leukemia research, a cause in which our family has been involved for years.</p>
<p>I meant more among her peers: non-academic leadership roles, like student government....it sounds like she might be a bit anti (or maybe "un-") social from the way you describe her....maybe that came across.</p>
<p>Anyway, it's very early.....especially if she didn't apply early action/decision.</p>