Crazy U

<p>I have to agree that UVa is not exactly “Big State U” as the term is commonly understood. It is a public Ivy, for goodness sakes, with median SAT scores above those of our public Ivy here in NC–Chapel Hill. </p>

<p>Speaking of Chapel Hill: DS was admitted there but will probably attend U of Alabama because of its mega-generous merit aid. So, in a sense, I can’t totally relate to Mr. Ferguson’s situation: He’s OK with spending $20K per year on the in-state flagship; we’re not. ('Course, we’re a few years older and heading into retirement, which makes a difference; plus, we don’t make his kinda money.)</p>

<p>Nonetheless, although our circumstances differ from his, I still found that the book resonated with our experiences 99% of the time.</p>

<p>I do agree that he didn’t delve deeply enough into CC to find the genuinely helpful threads (which are numerous). But sometimes one can be so turned off by the less-than-helpful threads that one lacks incentive to explore further. Perhaps we should invite Mr. Ferguson back to CC and guide him toward the genuinely helpful threads and sub-fora? There are many, many VERY cool people at CC, and personally I have found some threads invaluable as treasure-troves of useful information and guidance.</p>

<p>*Our local paper had a whole article devoted to this book. *</p>

<p>dub–Is the article online? Can you post a link? Thanks!</p>

<p>FallGirl, I know I left out other reasons Virginia residents look elsewhere for school such as a specialized or better program elsewhere,etc. College Confidential kids and families are not typical in general. Lots of kids just go to their public universities or community colleges and don’t agonize over the whole process. For alot of kids, paying for college(or even having the opportunity to GO to college) is what they might agonize over.</p>

<p>“For alot of kids, paying for college(or even having the opportunity to GO to college) is what they might agonize over.”</p>

<p>sevmom–ain’t that the truth!!!</p>

<p>I guess Xiggi did not agree with my opinion of the book. I did find it hilarious at times (the desription of his breakfast with Kat the college counselor and her efforts to get her daughter into school is LOL!)and I do think it is a fairly accurate account of what we parents and our children go through in th current application process.</p>

<p>He did not “seek the advice” of the $40,000 counselor for his son, he just attended her lecture and interviewed her ther next day. He is, after all, writing a book.</p>

<p>Believe me, there are lot of “clueless parents” out there, if you mean by “clueless” that they are not familiar with a very complicated and demanding application process that virtually none of them experienced when they applied for college. I get calls from my friends all the time asking for help and recommendations on who to retain to assist their son or daughter. Our counselor did a great job for less than $3000 in CA. in getting our daughter focused and organized, and it has really paid off. </p>

<p>And as to the “misguideed” Mr. Ferguson, his son managed to get accepted at Villanova, UNC and U. of Virginia as well as wait listed at Notre Dame and Georgetown. Not too shabby!</p>

<p>LadyDi—it looks like it was a reprint from a NYTimes article…</p>

<p>[One</a> dad’s journey on the application trail - CharlotteObserver.com](<a href=“http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2011/03/08/2120271/one-dads-journey-on-the-application.html]One”>http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2011/03/08/2120271/one-dads-journey-on-the-application.html)</p>

<p>I had asked two posters to fill me in on the part about the college counselor ‘getting her child into school,’ and learned that it was pre-school, not college. So I’ll respond to both of these helpful posters by airing some info myself.</p>

<p>I don’t know where the research is on pre-school----> college results, but my anecdote may shed some light.</p>

<p>The second preschool that D1 was in was a really bad experience for her. The environment, particularly the owner(only teacher)'s personality was exceptionally controlling. Now, my daughter, and for that I myself, are quite comfortable with structure. We are no rebels, and in fact tend not to prefer extremely loosey-goosey enviornments. But the only kinds of teachers/authority figures who have never liked my daughter are those adults with (i.m.o.) an excessive need for control over others. Happened at this preschool; happened in grade 5. And at no other times, and both (female) teachers had similar personality traits. Both of these women despised my non-rebellious, introverted daughter and “couldn’t understand her.”</p>

<p>Having suffered through months of unhappiness there (loath to change I am), including suffering through months of D’s night terrors, hubby and I finally realized this was a bad environment for her. It was also a bad time to remove a child from an academic-year school, because chances of another preschool being open for new registrants were slim. Nevertheless, I accepted that no preschool was better than this preschool, and remove her I did.</p>

<p>To my surprise, there was in fact a preschool with one open spot, at an odd time of year. It turned out that one child’s family had to move suddenly. So we went there to heal. It turned out to be the ideal environment, socially, emotionally, and cognitively. What incidentally characterized this preschool – or at least this particular class – was something I recognize – having as I do special training & experience with gifted children: They were all of them, intellectually gifted. Every single one. The vocabulary level was unbelievable, and the concepts these kids would talk about, naturally & unpretentiously, among themselves, was a delight (from an educator’s perspective) to listen to. And the play was terrific: they were so compatible with each other, so cooperative & noncompetitive, yet they stimulated each other, obviously. </p>

<p>My daughter was extremely happy in this chance environment, and all us parents similarly got along extremely well – without any ‘showing off’ or comparisons or any such thing. We were just enjoying the heck out of the social interactions among the kids, and enjoying and learning from each other as adults & parents, as well. </p>

<p>Separately, I learned at some time after she enrolled there, that it was “one of the 2 best preschools” in the region. By “best” (at that time), was not meant “trajectory toward Ivy League.” It meant, literally, the teaching environment, the learning environment, and nothing else. And since clearly we weren’t there during any admissions season for the school, I had no opportunity to witness any ‘admissions frenzy’ or ‘college talk’ or any such thing. However, I would be surprised to have learned at any point that these parents would have been in that ‘frenzied’ category, as that was never apparent in their affect or their speech.</p>

<p>Fast forward to the first year of college for D1. I ran into one of those parents at the supermarket. Naturally I inquired about her D, who incidentally was best friends with mine at and beyond that preschool. She indicated her D was at Penn, I told her where mine was, and she added (paraphrasing): ‘every single member of that class at that nursery school is now at an Elite U.’ To her, and to me, we clearly saw this as an accidental result. The reason that every one of those families had chosen that preschool was location! It was far closer to any of them than it was to us. We had something like a 40 minute trip there every morning.</p>

<p>But, hello, they were all gifted! They also happened to have had a highly nurturing environment there and most assuredly in their homes. Nurturing intellectually and it would appear, emotionally – judging from the psychological ‘balance’ that appeared to be a trait of these parents.</p>

<p>In addition, every family but ours lived in the hills and had professional parents with solid incomes, so solid that these well-educated mothers were generally free to provide a rather idyllic (translation, low stress) setting for their little ones. They chose their own hours to suit their needs to be available appropriately for their children, wthout helicoptering or being manic about it. (They were calm types.)</p>

<p>So I’m going to suggest unscientifically that where kids end up going to college is far more related to their intrinsic potential than to any “program” provided by any preschool, let alone any invisible, magical connection. Certainly early environments can positively encourage intellectual curiosity, and thus have an effect on ultimate academic performance, but I can’t believe that a preschool is some singular factor that drives admissions results.</p>

<p>I’m starting the last chapter and I am blown away with the similarities between his boy and mine. Attitude, posture, effort, grunting, poor writing ability on anything that isn’t intrinsically interesting at the moment, lack of motivation for preparation, procrastination, poor clothing choices… you name it. They are clearly the same person. So, I am reassured in knowing his boy has successfully made it into college.</p>

<p>… Really? Wow, my parent did pretty much nothing in helping me with college application process– no SAT prep stuff, & she wouldn’t even proofread my essays, or help me drop them off at the post office! Oh well, at least she’s helping pay for the end result :)</p>

<p>I agree with what many have said…when I discovered Feguson’s “Big State U” was in fact UVa, I couldn’t help but roll my eyes and think, “Seriously? You’ve got to be kidding!” To try and convince his reader that his son ultimately chose the “average BSU” over privates is so deceiving and as some have said, “disingenuous”. UVa is very selective (for both IS and OOS applicants – ex. 22% acceptance rate for OOS applicants). McIntire is always in the top 5 undergrad business programs, the school has always been the #1 or #2 public school in the nation, and UVa has always been in USNWR top 25 schools overall. I would hardly call it your ordinary BSU.</p>

<p>I also fail to understand how anyone can be critical of Dean J. She’s one of the few/only adcoms who answers questions on a daily basis on the CC forum. This, to me, shows dedication to a pretty tough occupation. (I certainly couldn’t do it.)</p>

<p>I’m almost done with the book, but when I discovered on this thread “BSU” was actually UVa, it kind of ruined it for me.</p>

<p>Interesting, I always did think UVA was a big state school…how many students are at UVA? I know the midwest big state schools are really big…he’s not talking about “selectivity” the author was referencing size and culture…</p>

<p>Momom2 – LOL, I hear ya! Must be a Teenage Boy thing. I could relate, too, big-time. :)</p>

<p>Thanks, dub!! Are you in Charlotte? We’re near Winston-Salem but lived in Charlotte for nine months back in the late '90s. :)</p>

<p>momofthreeboys,UVa has about 13-14,000 undergrads. It was founded by Thomas Jefferson in 1819 and is part of a World Heritage Site(along with Monticello). It is a beautiful,historic campus.</p>

<p>I’m dizzy reading this thread. </p>

<p>A reporter from the Washington Post who must have gotten an advance copy told me I was was in this book. She said it was a brief mention, just noting that I post on CC. From the comments here, it sounds like the author is critical of my presence? </p>

<p>For what it’s worth, posting here, blogging, and tweeting aren’t officially part of my job. My online activity isn’t part of a marketing plan. The times of my posts should make that apparent.</p>

<p>Dean J: Those of us who have read your posts, know that there is no evil plot. We appreciate your insights. Most of us just want to have some clue of what is going on inside the Adcomms. We know we are only readng tea leaves.</p>

<p>Just got Crazy U from the library last night . . . LMAO! Ferguson is a very entertaining writer. Not sure if a hard-core CCer is going to learn anything new, but this is a very funny read and it hits us right where we are. he will make you feel that he has been spying on all of the parents at your child’s school that you and your friends have been talking about (behind their backs, of course.)</p>

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<p>The problem with Ferguson book is that while a hard-core CCer should understand how wrong the approach of the writer was, most readers might be lulled to believe that the story serves as a vindication of the parent. The reality is that Mr. Ferguson failed his son on all levels sp the very predictable result that his son ended up at the same school he would have without any parental “contribution.” </p>

<p>So, is the lesson to be learned that no matter how much helicoptering one does, it will not change the result? That is a very wrong message as most parents (without falling in the Amy Chua’s highly questionable micro-management) CAN help their children navigating the application process with reasonable success. Those are the stories told and shared on College Confidential. The same source that this father failed to understand in his prejudicial desire to criticize all facets of the admission process. </p>

<p>Mr. Ferguson sought the advice of a number of so-called experts, but his own prejudice made him turn to a panoly of wrong people. Did he really think that USNews’ Morse would help him? “Luminaries” such as Thacker or Vedder? Kat Cohen on a pro-bono basis? The dog-walking alumni who readers are led to believe can handicap the chances of applicants through an interview? The know-it-all at Fair Test?</p>

<p>What is there to learn from Ferguson’s approach on the essay? Had he eaten a bit of humility pie and stuck around long enough on CC, he might have realized how EASY it was to help his son find a voice that resonated well. The angle about needing a tragedy in one’s life is the conclusion of a misguided amateur. Yes, Mr. Bauld pointed that out, but Ferguson missed the part that he could have led his son to write something about his passion. Isn’t Gillum Ferguson a baseball fan who … did write about his presence and work at baseball games? An easy and colorful “slice of life” was a low-hanging fruit. Easy if Ferguson had decided to listen to “regular” Joes and Susans on CC, as opposed to experts he could assimilate with! </p>

<p>In the end, there is no doubt that Mr. Ferguson adores his son and was willing to help him with all his might, contacts, and love. But that does not mean he understood the process when he started and when he … ended.</p>

<p>glido,I can imagine it is a pretty funny read and seems he has sure tried to drum up sales by going on numerous talk shows and talking to the press. All the while initially being cagey about where his kid goes to school(and I agree with xiggi that he may well have ended up at this same school from the beginning ) to keep people guessing. As well as calling CC “worthless” to get enough people riled up here to keep talking about this and buy more books to see what he’s talking about. I’ll be like you and try to get it from the library (or glance at it in a store) but seldom buy books lately. I have enough of them lying around already!</p>

<p>There is also a blurb & photo of the author & his son in this week’s People magazine (the one with Charlie Sheen on the cover). The promotion machine is in high gear.</p>

<p>ETA: meant to add my thanks to Dean J for keeping everyone informed on the UVA forum.</p>