We personally know two people who had strokes from J&J. Pretty scary as that was the one we had considered getting. H has family history of that type of stroke so that’s out at this point.
Our state sent out a notice to all who signed up for updates telling people with various symptoms post J&J to immediately contact their doctor’s office. I don’t think they only meant symptoms now. My guess is they’re actively looking to see if more than 6 might have been affected. I hope those you know are contacting their dr offices so more can be looked into to see if it is, indeed, due to the vaccine or not.
On the other Covid thread (inside medicine), some links have been posted relating more about what is known at this point.
There is nothing wrong about trying to make something helpful even more helpful, or at least figuring out who shouldn’t get it if it’s harmful. There are only 6 now. If it stays at 6, such is life, but we shouldn’t have to get “high” (define it yourself) to take a second look.
Putting the vax in perspective with Covid, med school lad knows several who have had strokes post Covid and a stroke is what my uncle died from - also likely post Covid even though my aunt will still say it was “just a cold.”
As speculated on the Inside Medicine thread, if people are reacting to the vaccine without active Covid in it, chances are they also would have reacted badly to Covid itself. If a common denominator can be found, those folks most likely to have bad results can be sure to get one of the others out there rather than be written off as statistics.
@taverngirl I’m wondering about your statement that you know 2 people who had strokes after the J&J vaccine. Since the reports are 6 people out of 7 million, I’m wondering if the people you personally know are part of those 6?
I’m wondering if the reports that are coming out are under reported? Because they aren’t sure if the clotting is because of the vaccine?
As it was reported yesterday, they are saying the reports are a complication of 1 in a million. When taking birth control the risk of clotting is 1/1000. If they are underreporting the risk, it’s much more concerning.
I am not questioning what you said, absolutely not. Just trying to make sense of what is being reported in the media
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Really? Because only 7 total were reported out of millions. Were these reported? These type of stories scare people away from getting the shot.
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I’m wondering if this is really it too - 6 known, several others they’re checking in to - and that’s why it’s on pause. If they, indeed, knew it was just 6 a pause seems unlikely. If they knew it were far more than 6 it would be pulled.
It really only makes sense if they are double checking, and if that’s the case, yes, please pause and check. If they didn’t and were wrong people would probably never trust another vaccine again - which honestly would make sense.
There are other options right now. There’s no reason to go full steam ahead during a, “wait a minute” moment.
What if it turns out to be far more and someone you loved were one of those affected? I’d rather err on safe - esp when there are other options that appear to safer. I trust those in charge and looking at the data. At some point one needs to trust someone and those are who I choose.
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Well, everything is risk reward. The J&J is the safest option for many. And some prefer it for others reasons. I personally wouldn’t worry about a 7 in 7 million event. But I like to live on the edge. It’s sad, but could be any number of things including that was going to happen with/without the vaccine.
Good that you trust those in charge, I’m a consumer who questions things. So seems like your decision and that of many others is going to be very different.
The number of folks vaccinated so far is no way close to 100%, that should signal to you that many aren’t thinking the same thoughts re: the vaccine. Very few seem to be going in lock step with the plans as they have been laid out. I’ve heard of folks who are waiting, some who want a particular vaccine and some with no plans to get it ever.
Military has about 40% use rate. I don’t know how many have been offered it to date but that seems to be tracking closely to what some have said on this thread about 40% in their states. IMO, That’s REALLY low. Much lower than I would have expected.
From what I have read, you need about 70% to get herd immunity.
Nate Silver has interesting take on this - basically the statistics do not support stoping the use of J&J.
Science anyone?
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Not science, but here’s what google turns up on https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/14/blood-clots-ema-says-benefits-of-jj-covid-vaccine-outweigh-risks.html
KEY POINTS
Europe’s medicines regulator on Wednesday said it still believes the benefits of Johnson & Johnson’s Covid-19 vaccine outweigh the risks of side effects.
It comes shortly after the U.S. FDA asked states to temporarily pause using J&J’s vaccine “out of an abundance of caution” after six cases of a blood clotting disorder were detected among more than 6.8 million doses of the shot.
The European Medicines Agency said it is currently investigating all the reported cases and will decide whether regulatory action is required.
You always have to ask yourself what are the implication to me/my family. I find it odd when others pre-suppose they know what is best for me or my family. But then again, I’m unusual in that respect. Bit of a libertarian. I really don’t care which vaccine someone else gets or if they even get it at all. Seems like a large % of population is lagging on making a choice at the moment.
“Seems like a large % of population is lagging on making a choice at the moment.”
As most states still have long lines for vax sign-up, methinks its too early to make such a conclusion. After another month or so, if vaccines go wanting, then you might be onto something.
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Vaccine is still supply-constrained in many areas, especially those areas where people want the vaccine.
The page on the topic on the fivethirtyeight.com web site is this: The Johnson & Johnson Pause Shows The System Is Working | FiveThirtyEight
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Silver’s take remains…
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That’s due to supply, reluctance, and the fact that the vaccines are still EUA. According to DoDMERB, once they are no longer EUA, they will be required (like the umpteen other vaccines the Army has injected into our son’s various body parts). Among the officer cohort, there is very little reluctance. Our son does not know any officers who either haven’t been vaccinated or who don’t have plans to be. It’s part of modeling leadership.
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Yes, I hope so. Honestly, thought people would be lined up to take it everywhere.
I agree with Silver’s take on the stats and actual risk level comparison as mentioned in the linked Newsweek page.
However, people (not just regulators, but the general public more so) tend to behave irrationally and ignore the stats in favor of anecdotes (however uncommon or unrepresentative). With trust levels in government, business, and other institutions very low these days, regulators need to consider that a reaction of increased popular anti-vaccine sentiment if they did not take any action may do far more damage (in terms of reducing vaccine use) than a delay in vaccine administration.
Note also that anecdotes of “bad reaction from vaccine” are more noticeable than the far more common “got vaccine, did not get COVID-19 despite exposure” situations that may not have even been noticed (because exposures often involve virus spreaders who are not yet showing any symptoms). So the general public is likely to exaggerate the risks of the vaccine while underestimating the benefits.
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What many aren’t considering is that not many people care about what Nate Silver or anyone else (specifically) thinks. They are going to weigh all of the factors important to them and make a decision which way to go.
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I agree with Silver that halting the vaccine actually does more to undermine confidence in the vaccine. Much like how AstraZeneca will most likely never be used in the US, J&J may now be in the same boat.
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Thanks for sharing this!
We keep hearing that physicians overwhelmingly chose to be vaccinated. Other hospital personnel have had lower rates of vaccination.
I’m all for modeling leadership!
I’m a big Nate Silver and the 538 fan girl!
The news of the incidents itself is what has the most effect of undermining confidence in the vaccine. Much like how people are more afraid of plane crashes than car crashes and will drive instead of fly despite driving being riskier (per passenger mile), many people fear the one in a million risk of the vaccine more than the one in orders of magnitude less than a million risk of actual COVID-19.
The FDA’s choices are unlikely to change much:
- Pause → some people will think that the vaccine is unsafe.
- Don’t pause → some people will think that the vaccine is unsafe and that the government is doing a cover-up.
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