<p>^^^^ Got to agree, enough is enough and time for him to move or atleast keep it out of the Federal Courts.</p>
<p>nurseypoo...you don't listen to NPR...recently a huge to do about the phase and now "There are no atheists in fox holes" is considered to be NOT PC!</p>
<p>You're right. I don't know what NPR is. I just go by what I observe, like my husband's own war experience.</p>
<p>National Public Radio....Can't say I agree but just pointing out that the phrase has gotten the attention of the press recently and like most things when the press gets a hold of an issue.....</p>
<p>Well, I listen to public radio, mostly Rush. Am at work when most of the good stuff is on. Plus, can't listen to it there, since there is such a dichotomy amongst physicians/surgeons/staff. </p>
<p>When Mike's squadron mate was shot down, taken POW with a horribly fractured leg (the Iraqi's seemed to take great delight in slapping it around a little, just for fun), you couldn't keep people out of the temporary chapel. They stayed open 24/7 until we had him back and on a plane to Andrews to have a surgery on his leg. </p>
<p>I would love to put the press in real harm's way, with a weapon, having to defend a position or take one (not just hanging around with the unit like they're doing), and then hear what they think.</p>
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Well, I listen to public radio, mostly Rush.
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</p>
<p>Heh, heh. Rush would be offended. They're talking about National PEOPLE'S Radio, not PUBLIC radio. ;)</p>
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I would love to put the press in real harm's way, with a weapon, having to defend a position or take one (not just hanging around with the unit like they're doing), and then hear what they think.
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</p>
<p>You'd have to pry them away from the enemy units they love to cover more than our own troops, first. :mad:</p>
<p>I know. What was I thinking! :o</p>
<p>You have a kid about to become a Plebe. Confusion is anticipated.</p>
<p>I'll let you slide. ;)</p>
<p>What is wrong with just praying to whomever you believe in silence? Non sectarian prayer is just fine. We are asking all people of all faiths to possibly die to protect our rights to think the way we do. Should we also force these people to change to our religion because it's ours? </p>
<p>In fighting so hard to have "jesus" in the prayer, how are you different than any commie country outthere that forces it's people to it's will. </p>
<p>They will never take Jesus out of the classroom, lunchroom or foxhole, because they can't change what you think of. However, forcing people to pray aloud to something they may not believe or follow, is corupt at it's core.
Many here just don't realize this because this situation just happens to coinside with their belief system. That is why a communist never sees the problem in what they do, because it's not unusual for them. </p>
<p>Let people worship who they want, quietly.</p>
<p>Opie, no one was forcing anyone to pray to a god they don't believe in. Instead, they were telling this chaplain not to mention the God HE believes in. If you are being led by a Chaplain who is a Christian, what can you expect to hear other than the name of Jesus? </p>
<p>In my time in the Navy, the Chaplains all happened to be Christian, but they offered fairly generic prayers at night before taps. No one complained, including the atheists. Maybe this guy should have done the same thing, and thus avoided all this, but instead he stood up for what he believed in. Where he really messed up was the press conference, because that has NOTHING to do with his religious beliefs or others interpretations of them.</p>
<p>I just can't help but wonder, however, what the hubub (if any) would be if someone complained that a Muslim chaplian had mentioned Allah? I bet the chaplian wouldn't be given so much as a second look. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>Youre missing my point zap, why does prayer need to be spoken by anyone? </p>
<p>Because no one complained when you were there, didn't make it right, it just meant those involved didn't feel safe enough to say anything. </p>
<p>Do you think blacks were "fine" with everything until the civil rights bill passed? I don't think so, but if they spoke out, they risked being harmed. </p>
<p>As far as the muslim remark, do you really think the Navy would allow one over the other? I think the Navy realizes it's a big country they are in charge of defending, with alot of different people. Rather than exclude, they work it out the best they can. You may not like it, but have they forced you from praying to your god? I don't think so, and the guys who maybe wouldn't say s*** if they had a mouthful, can now pray to theirs too, without fear of being different. </p>
<p>Having spent some time in the penecostal chruch, I am very familiar with praying outloud. Speaking in tounges is quite an experience to witness. One begins, another and another, each louder than the previous one. This goes on and on as if they think God (or fellow church members) can't hear them. One has to wonder if they are really praying to God or just showing off. If God knows and hears everything, why shout down your neighbor? </p>
<p>So from my experiences I would rather pray to my god quietly and not have a background soundtrack competition going on.</p>
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Youre missing my point zap, why does prayer need to be spoken by anyone?
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Why must it be silent? Also, he was LEADING prayers. Kinda hard to do silently.</p>
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it just meant those involved didn't feel safe enough to say anything.
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Or maybe they just had the common decency to keep quiet and let others pray in peace. What a concept!</p>
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Do you think blacks were "fine" with everything until the civil rights bill passed? I don't think so, but if they spoke out, they risked being harmed.
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Spare me the theatrics. The comparison is completely wrong. No one in this country is threatened against speaking out against religion. Hell they're more threatened by speaking out in DEFENSE of it.</p>
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As far as the muslim remark, do you really think the Navy would allow one over the other?
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Hell yes. If not them then the PC politicians and the special-interest groups. You know it's true.</p>
<p>The navy is one of the few that does have Muslim chaplains. So, yes they would allow one over the other.</p>
<p>"You know it's true."</p>
<p>Only in your head zap. </p>
<p>"he was LEADING prayers. Kinda hard to do silently"</p>
<p>I think it goes "let's take a momment of silence to pray." So no, not that hard. </p>
<p>"maybe they just had the common decency to keep quiet and let others pray in peace. What a concept!"</p>
<p>While others didn't have the common decency to consider somebody else and their beliefs. What a concept.;) It's a two way street isn't it? You're recognizing the other guy of another belief system common decency by allowing you free reign. Could you in turn apply common decency in the consideration of them? Or is it the other guy who always must submit?</p>
<p>"No one in this country is threatened against speaking out against religion. Hell they're more threatened by speaking out in DEFENSE of it."</p>
<p>Again only in your head zap. Christainity has been the dominate religion for centuries, for centuries. The days of drawing a fish in the dirt are long gone.</p>
<p>Usually those speaking in defense of christianity aren't speaking out in the sense of christainity anyway. They are speaking out in favor of their version of christainity----only. It used to amaze me to sit in those penacostal sundays and hear about how the catholics, mormons, lutherans, methodists and so on were going to burn in hell because they weren't "like us" and didn't appreicate Jesus the "right way". </p>
<p>Even you in this posting only consider your view of Jesus and God as the right one. The only other good people are those willing to submit to your view of how it is. Everybody else is a trouble maker, even for attempting a neutral solution to the issue. </p>
<p>"Hell yes. If not them then the PC politicians and the special-interest groups. You know it's true."</p>
<p>What I know is there are people outthere (like yourself) who have a different view of things. I don't have to accept them as mine, but I don't inturn attach a label (PC, special interest, holy roller, jesus freaks) because we differ.</p>
<p>As far as quiet prayer, it's a situation where just about everyone can say their peice internally out of respect for others in the room. Since God knows everything including your thoughts, do you have to shout? Last time I checked his hearing was fine. He's never once said "eh? come again?" :)</p>
<p>So the only solution you propose is to silence people, eh? Nice.</p>
<p>"Only in my head", heh? Obviously you haven't been paying attention to what has been said of the "dominant" religion these past few decades. Wear a shirt that says, "I love Jesus" and you're called a fanatic and a bigot. Wear one that says, "Jesus sucks" and your rights to "free speech" will be defended all the way to the Supreme Court.</p>
<p>Chaplains lead prayers out loud. Deal with it. While those offered outside the confines of a specific service should remain non-denominational (and in my experience do), the fact that one man chose to pray in Christ's name is hardly a reason for all the hell that broke loose.</p>
<p>Oh, and I don't care what brand of Christianity he or anyone else belongs to. I'm as non-denominational as they come. I'm a Christian. Period.</p>
<p>As for the days of drawing fish in the dirt being long gone, I dare you to wear a shirt with that fish to a public school. Go on..... see how "gone" those days are.</p>
<p>"So the only solution you propose is to silence people, eh? Nice."</p>
<p>No it's one of several. It's just the easiest and pretty much can accomdate any one. Works in libararies. :)</p>
<p>""Only in my head", heh? Obviously you haven't been paying attention to what has been said of the "dominant" religion these past few decades. Wear a shirt that says, "I love Jesus" and you're called a fanatic and a bigot. Wear one that says, "Jesus sucks" and your rights to "free speech" will be defended all the way to the Supreme Court."</p>
<p>Really:) it's that bad is it? </p>
<p>"Chaplains lead prayers out loud. Deal with it. While those offered outside the confines of a specific service should remain non-denominational (and in my experience do), the fact that one man chose to pray in Christ's name is hardly a reason for all the hell that broke loose."</p>
<p>Well was it the right place at the right time? And what was the reason he did so? a mistake? a slip? or an intentional delibrate effort? </p>
<p>"Oh, and I don't care what brand of Christianity he or anyone else belongs to. I'm as non-denominational as they come. I'm a Christian. Period."</p>
<p>And not the least bit judgemental, if you ask me. :)</p>
<p>"As for the days of drawing fish in the dirt being long gone, I dare you to wear a shirt with that fish to a public school. Go on..... see how "gone" those days are."</p>
<p>Where do you live that it's this repressed? :) I see kids in all sorts of stuff relating to jesus, god and even marylin manson, as long as it's tasteful. The fish is on bumper stickers, business ads and even bills. This repression doesn't seem to be occurring up in Washington State. </p>
<p>Maybe it's different in your neighborhood, it could be that way where you are. But's that also why I choose not to live in the South, there's other things to worry about.</p>
<p>Well, I grew up in the south and was very well educated by my parents in how not to be bigotted, racist, and rude.</p>
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This repression doesn't seem to be occurring up in Washington State.
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<p>Normally it's California and New York. Every now and then the insanity pops up in random places.</p>
<p>Careful. The San Andreas is dragging Los Angeles up toward you guys! ;)</p>
<p>"Careful. The San Andreas is dragging Los Angeles up toward you guys! "</p>
<p>We'll just move Canada's border down to Portland. </p>
<p>Just a point on the t-shirt thing, alot of kids wear the religous tees, but they aren't overtly direct about a subject. Alot of weight lifting type images with sayings along the lines of "fire tested, saved by grace" stuff. More inspirational themes. Almost a heavy metal look but with biblical references. So it's there, it just isn't overt. Likewise the other way. Kids do get introuble for the other stuff too. </p>
<p>I guess it depends on where you live. For the most part everybody tries to get along up here. I realize some of my back and forths with some here is because we've only seen our neighborhoods. I have no idea what living in NC or jersey is like. But then again, you all might understand me a bit better if you lived in my town.</p>
<p>This isn't a question of environment, the country is pretty well represented at the academy (it has to be). If the chaplain is leading prayer, he is praying as well. It is his right to pray to his own god. If a Muslim, a Hindu, etc feels threatened by the word "God", he can substitute it for whatever he wants. If someone decides that they want to bring the ACLU into the academy, they shouldn't be there to begin with. I've seen about enough of this already, example: the Christmas Tree in town was renamed the holiday tree to appease the PC hounds. The chaplain wasn't trying to convert the non-Christians, he was just praying.</p>
<p>I teach in a public school in Southern California, and many of my students wear rosaries, bracelets with pictures of the Virgin of Guadalupe, and t-shirts with Biblical themes. Also, comparative religion is an important part of the California history standards.</p>
<p>I thought the Anti-Defamation League was challenging noon prayer at USNA, not the ACLU...</p>