Ten schools is PLENTY, provided you are selecting each school strategically for likelihood of admission & money, rather than treating the process like a bindfolded dartboard throw.
My son’s high school limited the number of apps to 8 (though they counted the UCs as 1). The rationale of the high school was to make students think through their choices, not just blindly apply to all 8 ivies.
I thought this was enormously unfair to students who were aiming toward the more selective schools, especially for families that needed financial aid or those who didn’t have good in-state options or students with unbalanced profiles.
As it turned out, my son applied and was accepted ED, but had he gone to the RD round I surely would have come to blows with the counselor. 12 years ago, a list of 12 would have been about right for my son. Today I think he would need 15 to 20.
If you feel your daughter is being steered in the wrong direction by her counselor, then you have every reason to get involved. Depending on the high school, the counselor can be a significant power behind admissions, so you have to be tactful, but really it’s your family and your daughter’s education that’s at stake. You have to be her advocate.
My advice would be that she should apply to as many as she can competently handle: Not just by throwing a handful of darts and hoping that some stick, but having a thoughtful incremental strategy in the application process.
Start with the EA or ED choice(s). ED can be a godsend, but only if your financial situation allows it. EA is a win-win situation which can considerably reduce anxiety – and the subsequent number of applications. Either way, after the early results come in she can recalibrate her list, add some, take some off.
Then move on to the the safety or safeties. Make sure these applications are as thorough and heartfelt as the reaches’.
Next do the applications for her top choice schools no matter what the selectivity. I’m not that concerned about the demarcation between reach-y matches and match-y reaches as long as the safeties are financially and emotionally safe.
If she still has time and energy apply to a few more, but stay in the same general personality type as her favorites.
This really makes no sense to me. The only way to get in is to apply. If you don’t apply it will be considerably “more difficult for YOU to get in”.
Applications to UCs and CSUs should count as zero schools from the high school’s point of view, since they require no counselor or teacher recommendations or other support from the high school. Any limitations should be based on the number of unique recommendations or other items asked of the high school.
Is this a public or private school?
It really depends on the student and the family. Is the student ready to play the college admissions version of ‘The Bachelor’ and fall in love with any of the 15 or 20 schools that they are applying to? I’m a firm believer in only applying to schools that you are fully willing to attend. For the family - can they afford all of those application fees, fees to submit SAT and ACT scores, PROFILE fees? Can they afford to visit most or all of the schools? Are they ready to help their kid deal with the snail mail and electronic demands for additional information, supplemental submissions and deadlines?
I’d be wary of generalizing too much from what people post here - IMO, bulletin boards like CC likely attract a certain type of parent who probably does more online research than is typical. Based on discussions with some other parents in our middle class NY school district, I get the sense that a significant number of families would be overwhelmed by a kid applying to 15 or 20 schools. Maybe that is what the GC’s are trying to avoid, although I would hope that they are willing to make exceptions based on the needs and capabilities of individual students.
The GC’s advise is actually not bad, however, it is up to you to decide to spend the extra money and time to hunt for something near impossible. Applying to more reach schools does not necessarily increase your chance to get admit by any one of them. It would make more sense to have a budget set and then first fill the spots with a handful or so matching schools and a couple safeties. Each additional school added to the list would cost you more and dilute your effort (e.g. time spent on the essay).
I am told that in these days before the magma cooled that college accepted photocopied recommendations.
Calicash, if you are going to go through the college app cycle again, looking for full ride, apps, you may well need more than 10 apps. For such kids, 10 is minimal if they are looking for sleep away options, not local schools, living at home, and if they do not qualify for a lot of financial aid,just merit, it could wel number in the teens. There was a story about one incredible young woman who needed both a full ride and wanted a top school. The time, work she put in to get those options was daunting, and, yes, she applied to about a dozen schools.
If you are happy with one true safety and a couple strong matches I don’t know why you need more unless you are striving for merit. If that is all you need then you can go after several reaches and keep it under ten total applications.
Believe everyone when they say that quality essays at each require a good deal of time and effort. You may be applying to honors or other programs requiring further essays.
Some student and their parents so want a selective school that they want to have the best chances of getting into one. Yes, by doing multi apps well, they might increase their chances. It’s up to the student and family to go for it, IMO. Some schools do limit the number of apps. Many do not. Actually, a counselor suggesting limiting the number is not a big deal. Trying to pressure a family who is all set to do a lot of apps is a whole other story. Most kids are not capable of the work and organization needed to apply to a whole lot of apps. BUt if an organized, informed parent is involved, that’s a whole other story. My son only had to keep track of about 7 apps for a very short time period, and had a tough time doing so–due to some family health issues and tragedies, husband and I were not on task for him as we were with some of our other kids. Son is one of the more diligent and organized kids I know, but it was still tough. And my other son who had about 15 school on list who is probably the most disciplined kid I’ve met still needed parental help to keep the apps in top shape. Applying to a large number of schools is no free ticket in the lottery. There are prices to pay.
@readytoroll Can you give us her stats and the list of selective schools and safeties you are considering? That would make the commentary more productive.
How we can advice if we do not know why your “D is looking at selective schools”?
There are many reasons and they will lead to a different list.
On the other hand, why listen to a GC at all? We did not. My D. stood on her own not only in HS, but also later applying to Med. Schools. She fully repsected her otherwise very helpful GC in HS and pre-med advisor at college, but her list was HERS, not theirs.
The correct answer is that it depends and any single number like 5, 10, 12, 8 whatever, doesn’t take into account the multitude of factors that goes into this decision.
If you need merit aid, then the number ought to be higher. If you are full pay, then I have a rational algorithm that we used very successfully.
Step 1: Identify a list of schools that you would be happy to attend. Rank them the best that you can.
Step 2: Using Naviance, or some other rational method, assess the chances of being admitted into each school. Naviance is nice because it conditions out GPA and SAT which are usually important factors. We rounded this probability to 1 significant digit. (i.e. 0.1, 0.2, 0.3, …). Zero is a possible result.
Step 3: Assuming that the ranking is correct, and assuming that each decision is independent, which is a reasonable approximation for Naviance where GPA and SAT are factored out, then calculate the probability of attending each school. That is the probability of admission multiplied by the probability of denial (1-probability of admission) for each more preferable school.
Step4: Eliminate any school that could not be a first choice school whose probability of attending is less than 5%. Recalculate the probability of attending.
Step5: Add 2 safety schools. These are schools where a properly fill out application will result in an admittance. If demonstrated interest, or some other soft factor can make or break the school’s decision, it isn’t a safety unless it has early action or rolling admission and you will hear for sure before Jan 1. Any school where an admission is achieved early becomes a safety and the chances move to 100%. If it’s a high choices, many lower choices can be eliminated.
This algorithm will prevent the student from wasting time on applications where the probability of attending is very small. This probability can be small because its very competitive and it’s a low choice or it can be small because there are so many more preferable choices that it is simply unlikely to be the school the student attends.
It would be very hard for this algorithm to result in more than 10 applications unless the top choices are really uber competitive.
Our personal experience has been that 10 would not have been enough applications. My D and I have the last year touring 25-30 schools from the Canadian border to PA and researching each and every one thoroughly. In the end, she applied to 19. Total cost for travel expenses, applications and testing was about $5000. We took the universal advice that a “white girl from the NE with a 4.0 is the kiss of death”. I can’t tell you just how true that turned out to be. Her stats were 2070, 4.2UW, 4.8W, IB Diploma, GS Gold Award, senior class VP, top 5% in the #1 high school in Mass, fantastic recs. Unfortunately she is not a great test taker and couldn’t hit the 2100 mark even after 3 tries.
We started our list with the “reaches” being a couple of the top 20 liberal arts colleges and the “matches” being schools with acceptance rates of 30-60%. The academic safeties were anything below that, but we only had one true safety, and that was UMassAmherst, which we knew would fall into budget. When she went to her advisor, they suggested that her list was too “safety-oriented” and a true match school was in the 20-30% tier. I disagreed but we upped the ante so to speak.
In the end, D applied to five “safety” schools EA to make sure we had something on the table and to chase that elusive merit aid. Once UMAmherst Honors came in, we knew she had her safety but honestly, she said she would only go there if there were no other choice at all (that has since changed). We were hoping for two full scholarships but neither happened. She was deferred to one match EA but was accepted RD and it remains on the end list.
In the end, there were five reaches, one ED to a very high reach which she was rejected. Of the other four, she was rejected at one and WL at the other three, all four were her top choices. These schools were about 25-30% acceptance rate (I considered them reaches, her guidance counselor considered them match schools). Of the schools in the 35-50% rating, she was accepted to six of them I believe ~ most gave her merit aid at $20-25K ~ only four made the financial cut, waiting on one still.
If we had to do it again, she’d apply to only 2-3 safeties. If $$ were not an issue, she would have applied elsewhere for ED but she picked a great school that was FAFSA only (Vanderbilt). Choices were limited and she might have picked an LAC in the Northeast if that was not the case, and probably had a better chance of admission (we knew Vandy was a shot in the dark lol).
So, I think given the amount of schools she was waitlisted at when we thought originally they were “match schools”, the list could have been altered a bit. Her advisor is shocked at the results. After being on CC, I am not. I wonder how much experience this guidance counselor has had in the northeast college market search.
So, in retrospect, 2-3 safeties, 2-3 reaches/high matches, and 5-6 low match schools, topping out at 12 or so, would have been sufficient. One thing I would have concentrated on more diligently is determining what the school is looking for in their student body, not the other way around.
Good luck! D still has the last four remaining choices on the table and will be re-visiting two of the schools to make her decision. 24 more days and this is over !
NEPatsGirl, that sounds like a grueling search. I hope she has some choices that she is happy with.
How would that have affected her search? She still is who she is.
Well, because she isn’t entirely set on a major and has many interests, it might have opened other doors for her. Example is that she applied as a biochem major/Latin American Studies double or minor at nearly every school (neuroscience at a couple) but has most recently become interested in computer science. I may be wrong but I think there are schools that value apps from top female students interested in that field and that might have given her a bump?
It was a grueling search and honestly, she has two good choices at the moment and she’ll be happy at either but they were not (and still are not) where she would have chosen if any of her top high matches hadn’t waitlisted her. These were not tippy top reach schools, but those in the 25%- 30% rankings.
Makes sense.
Isn’t that the goal though? To be happy?
It’s easy to lose sight of that in the heat of competition, but your story is a success story!
A big caveat is the program you are applying to. Engineering, PT/PA/OT, etc. can be highly competitive even at a school that appears to be a safety based on SAT and GPA match.
A couple of my D’s teachers only agree to write 3 LORs including scholarships. Unless most of the schools are on CommonApp, it would be hard to apply to many schools with good LORs in that case.
I used to think 10 was crazy, but now I don’t think 15 is, for most of the reasons others have given. My kids didn’t know what size school they wanted. If they had settled on size and distance, fewer applications would have made more sense. The more you can pin down the parameters, the fewer applications needed.