Counselor's CSS Advice

<p>Daughter was told to ignore parts of the CSS Profile form that she didn't want to fill out i.e., the part about her bum dad. After reading all of the posts here regarding parents who simply won't contribute (or fill out their portion of the form) due to multiple problems--mental illness, addiction, etc., I don't know how wise this information really is. It would be great to simply ignore him on the CSS form but maybe this is simply not allowed. We don't know what to do. There have been multiple trips to family court over his behavior so I don't think he's contributing to any college tuition. My daughter can't wait to get away from this whole horrible situation. Can we just leave him off the form as if he doesn't exist because in a way, he doesn't. If we can't do that, do you think court papers would suffice for a waiver? If he is left off the form, does that mean won't process it all?</p>

<p>First, if you are divorced YOU don’t put the information on your Profile. The Dad is required by some schools to complete a non-custodial parent Profile. He puts his info on that form. You put yours on the other one. That way neither parent gets the “financial info” that is the other parent’s information. </p>

<p>You need to contact the schools where your daughter is applying. Ask if they require the non-custodial parent Profile info. Some do and some don’t. If they DO require it, you will have to provide it or the school will NOT process your daughter’s application for institutional aid (she can still receive a Stafford loan and things like a Pell grant if she is eligible…but not institutional money).</p>

<p>If the school REQUIRES the non-custodial parent info, you will have difficulty just saying you can’t or won’t provide it.</p>

<p>Some schools that use the Profile do NOT require the non-custodial parent form. Perhaps your daughter’s choices don’t. Check and see.</p>

<p>Or post the list here…others might know.</p>

<p>Oh…and if you file the Profile…don’t leave blanks where you are supposed to fill in information.</p>

<p>I looked on the chart that has been posted here and it appears that two of her choices do require his information. The schools she is interested in are Tufts, UVA, UNC Chapel Hill, Boston University and George Washington. I called Tufts today and was told there is a non custodial waiver form but I am not sure it’s even worth filling out. It sounds virtually impossible to get a waiver. Oh, well, all is not lost. I will do the best I can for my child with or without his help. I just think it’s weird that another adult who helps applicants would just say leave out his information. His situation is so bad that I paid to have his taxes done last year just so I could get information from him. He hadn’t filed in 10 years! I don’t understand how someone could be like this. It’s just an unbelievable situation that I thought would end when she turns 18. Now, it looks like it goes on another 4 years. It’s ironic that my child is the complete opposite of her parents. She is smart, talented and motivated. This will not stop her from doing well in her life.</p>

<p>*She is smart, talented and motivated. This will not stop her from doing well in her life. *</p>

<p>Be sure to have your D apply to some financial safety schools. These are schools that will give her large merit scholarships for her stats.</p>

<p>*I will do the best I can for my child with or without his help. *</p>

<p>I know that you want to do what you can for your D, but if that requires you to take out large loans each year, that may end up being a disaster if one year you won’t qualify. Every year that you borrow money, your credit rating is hurt. Some parents find that they can’t qualify for the next year’s loans.</p>

<p>What schools are your D’s financial safety schools (these are schools that she’ll get accepted and you are certain are affordable because of your funds and/or assured scholarships.</p>

<p>Thanks for the advice. My daughter’s safety schools are University of Maryland (we are in MD), St. Mary’s College of MD, College of Charleston and UNC Charlotte. I am not sure I understand the CSS Profile for a non custodial parent. IF the school does not require it, then the father’s information is never given, right? So, according to the chart that I found here, when it says Non Custodial Profile - NO, then no information from the father even though I have put his name down in the CSS Profile section naming a non custodial parent. In other words, some schools simply do not use this information, right? One more thing to add, my daughter if First Generation. I wonder how this may factor in to this whole process. Thanks again for all the help.</p>

<p>The issue is that few schools that meet 100% of need don’t require the NCP info. The pens that don’t generally don’t because they are not handing out big grants.</p>

<p>*I am not sure I understand the CSS Profile for a non custodial parent. IF the school does not require it, then the father’s information is never given, right? *</p>

<p>If a school doesn’t use NCP info, then his info won’t be used. However, schools that don’t use NCP info are typically ones that don’t meet need. So, sometimes those schools aren’t any better for a student who has large need.</p>

<p>*my daughter if First Generation. *</p>

<p>You mean “first generation” to go to college, right?</p>

<p>That doesn’t help with financial aid. That helps with admissions a bit because there is an assumption that such a child didn’t grow up with the benefit of highly educated parents, and therefore the student’s scores might be understandably a bit lower.</p>

<p>Also, a few schools offer a very small scholarship (like $1000) to some first generation students. You have to check websites to see if your D’s schools do this.</p>

<p>Do you know what your EFC is? If not, try this to get a quick estimate.</p>

<p>Quick EFC
[FinAid</a> | Calculators | QuickEFC](<a href=“Your Guide for College Financial Aid - Finaid”>Quick EFC - Finaid)
</p>

<p>*My daughter’s safety schools are University of Maryland (we are in MD), St. Mary’s College of MD, College of Charleston and UNC Charlotte. *</p>

<p>These schools can only be safeties IF you KNOW FOR SURE that you can afford to send her there. If you’re unsure of how costs will get covered, then those schools are not safeties. Some people don’t take that into consideration and then they find that they can’t afford their safeties because they forgot to consider cost. I don’t think any of those schools meet need. I think they all gap.</p>

<p>A Safety school is also referred to as a “financial safety”. That means that you’re sure of admittance AND you’re sure that costs will be covered by family funds and/or ASSURED scholarships.</p>

<p>For instance…UMaryland has a direct COA of $19k per year (plus $3k per year for personal expenses and transportation).</p>

<p>Let’s say your EFC is $6500. The financial aid package from UMaryland may only include a $5500 student loan and $2000 in work study. That means your aid package will be worth $7500. Adding that to your EFC, that comes to $14k. You’d have a gap of at least $5k. So, you would have to pay about $11,500 out of pocket.</p>

<p>Do you know how much you can afford to spend each year? </p>

<p>What are your D’s stats? If they’re high enough, there are some schools that she can apply to that would give her generous merit scholarships. Those schools could be her financial safety schools. :)</p>

<p>Wow, this is overwhelming. I thought a state school would certainly be our best safety. We do have money in a 529 via her grandparents and me. This gap then is when we apply our 529 funds, right? Also, having money in a 529 will hurt her finance package or does it just make the gap bigger. Sorry to have so many questions, but its pretty complicated. Gee, even doing this form is not easy. I cannot imagine a student filling out this profile.</p>

<p>holly210,</p>

<p>Which county are you in, and what is your daughter’s likely major? Your financial safety (at least for the first two years) might be one of the MD community colleges. For a full listing of all the programs offered in the MD public system, have your daughter ask her high school guidance counselor for a copy of “College411: A Student Guide to Higher Education & Financial Aid in Maryland”. If the 2010-2011 edition isn’t available yet, get a copy of the one for 2009-2010. All of the information is also at the MHEC website [url=&lt;a href=“http://www.MDgo4it.org%5DMDgo4it%5B/url”&gt;http://www.MDgo4it.org]MDgo4it[/url</a>] but I find that harder to read than the paper edition. Her guidance counselor should be able to tell you if UM or St. Mary’s are academic safeties.</p>

<p>If your daughter has good grades and test scores, there are a number of state merit scholarships available that can be used at any institution in Maryland. Some can be taken out of Maryland if the program the student enrolls in is not offered anywhere in the state. I have forgotten the details, but as I recall, in order to be considered for the maximum grant, she should list the most expensive private institution in the state (usually Johns Hopkins) on the FAFSA when she first files it in January (whether or not she actually plan to apply there). I think she also has to list MHEC somehow. If your guidance office doesn’t know the details, make an appointment with the financial aid officer at any college or university in Maryland and surely they will.</p>

<p>Good luck with everything!</p>

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<p>As was stated above, you do ignore the non-custodial parent’s income and assets when you fill out the custodial CSS form. You don’t report the father’s financial information at all. The father would then have to fill out the non-custodial form himself if required by the school. If he refuses, then some schools will work with you to understand why a waiver would be required, and some schools won’t.</p>

<p>You report the 529 accounts on the Profile form, both yours and any that the grandparents have established for the benefit of your daughter. These funds will be used to calculate your daughter’s expected family contribution (EFC). What percent they’re assessed for Profile schools is up to the school - there’s not a general rule. For FAFSA-only schools, you do not report grandparent-owned 529s on the FAFSA form, and parent-owned 529s are only add 5.6% of the 529 funds to the total EFC.</p>

<p>*I thought a state school would certainly be our best safety. *</p>

<p>Many people make that mistake. They don’t realize that most state schools do NOT have institutional aid to give so they end up with big gaps in coverage. I’ve just been helping a student who thought the same thing, and now he realizes that he will not likely be able to afford his flagship because of the big gap he’ll likely get (his flagship doesn’t give any/much merit). He was shocked because he assumed that his flagship was his safety.</p>

<p>Do the Quick EFC (include the 529 money) and tell us what you think of the number. </p>

<p>What are your D’s stats (GPA and test scores - including SAT breakdown). You mention that she’s smart. If so, her best safety may be a school that will give her big merit for her stats.</p>

<p>I would not recommend that your D use a CC as her safety if she can get big merit from a university. Transfer students don’t get big merit, so the best opportunities are as an incoming freshmen. So, if she has the stats for big merit, those schools should be her safeties.</p>

<p>Just a few comments…</p>

<p>As far as instate aid in Maryland, you need to run a calculator to find out what your EFC is. </p>

<p>[EFC</a> Calculator: How Much Money for College Will You Be Expected to Contribute?](<a href=“http://apps.collegeboard.com/fincalc/efc_welcome.jsp]EFC”>http://apps.collegeboard.com/fincalc/efc_welcome.jsp)</p>

<p>The state of Maryland has some generous grants but you need to find out for what your child might be eligible. Watch those deadlines.</p>

<p>[State</a> Financial Aid Programs](<a href=“http://www.mhec.maryland.gov/financialAid/descriptions.asp]State”>http://www.mhec.maryland.gov/financialAid/descriptions.asp)</p>

<p>Actually, UMd has some rather competitive merit scholarships for kids with top stats. Here is a link to the financial aid page. Note that St Mary’s says merit is available to a ‘select’ number of students:
[UMd-CP</a> Scholarships](<a href=“http://www.financialaid.umd.edu/scholarships/]UMd-CP”>http://www.financialaid.umd.edu/scholarships/)
[Financial</a> Aid: St. Mary’s College of Maryland](<a href=“http://www.smcm.edu/financialaid/index.html]Financial”>Office of Student Financial Assistance - Office of Student Financial Assistance)</p>

<p>OP, one other thing… St Mary’s and UMd-CP are the most expensive 4 year colleges in your state respectively. There are cheaper instate alternatives. The cheapest alternative would be the community college or a 4-year school within commuting distance. Please realize that St Mary’s has direct billable costs for instate students of almost $24K. If any of your 529 money is in prepaid funds, then it actually won’t make a difference but, assuming it’s in a regular 529, note that it’s quite an expensive school even though it’s public. </p>

<p>[St</a>. Mary’s College of Maryland - Costs & Aid - Tuition and Fees](<a href=“http://www.smcm.edu/admissions/costs/costs_tuition.html]St”>http://www.smcm.edu/admissions/costs/costs_tuition.html)</p>

<p>Okay, well I found out some information. Her SATs are Reading 740, Math 660, Writing 680. Her subject tests: Literature 700 and World History 710. Her GPA is 3.7 unweighted. She has gotten all 5’s on her AP exams. She is also very accomplished musican–really. She has played violin since she was 5. She is also a soprano singer. She speaks fluent French (taking AP French now). She just made a CD to send to the colleges of 6 different violin/opera pieces. We are hoping that she will get some money from her music skills. This is why a lot of her schools were picked because of the music department. She is not going to major in music (no money), but will always do something with it. Boston University actually offers a music minor. I used the EFC calculator and it looks like my amount is 12k if I did it right. Her grandparents moved money from her UTMA account into a 529 account. I don’t know exactly what it’s called. They have their bum son named on it. How ironic, right? I pay the taxes though–not him. After all, he doesn’t file taxes. This is the main reason I wanted that non custodial waiver. Hopefully, after this money was moved, it will be different for her taxes. Even though it is still connected to her more than a “regular 529”, it is still less than the UTMA for financial planning purposes. This was the only savings vehicle when she was born–529’s didn’t exist until 1996. I looked at the scholarships at various schools. I don’t have 6 children on an income of 20k per year. Some of them are for a whole different set of circumstances. I am single mom with one child. I make an okay salary. I just wish I had gone to college. I am afraid to say I was in a total fog in my senior year of high school. My mom was killed in a car accident and that was that for my mental state at the time. Counselors didn’t do a whole lot back then. They work their butts off today.</p>

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<p>This is a little unclear. If your daughter was the beneficiary of a UTMA, then that money by law must be used for her benefit (and if it’s held in taxable accounts, then your D would in theory be responsible for the tax bill). The money can legally be transferred to a child-owned 529 (ie owned by her) because it would still be money to be used for her benefit. Are you saying that the 529 is now owned by and is for the benefit of the uncle? Or are you saying that the uncle is the custodian and your daughter is still the beneficiary? The former is illegal; the latter is dubious. If you have an understanding that the 529 funds are your daughter’s, then there’s probably no issue. </p>

<p>Funds in a 529 grow tax-free, so there would be no further need to pay taxes on any gains in that account (regardless of who the custodian is).</p>

<p>Let me be more clear. What I said about the 529 is true but I suppose was written in haste. Her father is named custodial person on her 529 account. It USED to be an UTMA but was changed to something new. What it is called for financial purposes I am not sure yet. When it was an UTMA account I paid the taxes for her. It is her account but is taxed at the parent’s rate. This new account I am unsure of at the moment. Usually, I get the tax bill (for her old UTMA account) in February for my taxes. This year will be different but I don’t know what yet. All I do know is that the money has been moved. It is for her benefit, but unlike the UTMA, it is treated more like a 529. I hope this makes sense. Thanks.</p>

<p>holly, I just wanted to let you know that I got my noncustodial waiver form approved when I was applying to schools and am now a very happy and non-indebted junior at Cornell. Please PM me to discuss- I definitely think you have a good shot at waiving his financial information.</p>

<p>^^^</p>

<p>How would someone who get a waiver when the ex is going to use a 529 account that is in his name towards the child’s education? </p>

<p>Wouldn’t a waiver be for a dad who has been AWOL for most of the child’s life? It doesn’t sound like this dad has been AWOL…just flaky with money.</p>

<p>Of course, anyone can try it, but I would assume that it wasn’t going to work and have good financial backups that are also liked.</p>

<p>With this student’s stats, there are schools that would give big scholarships…she needs to apply to some as financial safety schools.</p>

<p>Yes, it’s true he has been in her life. He is flaky with money, that’s also true. I just don’t want to have to fight him for the next 4 years about money. It’s hard situation that hasn’t been fun over years for anyone. I almost feel sorry for him and then I think that he does this to himself. I truly believe there is mental illness involved here. Because of his involvement over the years in her life, I am not sure about any waiver. I will add on my CSS Profile that we have battled in court on and off over the years and I have a lot of documentation to back this up. What they do with it may or may not help. When her grandparents return this weekend, I will know EXACTLY where her money is re what kind of form.</p>