<p>“The SAT is known to be biased against blacks. Why shouldn’t they receive a bump???”</p>
<p>Don’t most people who take the SAT sign up for it online on a website called collegeboard.org? Doesn’t this website also have instructions, sample questions, full out practice tests, tips, the option to send you daily test questions to your email and much more? Yes it does. How much does this cost? It’s all FREE. Furthermore, there are plenty of other FREE test preparation websites. If you have access to the internet, then you have access to the SAT help.</p>
<p>In addition to the internet, companies like the Princeton Review and Baron’s release books that cover the topics in the SAT. In fact, collegeboard even has a huge book that contains several old actual SAT tests. You can check these out at the library for FREE.</p>
<p>If the above options aren’t for you, then maybe try asking your teachers for help. Maybe try asking your friends. If you WANT help, you can find it.</p>
<p>So if we are going to complain about cultural bias, how about we have the SAT written by only black people. As long as the Princeton Review writes a book on how to crack it ( in addition to the above mentioned resources), then I’m sure non-blacks would be fine.</p>
<p>Not every person has computer access, decent libraries, or the funds for review books like Barron’s/PR to practice for such tests. Not every teacher is able to prepare them well for standardized tests. </p>
<p>AA seeks to help out poorer URMs, the ones that don’t have total access to such things. I’m sure colleges have caught on to the fact that wealthy minorities have the much better opportunities, in which case they wouldn’t get as much attention as the ones AA actually seeks to assist. I don’t know if this is the case, but it would be much smarter that way. But again, this leads more to what I think is right, that we should go more socio-economic. But again, you bring up good points.</p>
<p>@Blackwolf. I understand that everyone does not have the same wealth to such accesses. Now I would probably have a better understanding in their position.</p>
<p>In my school through, as I have already mentioned, the black students had just as much opportunity to study, ask the teacher for help, take AP classes, check out book from the library, etc. Whether or not they chose to do so, is their fault, not some test. Claiming that the SAT is unfair on the basis of culture is BS.</p>
<p>@jojouhgogo why do you continually use some correlation between wealth and white people to justify why minorities do worse? you can’t blame underperforming on those that did better, only yourself. using an expensive tutor will probably help you, but it won’t make up a difference between an 1800 and a 2400. also, why should people be punished because they have money? since when is making money “evil”?</p>
<p>@blackwolf do you actually know someone who can’t get access to internet at school, their house, friend’s house, library etc. also a barons book is like $14 which i believe everyone could afford even if they had to save up for a bit.</p>
<p>There have been some studies that show that it is biased and some reasons why this might be so. But if a test has been proven to be biased, why don’t we change it? If you want to change AA because its biased, then change the SAT</p>
<p>@jojouhgogo every single standardized test can be “biased” because not all groups preform on the same level. apparently the ACT is “biased” because men are more confident at guessing then women. does that sound like actual bias to you?</p>
<p>^^^ I agree with this. Standardized tests to me aren’t as much a measure of intelligence as they are “how many of this traps have you seen before and are able to pick out?” </p>
<p>The students you mention at your school aren’t indicative of the type of URMs AA is trying to help though. If every URM had that kind of help, then AA wouldn’t be necessary. URMs fall under the category I mentioned more so than any other race, as shown by things like dropout rates by race. ([Fast</a> Facts](<a href=“http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=16]Fast”>Fast Facts: Dropout rates (16))) Failing, crumbling schools where just graduating at all is a big deal would show a better example of who AA tries to help. Having attended such schools as well as a pretty average high school, I can say that there are huge differences. There’s a difference between a person with decent who can work hard, but doesn’t have the tools, and a person with decent stats who has the tools, but doesn’t have the drive to work. AA seeks to help the former, but again, this is more on SE status.</p>
<p>I don’t think standardized test bias is an acceptable excuse. I haven’t taken the SAT, so I can’t speak for it. </p>
<p>I’m surprised an AA thread has gotten this civilized.</p>
<p>But that. Doesn’t change how biased it is. If a people are already placed at a disadvantage, hoe are tey suppossed to get the same scores as their asian and white counterparts. For some (no matter the race) studying for school is difficult because of their situation. Now add sat prep on top of that</p>
<p>A straw man is a component of an argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent’s position.To “attack a straw man” is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by replacing it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the “straw man”), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.</p>
<p>The straw man fallacy occurs in the following pattern of argument:</p>
<p>1) Person A has position X.
2) Person B disregards certain key points of X and instead presents the superficially similar position Y. Thus, Y is a resulting distorted version of X and can be set up in several ways, including:
[ul]Presenting a misrepresentation of the opponent’s position.[/ul]
[ul]Quoting an opponent’s words out of context i.e. choosing quotations that misrepresent the opponent’s actual intentions (see fallacy of quoting out of context).[/ul]
[ul]Presenting someone who defends a position poorly as the defender, then refuting that person’s arguments thus giving the appearance that every upholder of that position (and thus the position itself) has been defeated.[/ul]
[ul]Inventing a fictitious persona with actions or beliefs which are then criticized, implying that the person represents a group of whom the speaker is critical.[/ul]
[ul]Oversimplifying an opponent’s argument, then attacking this oversimplified version.[/ul]
3)Person B attacks position Y, concluding that X is false/incorrect/flawed.</p>
<p>This sort of “reasoning” is fallacious, because attacking a distorted version of a position fails to constitute an attack on the actual position.</p>
<p>Your example was a strawman…</p>
<p>My only argument is that race should be maintained as one of the components of AA. That good URM students (judged by whatever standards) should be given a boost (the level of boost is irrelevant as I have not mentioned it). </p>
<p>You then create a hypothetical situation in which a supposed number of URMS all behave and in the same supposed manner. Then you expect me to defend your slanted hypothetical after which you will attack my argument which would be flawed based on the flawed hypothetical…</p>
<p>My original argument was…</p>
<p>1) AA should stay.
2) Socioeconomic status can and probably should be a part of AA.
3) Race should stay as AA.
4) No one has any actual evidence of highly unqualified URMs bumping highly qualified nonURMS.</p>
<p>^^my school had to shut off its lights because they couldn’t pay their electric bill. does this 95% white school qualify as one that is “crumbling”. also, it has a 33% dropout rate. it seems like we should be getting a bump but we don’t because all white people are privileged and none of them have hardships right</p>
<p>“@blackwolf do you actually know someone who can’t get access to internet at school, their house, friend’s house, library etc. also a barons book is like $14 which i believe everyone could afford even if they had to save up for a bit.”
-mjmay7</p>
<p>Living in the poorer areas of Detroit, I honestly say I do know of quite a few people who didn’t have access to such things, myself included. I didn’t have any kind of internet access until after I moved. 14 dollars is quite a bit when you live paycheck to paycheck. It’s not quite as easy to save up, and when you do, you’ll probably invest it in something other than a prep book for a single test. Cost of living, paired with household income for a lot of families leaves them very tight financially.</p>
<p>“But that. Doesn’t change how biased it is. If a people are already placed at a disadvantage, hoe are tey suppossed to get the same scores as their asian and white counterparts. For some (no matter the race) studying for school is difficult because of their situation. Now add sat prep on top of that”
-jojouhgogo</p>
<p>By practicing. the AP English test I took last May had an article on a Concept of Hip-Hop. I actually knew almost everything they were referring to, but I still had to read through it to be able to answer the types of questions. Is it fair to my classmates who might not have been familiar with it? It’s impossible to make a completely unbiased reading/writing aspect of a test. There’s going to be subjectivity in how people grade them, which is why they try to incorporate several different readings to introduce a broad range of topics. If you know it’s gonna have bias, that’s all the more reason to be ready for it. </p>
<p>Again, I don’t believe everyone wants AA as a freebie. There are people out there it could truly benefit. It still won’t guarantee them admission though; the person still has to work their way in like everyone else. That said, using your race as a way to get in isn’t fair to anyone.(I’m not referring to discrimination that might come with race, I mean just race alone.)</p>
<p>AA is a helping tool for the disadvantaged, not a freebie admissions ticket for minorities.</p>
<p>Thank you for explaining what a “strawman” is. However </p>
<p>“You then create a hypothetical situation in which a supposed number of URMS all behave and in the same supposed manner. Then you expect me to defend your slanted hypothetical after which you will attack my argument which would be flawed based on the flawed hypothetical…”</p>
<p>This was the case at my school. I did not make up the numbers. It is true that only 1 or a few of them gratudated with honors. I’m not saying they all behaved the same way.</p>
<p>False. We have historical data that proves that when a people are dominated by another and have their culture/religion/identity squashed they always end up underperforming. The Native Americans, African Americans, EVERY country that was colonized by the British, Dutch, Spanish and Portuguese… </p>
<p>I’ll concede that this isn’t an excuse forever, and yes the numbers of successful minorities rises each year but if you want to argue that everything is equitable now then you are highly mistaken.</p>
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<p>I DO… I know kids that get breakfast and lunch at school and no food. They have nasty clothes. Rats in their house. People selling drugs outside of their house. Shootings outside of their house. Social services can’t do anything about it. Look op social services in DC and see how effective they are.</p>
<p>There are streets in DC that look like Haiti post earthquake. Baltimore is worse…</p>
<p>Where do you live? You need to get out in the world and look around…</p>
<p>Who said socioeconomic status SHOULDN’T get AA status… Though I believe YOUR argument was that if ONE poor white person can make it they all should…</p>
<p>“By practicing. the AP English test I took last May had an article on a Concept of Hip-Hop. I actually knew everything they were referring to. I still had to read through it to be able to answer the types of questions. Is it fair to my classmates who might not have been familiar with it? It’s impossible to make a completely unbiased reading/writing aspect of a test. There’s going to be subjectivity in how people grade them, which is why they try to incorporate several different readings to introduce a broad range of topics.”</p>