<p>Mj, correct me if I’m wrong, but yu said tht I was whining, so take yur own advice</p>
<p>I feel that no one would care about AA at MSU but since it’s UMich, it’s a very good school, it’s only right to keep out all of the black and hispanic kids so that they will never catch up and eventually match the elites. Believe it or not, a lot of people are angry that urms are going to top schools. I can tell it’s scaring some people on this board. Because let’s be honest Obama would have never been President if he didn’t go to Harvard Law or any other top law school. I remember some people who claimed Obama only won due to AA and McCain was the “smarter” and more experienced candidate. I even heard some people who said they would vote for Palin over Obama. When you have some people who would vote for a dumb Sarah Palin who couldn’t even do average on her SATs over a ivy-league educated mixed guy with black ancestry, then you know this country is still racist. AA or not some people will still look at blacks and hispanics as inferior. </p>
<p>People should honestly stop crying about AA. If you are a strong applicant and confident in your skills then you should have no problem getting into the school of your choice. If you come up short, then you should have worked harder in school or became more active in your community instead of blaming the black or hispanic kid who will probably be the first college grad out of their family. </p>
<p>Personally, I think AA is probably the best form of reparations for blacks in this country. After all, the United States helped get the Jews Israel, the Native Americans own casinos and the Japanese Americans got their reparations. I feel that it’s only fair that blacks get something in return and it’s not like the government is handing it out to blacks. Black students at these top school still had to work hard in school, join clubs, and score high on the standardized test to be looked at.</p>
<p>After all, UMich has plenty of white and asian students. I don’t even think black and hispanics even up to 15% of the schools population.</p>
<p>And I’m sorry, but I am a girl. Not a mister. And how dare you compare my statement to that of a slave owner. That I highly offensive.</p>
<p>Well said zo1987. The black, Hispanic and native American population at Michigan is slightly over 10%. </p>
<p>Sent from my iPhone using CC</p>
<p>Andre - I’ll not bother responding to your entire post. </p>
<p>Your misunderstanding of quite a few of them throws doubt about you being a History and Political science major though… You may want to choose another path…</p>
<p>I’ll only address one of your misinformed points. Your assertion that the police were not a strong arm of the KKK AND were not seen that way by most of the population shows your thorough lack of knowledge as it relates to American and black history…</p>
<p>Note that I didn’t say ALL police…</p>
<p>It’s a well known fact that police in Southern states were involved with the KKK and complicit with their activities. It’s also a well known fact that this is the #1 reason African Americans fear police. Aside from the mysterious shootings, beating and whatnot… </p>
<p>Here’s just one sample… </p>
<p>[Mississippi</a> civil rights workers murders - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mississippi_civil_rights_workers_murders]Mississippi”>Murders of Chaney, Goodman, and Schwerner - Wikipedia)</p>
<p>Anyone that claims that the police were NOT the strong arm of the Klan and severe violators of civil rights from the South to LA/Oakland needs to read a book or two…</p>
<p>In fact, the original Black Panther party was created in response to severe instances of police brutality… In California… Not even the south.</p>
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<p>As is the case in most debates, the same argument can be used by both sides to support their point. Something to think about.</p>
<p>I had the honor and privilege several years ago to spend a few hours talking with some of the original Tuskeegee Airmen. They were asked about the practice of military promotions boards giving preferential consideration for promotion to minority and female officers to make up for past inequities. They were COMPLETELY disgusted and incensed that it was occurring, as they considered this the same type of discrimination they had fought so hard against. They vehemently believed that they should only be evaluated based on their abilities and their accomplishments…not on the color of their skin. They didn’t want to be thought of as “the black pilots”…only as pilots. I’d be curious to know what their opinion is on this topic…but I think I already know.</p>
<p>zo, what hell are you talking about? Your argument is all over the place. Now we’re against AA at umich only because it’s a good school and we’re actually afraid of blacks… what? And we wouldn’t care if it was at MSU. Huh?</p>
<p>Are you reading anything we wrote? Idc who gets into Michigan as long it’s the most qualified group. 1% black or 99% black, I don’t care. I just don’t want race to be considered AT ALL in the app process.</p>
<p>Yes their step stupid, old, racist, white, glenn beck watching people that would vote for Paling over Obama. But these people don’t mean anything. They are a dying generation. Plus, that’s more the problem of political parties which we shouldn’t get into here.</p>
<p>Jojo, your reason for defending something can’t be merely that it helps you, that was the point of him changing the words to that of a slave owner. See how both sound bad?</p>
<p>Reparations? I thought we were done living in the past?</p>
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<p>HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.</p>
<p>Holy *****, I didn’t want to comment on this thread, but that?! That deserves a wag of my finger. Utter fail.</p>
<p>How would you feel about this? Let’s say everyone from my graduating class (about 480) applied to my college and I can only admit 50 students. As a stated earlier, about 150 of the students were honors, and I only know one that was black. If you are wondering how I know this, my school has an honors night and there is a booklet that states who graduated with Cum Laude (3.5-3.74), Magna (3.75-3.94), and Summa (3.95+). My school had 60+ Summa Cum Laudes, and only several of them had below a 4.00. The one black student that I know of with honors was a Cum Laude.
So, let’s say I use race as a factor. Heck, I could use race as a 0.40 GPA boost (only for blacks) and even the black honor student would still have a lower GPA than a lot of the Summas. After going through the admission process, I end up selecting 50 of the Summa Cum Laudes. I did not admit a black student, but I did take race into account. How would you feel about that?
Also, in my honors/AP classes, I don’t recall seeing many (if any) black students. There were black students in one of my non honors classes. This class was a piece of cake. However, there were still students (whites and blacks) who struggled. I never saw them ask the teacher for help. Instead, they goofed around and came to class unprepared.
At my high school, blacks have the opportunity to succeed. They can check out SAT/ACT test prep books from the Library. They can ask the teacher for help. They can go to the Counseling office. They can pay attention in class. They are allowed to study for tests. Whether or not they choose to is there fault, not mine or anyone else’s.
Also, at my Campus day in Michigan, I met a very intelligent black student. He got mostly A’s, took AP classes, etc. He went to a school that sound similar to mine. If he can do it in his environment, then others should be able to as well.</p>
<p>"Your misunderstanding of quite a few of them throws doubt about you being a History and Political science major though… You may want to choose another path…</p>
<p>I’ll only address one of your misinformed points. Your assertion that the police were not a strong arm of the KKK AND were not seen that way by most of the population shows your thorough lack of knowledge as it relates to American and black history…"</p>
<p>rather than pointing out how I was wrong, you respond with another ad hominem. please point out where I was wrong. Your ignorance and personal attacks are beginning to disgust me, and quite frankly, you are beginning to sound as racist as those you are afraid of. </p>
<p>Then again, this isn’t surprising, since we already got your wonderful “minorities will always outperform white people if given the opportunity, even if they have lower test scores and GPAs” comment.</p>
<p>“Note that I didn’t say ALL police…”</p>
<p>“Anyone that claims that the police were NOT the strong arm of the Klan and severe violators of civil rights from the South to LA/Oakland needs to read a book or two…”</p>
<p>again, we get a generalization of ALL the police. no one will argue that the police were complicit in many racist incidents, but to instantly equate that with cross burnings and lynchings is a dramatic leap in logic that shows the narrowmindedness of your argument. You try to justify it with a few anecdotes (which is another argumentitive flaw, btw, we are at at least four for you now), which don’t show much other than that SOME police in SOME areas did racist things, which does not equal being part of the klu klux klan</p>
<p>you used no qualifiers in your statement, which means it is read as saying all police. even in your post that tries to justify it, you still try to paint the picture as most of the police being racist, cross burning terrorists, which, by the way, is a naive, black and white view of history. No sir, I know MY history. Perhaps you should broaden your worldview and do the same.</p>
<p>"And I’m sorry, but I am a girl. Not a mister. And how dare you compare my statement to that of a slave owner. That I highly offensive. "</p>
<p>I apologize, as I did not know you were a girl. However, my comment was not offensive, since I literally just changed the word “AA” to “slavery” to show how transmutable and foolish your logic was.</p>
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<p>You’ve been using personal attacks since you’ve arrived. Obviously, you are getting something out of them. </p>
<p>I will no longer respond to you because when you argue with a fool no one can tell the difference…</p>
<p>Have a good day sir.</p>
<p>How about you respond to my previous post. I have not used any personal attacks.</p>
<p>@ 777Blue77: How competitive is your school?</p>
<p>Also, I commend you if you haven’t just thrown personal attacks at people. I haven’t gone through and read all your posts, so I can’t say for sure.</p>
<p>Yes Duck, I was able to infer that. But do you think that ANYONE would want to be compared to a slave owner? Didn’t think so. </p>
<p>Blue, just because one of your classmates was able to excel in “his environment” doesn’t mean that others cAn excel in their environments. Things are different for everybody. Just because one was able to achieve despite his upbringing, doesn’t mean that everyone can and that everyone else will. </p>
<p>Here’s my argument with all its flaws and possible contradictions:</p>
<p>AA is only one chocolate chip in the whole cookie. Other things are considered, other things are factored in.
The SAT and gpa are also only chocolate chips on the cookie. The SAT has been deemed as biased and there could be various reasons why someone’s
Gpa is not up to par with that of their peers. So basically, gpa and sat aren’t the only things we should go off of. </p>
<p>Race IS important. No matter if you are asian or hispanic. Race helps to determine who you are and to leave it out of a college application would be a disgrace. So I don’t think that is the solution. </p>
<p>Again I will emphasize the valuable diversity that AA fosters. An interaction between a white and an urm could be priceless because each side earn a more open minded perspective on life. </p>
<p>AA should be amended to focus more on economics and possibly sexual orientation. BUT again, race should never be ignored in the application process. </p>
<p>Just because you are an URM DOES NOT mean that you will automatically get into a prestigious college. One of my cousins was a legacy URM and no, he didn’t get into stanford. Also, just because an URM DOES get into a college does not mean that they are there only because of their skin color. </p>
<p>No should feel ashamed of stating that they are an URM or feel that they are unworthy of a good college. </p>
<p>I would love to meet an URM who is against AA and a white who supports it. BUT until I do, I am inclined to believe that URMs support it because it helps them and that whites/ asians do not because it doesn’t. Both sides have good reasons, but underneath it all their position is at least partly fueled by their race.</p>
<p>But this is all just how I personally feel. Tear apart my opinions if you’d like, just know that they are opinions</p>
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<p>I believe we’ve already dismissed the “one minority made it so they all should…” argument.</p>
<p>By your logic, since this country has an illustrious history of being led by the majority and since the majority of rich and successful people in this country are also members of the majority there is therefore no excuse, BY YOUR LOGIC, that there are any members of the majority suffering. They should all have made it… </p>
<p>But your logic fails when applied to the majority so how can you expect it to apply to the minority?</p>
<p>I’m not answering your strawman hypothetical question because it’s nonsense. Even IF 150 black students in your school weren’t in honors classes you have no actual knowledge as to why they are not. NONE. You might have a few friends but that’s not all of them.</p>
<p>They ALL goof off? They ALL can pay attention??? You know what’s going on in their lives how exactly???</p>
<p>Premise 1 + Premise 2 + etc… = Argument… As soon as any single premise is false your argument is false… Your initial premise that you know exactly how ALL the black students behave and WHY they behave that way is flawed. Any argument based off of that flawed premise is likewise flawed…</p>
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<p>You know… I’ve never actually met a URM that is against AA. Oh, I hear all sorts of non-URMs say THEY know some but I’ve never met one. An I’m surrounding by them all the time. </p>
<p>Hmmm…</p>
<p>@zo
Hi, have you ever considered that some highly educated, non-racist people don’t like Obama? Just because someone doesn’t like him doesn’t mean they are racist. He has done things that many people in this country don’t like(i.e. government takeover of healthcare, auto industry, banking industry) so it is perfectly logical that people that don’t like those things won’t like him as president. also, does the fact that you don’t like mccain or palin make you racist against white people? i didn’t think so, but then again, white people never face racism.</p>
<p>^^^would you take a tax break even though not all Americans could take that exact same tax break? Heck yea you would because it would benefit yourself. Most URMs are for AA for the very simple reason that it gives them preferential treatment in hirings, college admissions, promotions…They get enormous benefits without having to do anything, so why would anyone be against it? Just those few URMs who see it for what it is: discrimination.</p>
<p>also, i think blue’s point is that why is it that when given the exact same “advantages” as everyone else, black students still underperform their white and asian counterparts.</p>
<p>I’m not answering your strawman hypothetical question because it’s nonsense. Even IF 150 black students in your school weren’t in honors classes you have no actual knowledge as to why they are not. NONE. You might have a few friends but that’s not all of them.</p>
<p>How’s it nonsense? I based my question on actual data. Why they are not in honor classes does not matter. For whatever reason they are not in them and that is what counts. How many of them do you think should be admitted to an elite school?</p>
<p>^^ If they don’t value take advantage of their education like you say, how many of them will be applying to elite schools, let alone getting admitted?</p>
<p>It was a good idea to use actual numbers instead of just coming up with random statistics stacked in your favor though.</p>
<p>I agree that not just anyone should get admitted into a school on the basis of race, or any one factor for that matter. AA isn’t saying that one guy should get in, AA is saying to take one more thing into account.</p>