Could the rec letters be bad?

<p>Dean J, I hope you are right but I have personal and still painful experience with a blind-side torpedo letter from a teacher jealous of the subject being considered top of the mark and her pet being considered as an also-ran. I will not disclose what was said in the rec letter (and I never have before either so search won't help anybody) but trust me. It was a torpedo. Maybe this wasn't the first time this had happened either because we were warned in time to enlist the aid of others and sure enough- there it was.</p>

<p>This "teacher" had the audacity to approach me at the time college/scholarship results were coming out with a syrupy sweet, smiling, "how'd (the student) do?" I told her. :) It made me quite happy to watch her jaw drop. Hey, I never said I was a good person.</p>

<p>I have warned each successive class of top students through their parents (and I believe the person who warned me continues to warn others).</p>

<p>And no. This was NOT the magic words type letter where magic words or secret code was used to sink the student's ship. This was direct, pointed, vindictive, and false.</p>

<p>To the OP- sometimes the adoring, "hard -working kid" letter comes off as "this kid is an absolute grind and will toil until daylight". Nothing you can do about it... just a caveat that what appears to be a strong, supportive letter can come off as less than that, particularly at some schools.</p>

<p>My practical suggestion is to try and let this go, the apps are in, there's no going back. However, if you have been relying on the 25-50% type statistics as reassurance, I'm not sure those historical numbers are terribly predictive for most applicants. The bottom of the class (in my observation) numerically, tends to be comprised of kids who composed a concerto which was performed at Avery Fisher Hall, published a novel at age 15, or co-authored a paper with a world famous epidemiologist on AIDS transmission in Nigeria. Sorry for the hyperbole but you get the idea.</p>

<p>If your kid is a top student with strong academics and a bunch of diverse EC's which show energy and commitment, it isn't likely, all things being equal, that she's a sure admit to a school where her numbers put her at the 25% mark of the class. Just a reality check for you- she sounds dynamite and wonderful and is sure to make fantastic contributions to any campus lucky enough to get her.</p>

<p>I am amazed at how much you all seem to know about his process. I feel like I was underprepared, and maybe my daughter has paid the price. It was her HS college counselor who told us whether the colleges to which she applied were reach, target or safety. I think the counselor called UC a "target" based on GPA at her high school, and who had been admitted with that GPA (and test scores, etc.) from the school. I looked up the schools in a college guide book to see how her scores compared. </p>

<p>My daughter did not submit a tape or cd of her horn playing, though she did include the sheet music of some pieces she had composed. After being deferred, her college counselor helped her choose an additional teacher to write a rec letter. She also submitted two more writing samples since that is a real strength of hers, including a novel she had vanity-published. </p>

<p>I sure hope no one has torpedoed my daughter; I can't imagine why they would! That would break her heart since she has utmost respect for the teachers who wrote her letters, and believes they have the same for her. I honestly wouldn't want her to know if they did! If her rec letters had anything to do with it, I'm guessing something innocently written might have triggered an unintentionally negative impression. It has occurred to me that the college admissions officers truly know better that she might not be a good fit at their school. I have to believe they have the students' best interest at heart. Also, wouldn't it be bad for the college if students left after a semester or a year because it is not the right place for them?</p>

<p>I also hope our financial need doesn't take her out of the running for good. We probably should have applied to some state schools but they did not seem a good match for her temperament. </p>

<p>Once again, thank you all for your suggestions. Having a place to float theories has truly helped ease our minds, even if we cannot change the ultimate outcome at this point.</p>

<p>I forgot to mention: neither the guidance or college counselor has seen my daughter's letters. The teachers keep them, and typically the students go directly to the writers with their addressed envelopes; the teachers then mail the letters themselves. In the case of the scholarship application, it was requested that everything be sent in one envelope so that's why my daughter had sealed copies of the letters at one point.</p>

<p>Maybe it's just the random element of admissions coming into play. </p>

<p>My daughter recieved a "possible" letter from a school where she easily trumps the typical SAT scores (also has 4 AP's that are 5's, 5 more AP's this year, 3 SAT II at 780+, Nat'l Merit Semi-Finalist, Presidential Scholarship semi-finalist, Micron Scholarship semi-finalist, Rotary scholarship semi-finalist, tons of community service, published short story in a book, 4.0 average, work experience and so on). She also traveled across the country to visit this school, interviewed there and it was the only school where she chose to do an overnight. She went to their meet-and-greet in town and stayed the whole time. The essays were great and I know the letters were. So, there you have it. There is very little rhyme or reason to this process.</p>

<p>I don't think any one should take this personally, although it's almost impossible not to!</p>

<p>Delicate Arch: It sounds as if there is nothing else your daughter could have done. She has accomplished so much in her young life to feel proud about. The decision feels personal, I know. It is very difficult to accept the seemingly random nature of the process, too. It is truly random for the individual applicant, but apparently the colleges have a method to their madness. </p>

<p>With those exceptional achievements, I expect your daughter will defy the odds and be admitted in a few short weeks! Best of luck to you and to her.</p>

<p>When only 30% of students who apply are accepted, I think you have to consider a match school still a bit of a reachy-match. I think that's especially true at a school like U. of Chicago which I think has a more self-selected group of applicants. Of course your GC may have reason to think from past acceptences from your school that her chances were better - that's reasonable. It doesn't help though that each year more kids are applying to school so odds are going down everywhere each year until at least next year.</p>

<p>My daughter had one friend who should have been a practically perfect applicant for the schools to which she applied: 9 non-ultra-selective LACs, all but a couple of which her GC thought could be safeties for her. Ultimately, she was accepted at only two of them. One of the acceptances came from her first-choice college (which had deferred her ED), so all was well in the end.</p>

<p>What happened? Who can tell? It may just have been horrendous luck. On the numbers alone, she probably had a better-than-50% chance of getting accepted to any of the colleges (her school considered her a strong HYPS candidate), but even with that 2-for-9 is hardly a statistical impossibility. Or, it may have been that something in her applications sounded an off note. (The 8 applications she filed in December were chosen and completed in a frenzy, since no one had seriously considered the possibility that she would not be accepted ED.)</p>

<p>The experience was hard on the girl and her family, of course. There were lots of quivering lips as bad news seemed to come daily in late March. A year later, though, she was ecstatic as a college student, and no one cared about whatever had gone wrong with her applications (if anything had).</p>

<p>How about the forms which rate the student's personal qualities with boxes numbered 1-5 or 1-10? They ask for "warmth of personality", "sense of humor". etc. Sometimes teenagers don't exhibit perfection in their personalites (esp. to gcs or teachers). These forms can sometimes separate applicants.</p>

<p>I would not worry about recommendation sabotage because I think you would have seen rejection (unlikely in your terminology) rather than possible. If stinker recommendations were sinking your D the response would be more negative.</p>

<p>Financial and yield issues do influence colleges. My kids were wait listed/rejected at lower tier schools than they were accepted at. The need-blind schools came through.</p>

<p>However, UChicago should be need-blind.</p>

<p>It's very late in the process, but I would send something really wonderful to each school to knock your daughter off the bubble. UChicago loves wit; S was accepted with a very witty essay. Research each school and discover what each values. Then overnight or send priority mail to regional admissions person saying something about the possible and offering "something else to show how much I'd contribute to your community" or some such. Music, wit, writing, whatever you got. Decisions are being made right up to the last minute, and you only need one acceptance you like, so it's worth a shot.</p>

<p>In case this is new to you, but yield I mean a college may feel your D is overqualified for their pool. This happened to S at Bates. It does happen.</p>

<p>My understanding is that deferrals were way up this year, particularly at schools like Chicago, which had huge increases in applications. I know quite a number of students who got "surprise" deferrals at a number of schools this year. It could just be a need for more time to evaluate the complete application. Worse--I know students who got bigger surprises with denials. You're in MUCH better shape than them.</p>

<p>While I think you're smart to go back over the applications, I'm not surprised that you haven't uncovered an explanation. Best of luck to your daughter in the coming stress-filled weeks.</p>

<p>"I am amazed at how much you all seem to know about his process. I feel like I was underprepared, and maybe my daughter has paid the price. It was her HS college counselor who told us whether the colleges to which she applied were reach, target or safety. I think the counselor called UC a "target" based on GPA at her high school, and who had been admitted with that GPA (and test scores, etc.) from the school. I looked up the schools in a college guide book to see how her scores compared."</p>

<p>Same for me. I knew this would be a very competitive year, and I thought we had adjusted by submitting more apps to a broader range of schools. But now I really think we have misjudged it.</p>

<p>My daughter was deferred with an EA application from Univ of Chicago 2 years ago, admitted in the spring. As someone else noted, Chicago is need-blind in admissions so financial aid does not come into the equation. So I wouldn't read too much into a Chicago deferral. My d also submitted supplemental material, including a second essay and a graded writing sample, after the deferral. </p>

<p>However, I would also note that it is a huge mistake to look at GPA or test scores as being a guarantee of anything at Chicago -- they have a very strong applicant pool. Chicago claims that they do not weigh test scores heavily, and my d's scores were below their mid-range -- so I think that anyone who looks at the "stats" of being indicative of much is making a mistake. I think GPA is probably very important to Chicago, but I'd assume that almost all of their students have strong GPA's.</p>

<p>My d's essays to Chicago (and elsewhere) were humorous and self-deprecating. In fact, one reason she submitted extra material after the deferral was show her more serious side --our assumption at that point was that her app had made someone smile, thereby saving it from the reject pile, but that more was needed to make a case for admission. When my d received the deferral letter, she gave out a whoop for joy, celebrating the fact that she had not been rejected. </p>

<p>Ad coms will draw inferences about personality from all the material submitted, and it is just as likely that the fault comes from the applicant's own essays or short answers on the application form. From past experience on the boards, reading student's posted essays, I think that Chicago applicants sometimes put too much effort into trying to portray themselves as intellectual giants -- and sometimes the essays they think are wonderful may undistinguished in the eyes of the ad com. (Unfortunately the Chicago prompts tend to invite this -- my d. chose the option of writing her own question, and came up with a rather silly one at that). But at least we know that she never came off as arrogant or pretentious. In any case, the other kid at her school who also applied to Chicago & got in had better grades and stats -- so my d. never would have had a chance if she had cast herself in the role of "best" from her school. </p>

<p>I don't think it makes sense to be second guessing the process in early March; most likely there will be pleasant surprises ahead at the end of the month. But I do think sometimes students who are high achievers, and/or their parents, have a misguided sense of entitlement -- not only wanting to get accepted, but wanting to be among the few who receive some sort of early write or scholarship invitation. "Getting in" does not necessarily mean that you get in ahead of the others.</p>

<p>Thanks to you all. There is so much to process, it's overwhelming. I now realize we were sort of led down the primrose path, and too eagerly accepted the journey, resulting in the "misguided sense of entitlement" that calmom mentioned. One big slice of humble pie for me at lunch today!</p>

<p>Well, the point I really wanted to make was that in the end, if the kid gets in, it doesn't matter whether there was an EA admission or a "likely letter" or an early invitation to attend some sort of scholarship or recruiting event. And when only a small percentage of the admitted class gets those early write letters, you cannot look at the lack of one as a sign of impending rejection.</p>

<p>If money is important, then it is true that some schools leverage aid in a way that favors stronger applicants -- but if your kid ends up having to turn down a school because of insufficient financial aid, at least it feels like YOU are making the choice to reject the school.</p>