<p>Hello everyone, I'm an in-state californian female with good stats (4.3w, 2250 SAT) and ECs (see this post if you want detail <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/what-my-chances/1508050-chances-science-undergrad-new-post.html%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/what-my-chances/1508050-chances-science-undergrad-new-post.html</a>). However, UC Berkley is not currently on my list. I'm very certain about being a Neuroscience (or equivalent, different schools label it differently) BS bio major because it is my passion. I've heard some horror stories about berkley (400+ sized classes taught by TAs, kids so stresed about grades they have mental breakdowns, ultra competition with little social interaction, ect.). I am a science major, but not in physics and I'm not an engineer. I also enjoy writing, philosophy, and theater classes in addition to my science, I see myself as a more balanced person. Am in crazy to put UCSD higher on my list than UCB (which currently isnt even making the cut)? Any help from current students or others is greatly appreciated</p>
<p>What makes you think that classes at UCSD will be smaller, or that premed majors are any less cutthroat or stressed at UCSD? I am fairly certain that UCSD has, on average, classes that are just as large, if not larger, and premed majors are always going to be stressful. If you really want a smaller, less cutthroat environment, check out liberal arts colleges like Occidental, Pomona etc… Major research universities like Cal, Stanford, UCSD etc…will likely have large classes, lots of TAs and a cutthroat premed culture.</p>
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<p>The same would be true at SD (and UCLA, for that matter). </p>
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<p>Well since Cal has highly-ranked lit and hume disciplines, as well as science, I would submit that you would be foolish to not consider Berkeley. But if you prefer the social life, or lack thereof, at SD, choose it instead. Both are excellent.</p>
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<p>Student-faculty ratio:
UC Berkeley 17:1
UCSD 19:1</p>
<p>Percentage of classes with 50 or more students:
UC Berkeley 14.5%
UCSD 34.9%</p>
<p>Percentage of classes with 100 or more students:
UC Berkeley 7.1%
UCSD 22.8%</p>
<p>Percentage of classes with <20 students:
UC Berkeley 63.4%
UCSD 37.3%</p>
<p>(Figures from each school’s most recent Common Data Set).</p>
<p>There might be good reasons to choose UCSD over UC Berkeley. Smaller class sizes is definitely not one of them.</p>
<p>If biology is your major, I would definitely say that UCSD looks to be more preferable than Berkeley. Many of my friends (also in-state Californians) were accepted to both SD and Cal and some picked SD (most were bio majors) while others picked Cal. Like the other posters have said, there will not be much of a difference in the level of “cutthroat-ness” at one school over the other. Especially in the Bio department, for which UCSD is known, the competition is incredibly fierce. </p>
<p>I, too, am a Biological sciences major and had to choose between UCSD and UCLA. I knew SD was renown for its bio, supplemented by many research opportunities at the multitude of companies nearby, but, to me, they both had excellent science programs so the academic difference was minuscule. At the end of it all, it came down to fit and where I felt most comfortable and able to succeed, which was UCLA for me. </p>
<p>At any of the UCs, you’re bound to find competitive, cutthroat peers and large classroom settings. However, each UC also has general education requirements in which you take classes outside of your major such as theater, writing, and philosophy. Don’t worry, you will be plenty well-balanced.</p>
<p>I would also second the suggestion to take a closer look at liberal arts colleges. Some may be less well-known than the large, big name universities, but the education there offers smaller class sizes, which allow you to get to know classmates and teachers on a deeper level, and will definitely get a well rounded array of coursework. I think most LACs focus only on undergrads because they do not have graduate schools so that is also a bonus seeing as how professors can devote all their time and attention to undergrads.</p>
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Yes, you are. You have a lot of false pretenses about Berkeley that are not exactly true.<br>
Berkeley offers way more in a college experience than UCSD. Also, Berkeley’s academic reputation in biology easily exceeds UCSD…</p>
<p>I don’t think its crazy to decide you prefer SD over Cal, but you ought to prefer the real version of it over some caricature of each school. Visit both schools and then decide. Talk to some current students, try to picture yourself living there. </p>
<p>You have some misconceptions about the schools. UCs are going to be similar; it isn’t as if they have large classes at Cal but don’t elsewhere. Whoever told you about 400+ classes taught by TAs is off-base. They don’t do that. Probably this HS kid (I’m guessing) is conflating the discussion section with the lecture. Yes, they do have 400+ classes at UCs. At all of them. You go to lecture 3x a week and have a professor teaching it. Then once a week you go to a discussion section led by a TA. This is about 20-25 students. </p>
<p>I’d say at Cal you have more of a college feel, living on/near campus in a somewhat gritty (in places) town. SD is more a commuter school. Kids like to live on the beach such as Pacific or Mission beach and then commute into campus.</p>
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That is what is says in the Cal Common Data Set, but I wonder if did it wrong. I’m guessing even though the instructions for the CDS say to count discussions separately, and even though Cal writes in the CDS they didn’t count them at all, that actually they rolled them into the CDS. Just for fun I went to the current schedule of classes for Econ at [UCB</a> Online Schedule of Classes: Search Results](<a href=“http://osoc.berkeley.edu/OSOC/osoc?p_term=SP&x=22&p_classif=U&p_deptname=Economics&p_presuf=--+Choose+a+Course+Prefix%2FSuffix+--&y=1]UCB”>http://osoc.berkeley.edu/OSOC/osoc?p_term=SP&x=22&p_classif=U&p_deptname=Economics&p_presuf=--+Choose+a+Course+Prefix%2FSuffix+--&y=1) and there is not a single lecture with 20 or less students enrolled. And these are the upper-division classes where you ought to find the smaller classes. Plenty of discussion sections in that range, though.</p>
<p>^ Econ’s a popular major. Look at courses for Geography, Foreign Languages, Demography, etc…</p>
<p>So I looked at Geography for the current semester (Spring 2013) and found only 2 classes with 20 or less enrolled. See [UCB</a> Online Schedule of Classes: Search Results](<a href=“http://osoc.berkeley.edu/OSOC/osoc?p_term=SP&x=31&p_classif=U&p_deptname=Geography&p_presuf=--+Choose+a+Course+Prefix%2FSuffix+--&y=9]UCB”>http://osoc.berkeley.edu/OSOC/osoc?p_term=SP&x=31&p_classif=U&p_deptname=Geography&p_presuf=--+Choose+a+Course+Prefix%2FSuffix+--&y=9)</p>
<p>I wonder where the rest of the 2,457 classes with 20 are less are hiding?</p>
<p>I’m really starting to suspect more and more that they lumped in discussion sections with lectures. I just noticed that Berkeley reports a total of 3,874 classes in the CDS, while UC San Diego (which has about 24K undergrads compared to 26K at Cal) gets by with only 1,414. Either Cal offers an amazing amount of classes for its undergrads compared to its sibling campuses, or maybe they counted wrong…</p>
<p>[UCB</a> Online Schedule of Classes: Search Results](<a href=“http://osoc.berkeley.edu/OSOC/osoc?p_term=SP&x=52&p_classif=--+Choose+a+Course+Classification+--&p_deptname=Agricultural+and+Resource+Economics+and+Policy&p_presuf=--+Choose+a+Course+Prefix%2FSuffix+--&y=12]UCB”>http://osoc.berkeley.edu/OSOC/osoc?p_term=SP&x=52&p_classif=--+Choose+a+Course+Classification+--&p_deptname=Agricultural+and+Resource+Economics+and+Policy&p_presuf=--+Choose+a+Course+Prefix%2FSuffix+--&y=12)</p>
<p>[UCB</a> Online Schedule of Classes: Search Results](<a href=“http://osoc.berkeley.edu/OSOC/osoc?p_term=SP&x=45&p_classif=--+Choose+a+Course+Classification+--&p_deptname=Arabic&p_presuf=--+Choose+a+Course+Prefix%2FSuffix+--&y=9]UCB”>http://osoc.berkeley.edu/OSOC/osoc?p_term=SP&x=45&p_classif=--+Choose+a+Course+Classification+--&p_deptname=Arabic&p_presuf=--+Choose+a+Course+Prefix%2FSuffix+--&y=9)</p>
<p>[UCB</a> Online Schedule of Classes: Search Results](<a href=“http://osoc.berkeley.edu/OSOC/osoc?p_term=SP&x=27&p_classif=--+Choose+a+Course+Classification+--&p_deptname=Architecture&p_presuf=--+Choose+a+Course+Prefix%2FSuffix+--&y=8]UCB”>http://osoc.berkeley.edu/OSOC/osoc?p_term=SP&x=27&p_classif=--+Choose+a+Course+Classification+--&p_deptname=Architecture&p_presuf=--+Choose+a+Course+Prefix%2FSuffix+--&y=8)</p>
<p>[UCB</a> Online Schedule of Classes: Search Results](<a href=“http://osoc.berkeley.edu/OSOC/osoc?p_term=SP&x=57&p_classif=--+Choose+a+Course+Classification+--&p_deptname=Ancient+History+and+Mediterranean+Archaeology&p_presuf=--+Choose+a+Course+Prefix%2FSuffix+--&y=7]UCB”>http://osoc.berkeley.edu/OSOC/osoc?p_term=SP&x=57&p_classif=--+Choose+a+Course+Classification+--&p_deptname=Ancient+History+and+Mediterranean+Archaeology&p_presuf=--+Choose+a+Course+Prefix%2FSuffix+--&y=7)</p>
<p>…</p>
<p>UCSD’s schedule of classes is here for comparison:
<a href=“Student/Class Info”>Student/Class Info;
<p>All of the arguments about class sizes in economics and other subjects are less relevant to the OP, who wants to major in biology or neuroscience. Given the popularity of majoring in biology, and the popularity of pre-med, the OP should expect the lower division courses in biology, chemistry, organic chemistry, and psychology to be among the largest classes at any given school.</p>
<p>Re: small classes at Berkeley</p>
<p>Here is a small lower division class at Berkeley this fall (30 student limit, historically does not come close to filling up, comes with both a faculty member and a TA):
[UCB</a> Online Schedule of Classes: Search Results](<a href=“http://osoc.berkeley.edu/OSOC/osoc?p_term=FL&x=0&p_classif=--+Choose+a+Course+Classification+--&p_deptname=--+Choose+a+Department+Name+--&p_presuf=--+Choose+a+Course+Prefix%2FSuffix+--&y=0&p_course=h54&p_dept=math]UCB”>http://osoc.berkeley.edu/OSOC/osoc?p_term=FL&x=0&p_classif=--+Choose+a+Course+Classification+--&p_deptname=--+Choose+a+Department+Name+--&p_presuf=--+Choose+a+Course+Prefix%2FSuffix+--&y=0&p_course=h54&p_dept=math)</p>
<p>The corresponding course this past spring had 11 students:
[UCB</a> Online Schedule of Classes: Search Results](<a href=“http://osoc.berkeley.edu/OSOC/osoc?p_term=SP&x=0&p_classif=--+Choose+a+Course+Classification+--&p_deptname=--+Choose+a+Department+Name+--&p_presuf=--+Choose+a+Course+Prefix%2FSuffix+--&y=0&p_course=h53&p_dept=math]UCB”>http://osoc.berkeley.edu/OSOC/osoc?p_term=SP&x=0&p_classif=--+Choose+a+Course+Classification+--&p_deptname=--+Choose+a+Department+Name+--&p_presuf=--+Choose+a+Course+Prefix%2FSuffix+--&y=0&p_course=h53&p_dept=math)</p>
<p>This has gotten too far astream of what the OP is asking, so my last post on this topic. But…</p>
<p>You can download the entire Spring 2013 schedule of classes at <a href=“http://osoc.berkeley.edu/osoc/Spring2013ScheduleUG.pdf[/url]”>http://osoc.berkeley.edu/osoc/Spring2013ScheduleUG.pdf</a> I did, converted it to text, searched for the string LEC which indicates lecture sections. Turns out there are only 1,996 classes listed as lectures, even though the numbers in the Common Data Set indicate there should be 3,874. </p>
<p>1,996 lecture sessions on par with what UC San Diego offers, and to me is much more plausible than believing Cal offers twice as many distinct classes to about the same number of undergrads. </p>
<p>I am pretty sure at this point the reported class size in the Cal Common Data Set is wrong, and that they counted discussion sections as regular classes.</p>
<p>In the Berkeley schedule, LAB, SEM, TUT, FLD, GRP, and IND can also refer to primary sessions of a given course, although some of these are not traditional classes (SEM and perhaps GRP are probably closest to traditional classes).</p>
<p>LAB = may be a course that only has lab, although most are labs associated with a lecture that is the primary session
SEM = seminar (often numbered 24, 39, or 84)
TUT = tutorial
FLD = field study (usually numbered 97 or 197)
GRP = group study (usually numbered 98 or 198)
IND = independent study (usually numbered 99 or 199)</p>
<p>Actually, what you probably want to count is the number of P before the course number in the PDF to pick up the primary sessions.</p>
<p>Both are huge schools, the major difference is the campus feel. Berkeley is integrated into the city, you can’t tell what is campus and what is city. UCSD has a more traditional college feel. In my experience both schools are equally respected, but have very different “feels”.</p>
<p>The main part of the Berkeley campus is distinct from the city, although there is “spillover” into the city (mostly dorms and parking structures).</p>
<p>[Interactive</a> map - UC Berkeley](<a href=“http://www.berkeley.edu/map/3dmap/3dmap.shtml]Interactive”>http://www.berkeley.edu/map/3dmap/3dmap.shtml)</p>
<p>LilyEmery, have you ever been on the Cal campus? Your comment about not being able to tell what is city and what is campus is totally off base. Cal is very much delineated from the city, except for the dorms and perhaps some office buildings. The campus where classes are held is very separate (thank goodness).</p>
<p>UCSD traditional?! Have you seen Geisel library?</p>
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<p>How many colleges are plopped down in the middle of swanky, upscale suburbs? How many colleges are surrounded by multi-million dollar homes? How many students leave that so-called, “traditional college feel” and go home on weekends? How many Unis pack their individual colleges, and thus dorms, by major discipline? (Yes, somewhat of a stretch, but no other college does anything remotely close.)</p>