<p>It seems that the councilors role varies across the country. </p>
<p>I tend to be in the same camp as the OP and others who wonder what is the point. Our councilor changes after 9-11 and we get a new person for senior year. The senior councilor cannot begin to know 300+ students in a public HS in 6-8 weeks when they are suppose to be answering questions about a particular student. Furthermore, past experience has shown the councilor is somewhat flakey and very unorgainized.</p>
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I would say that most high school students don't have a very close relationship with their guidance counselors. So, why do we still have to waste everybody's time with this exercise in futility? Can't a sheet in which they fill in our rank, GPA, etc be enough. Why waste their time, my time, and frankly the admissions officer's time with this pointless exercise?
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Au contraire!! You assume it has no purpose, when in fact at many schools it serves an excellent purpose. It should come as no surprise to you that most colleges are not "need-blind"; outside of a handful of wealthy schools, most schools DO care about how much of a discount they have to give. While it may explicitly come up when comparing student A to B for the last few admits, most colleges would prefer an approach that silently factors in parental income from the start. And counselor rec's are a great way to do this.</p>
<p>If your folks can pony up for a private HS or afford to live in a pricy neighborhood with great public schools, the counselor ratio is much better and they make a point of getting to know the kids. Either way, these are the kids many schools would prefer to admit from a money point-of-view because their parents can pay full-freight, and so when they are reading recs the ones with the glowing recs from counselors instead of the impersonal summaries naturally flow to the top.</p>
<p>If you think many schools don't care about the counselor rec, you are wrong.
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Q: I attend a large public school where my counselor doesn't know me well. Will I be at a disadvantage because this person couldn't possibly write anything insightful about me? </p>
<p>Gary Ripple, now director of admissions at Pennsylvania's Lafayette College, was asked this question when he was admissions dean at Virginia's College of William and Mary. He said to the student questioner: "I wonder why your counselor doesn't know you. Your counselor probably has over 300 students he or she is responsible for. You should take the initiative to get to know your counselor. At William and Mary, we look for students who take charge of their lives." The student sank slowly into his seat, Ripple recalls.
What</a> School Is Right for You? - US News and World Report
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<p>At our HS the kids have one counselor for their first three years...then for some unknown reason ALL the seniors are transferred to the "college" counselor who writes their school recommendation, based on perhaps one or two 15-minute meetings. When my S tried to make an appt for the second one, she said she "knew him well enough" already. </p>
<p>She knew so much that she failed to include the state/national-level honors he won jr year, mis-described his major ECs, didn't mention his school-level honors, didn't mention any of the ways in which he had demonstrated intellectual passion (such as independent studies and summer programs) and really completely failed to give any sense of who he was. What she did was recycle the garbled piece she wrote about him for a jr year book award. I recognized it.</p>
<p>When we tried to make an appointment with her, we couldn't get one.</p>
<p>I have little doubt that it harmed him in admissions at a couple of schools.</p>
<p>Sybbie, you are not the average guidance counselor.</p>
<p>Consolation:</p>
<p>I'm sorry that you felt that your son's counselor was inadequate to say the least. However, I don't think college admissions officers are stupid. If they note any discrepancies between your son's application and the counselor's recommendation, I'd imagine they'd want to follow up. Surely if your son has won those state/national-level honors, then they could quickly look it up, or quickly make a phonecall. Besides, I don't think people would be stupid enough to lie on their college applications about national or state level honors, or competitions that they have won, so I'm sure that the admissions officers gave him the benefit of doubt. Or I could just be horribly wrong.</p>
<p>Wow. At my school there would definitely be no way to just schedule an appointment with a counselor and say "Hi, I'm getting to know you". You have to have a scheduling conflict or be suicidal or something.</p>
<p>It's interesting how different schools are in different places.</p>
<p>Okay, didn't read the other posts. But, I know all 3 of our counselors at our 1300 kid public school. One calls my house whenever she sees anything remotely related to some school or statistics (and TIVOs Scrubs for me when I stop in and tell her I'll miss it), another is my track coach, so he sees me everyday and calls when he talks to some recruiting coach or to check on my eating habits lol. The last I know a little less, but she is actually my counselor (done alphabetically). I really don't talk to her that much, but I'll stop by her office every other week or so.</p>
<p>I think the solution is to GET TO KNOW YOUR COUNSELORS!!! It's not hard, and you'll benefit so much with monopolies on scholarship HS nominations, the best teachers and class schedules, etc. My counselor offered to let me take one less period than seniors are allowed to take, all because they know and love me. Show some love back before it's too late.</p>
<p>I'm with elwoodblues. Counselors at our school demand to see blood at the door.</p>
<p>Well, okay, I'm exaggerating, but stopping by to just "chat" would definitely not fly. My counselor emails me scholarship opportunities and helps me with app questions -- but if I ever showed up with cocoa and childhood stories about myself, she'd be like, What are you doing?</p>
<p>I go to a small school where we only have one counselor for all 4 years of high school, so I'm pretty close to my counselor. I've gone to see her for various issues, both academic and personal, so she's knows me on a level some of my actual teachers don't, and has assured me her rec will be glowing. So basically, the Counselor Rec is actually a huge plus in my situation.</p>
<p>I have to laugh when people say "get to know your counselor." Son is on his third in 4 years; plus there is about a 1:500 ratio.</p>
<p>Anyway, what I think what the schools REALLY want to know from the counselor is whether you've been a discipline problem, and perhaps an attendance problem. Your ECs are in your application. But how else is the school going to know if you've been repeatedly suspended or whether you've been sent to the alternative school.</p>
<p>"...I am in early, I stay late, I am always available during their lunch hour, I hold groups, pop into classrooms, have a separated dedicated e-mail just for the students on my caseload and right now my calendar is booked for one on one appointments with my seniors."</p>
<p>You are a rarity in your profession, unfortunately. I remember in high school going into the counselor's office before school, after school, at lunch, and during my out period and being faced with a closed door every time. When I would leave a note it would take a week for me to hear from them. They made it very clear that they were there to answer questions about scheduling and college and then they wanted you out of their office. This is a common experience at many schools.</p>
<p>It is absolutely the student's responsibility to be proactive in getting to know their counselor, but I'm sure you wouldn't want us knocking down your door. Counselors should be doing what you are doing, but unfortunately, many are not. And that accelerates the high school-aged person's difficulty in making a connection. It's a two-way street. By the way, this is coming from someone who is seriously considering high school guidance counseling as a career choice.</p>
<p>College counselors probably write recommendations so that at least someone can comment on your entire high school experience. Teachers are only familiar with how a student did junior (or senior) year, one period a day. Colleges aren't stupid. They know that counselors know virtually nothing- they want the recommendation to help highlight things that the student and the teacher recs may have missed.</p>
<p>im pretty sure nobody was preventing any of you from scheduling more appts. with ur counselor...you say u met 3 times...well scchedule more appts with ur counselor then</p>
<p>Why would I schedule appointments that I don't need? All I need to do is change my schedule to fit the college classes I take. Like somebody said earlier you don't just make appointments to share life stories and socialize.</p>
<p>That's so funny, because like I said, my counselors do know me very well. Much better than any teacher. How do I prove that I'm in the counseling office 2-3 times per week and the counselors really do know me really well? They know my favorite colors, 2 of 3 counselors bought me a gift for my birthday, I bring them gifts on their birthdays, they have my home and cell phone numbers stored into their personal cell phones and I have their home & cell numbers.</p>
<p>I understand that I'm different from most of the other students at my school, but like I said, there are people in MY situation out there too. And there must be ways to get that "in" with your counselors at the beginning of your HS career because I did it and our school has 3 counselors for a little over 1300 kids.</p>
<p>And how would you feel, msneicirenee, if you had made the effort in 9th and 10th grades to become best buds with your counselor, then she left, then you had made the effort in 11th grade to become best buds with your new counselor, then she left....Would you have been able to become best buds with the new new counselor in the 3 weeks time between the start of school and when you invited her to do a common app rec?</p>
<p>actually. the whole point of having a counselor is to in fact share your life stories and socialize. Im not talking about informing them what you did last friday...im talking more about what are your interests, your thoughts on where you want to go to college, what classes you like, your test scores, your extra activities at school. Give the counselor a sense of who who are so that they can help guide yo into your future</p>
<p>"Give the counselor a sense of who who are so that they can help guide yo into your future."</p>
<p>Do you go to a public school? A counselor who just arrived at the school 4 weeks ago and is responsible for 500+ kids is supposed to help guide my son into his future? It's laughable. They would have to have at least 4 times as many counselors before they could even begin to have time to do that.</p>
<p>missypie- I do think it's unfortunate that counselors at some schools have such high turnover rates. Because we don't switch counselors by class and all of our counselors have been here for at least 8 years, so if you become friends with more than one, it's really unlikely that they'll both leave before your senior year (at least at my school).</p>
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Do you go to a public school? A counselor who just arrived at the school 4 weeks ago and is responsible for 500+ kids is supposed to help guide my son into his future? It's laughable.
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<p>missy,</p>
<p>I work at a public school and I held an orientation just for my new students. I have met on more than once occassion with my new seniors to explain my role in the college process. I have also been in touch with the counselor at their former school via phone and e-mail (as I had to get a copy of their transcripts to update their previous work into the NYC DOE system). The former counselor(s) will send me official copies of all of transcripts, which I will send with the transcripts/report cards from our school to the colleges when the time comes. </p>
<p>I e-mailed my students a brag sheet to which they will responded back to both me and their former counselor and we will both write letters for his application on behalf of the new seniors.</p>
<p>But then again I run an advisories for my entire junior caseload strictly on the college process (where we cover everything from soup to nuts. Have to give a shout to Calreader, as we discussed affordability stories, which we will do when we talk about FA). </p>
<p>I give all my seniors a college planning book the last week of junior year, so when they return in the fall they know all of my due dates for the school year. When my seniors start the the year, they are pretty much set ( I pass out the lastest scholarship information, keep them abreast of school visits, trips, etc) so I can focus on the next group. </p>
<p>Is it cake? Nope, not in the least. Does it take a lot of work and planning on my part and the part of my students? Absolutely! I am also lucky that I have a supportive AP-Guidance and a leadership team.</p>
<p>I ask my students what can I do to make the process better for them and they respond. I also let them know what they can do to help me to give them my best work. It is a 2-way street. </p>
<p>BTW, there is some method to msneicirenee's madness as students who pop by more often are pretty much always the first to know new opportunities :)</p>
<p>You sound like you're trying very hard. Our counselors have an annual Senior Night where they present the same power point that I don't think they've updated in four years. (It encourages them to take the Writing part of the SAT.)</p>
<p>Son's current counselor seems like at least she's trying. The first counselor was a fountain of mis-information. The second forwarded every single email of mine to someone else because she knew nothing. (She came from a middle school and went back to middle school after one year.)</p>
<p>Hopefully this new counselor will stay. Daughter has her, too (it's alphabetical).</p>