<pre><code> from Morning Edition, Thursday , December 16, 2004
</code></pre>
<p>Parents head to the lecture hall to learn what to avoid when trying to help their children apply for college. Some parents get so nervous about their kids getting into school that, in some cases, they are causing extra stress for the teen. NPR's Claudio Sanchez reports.</p>
<p>I, sadly, am a definate culprit in the obsessive parent department. Interesting post, thank you very much for that - I'll try my best in the future :)!</p>
<p>Bates apparently separates parents and children from each other on the tours...a good idea, my kid would love it if I didn't ask the embarassing questions.</p>
<p>By the way, does anyone know a good book designed specifically for parents in the admissions process? I haven't been able to find a book targeted especially to overzealous parents such as myself.</p>
<p>Try "Letting Go: A Parents' Guide to Understanding the College Years", by Karen Levin Coburn, Madge Lawrence Treeger</p>
<p>I listened to this and found it interesting. </p>
<p>Parents writing their kid's essays for them? I would never think of writing my d's essays. She has shown me a couple of them and they are better than I could have written. Her English teacher did help her by suggesting a few changes. But that was the extent of any adult involvement.</p>
<p>Also, after having read a bit on this whole process, I agree that those elite schools are just loooking for a particular something in the application that appeals to them. They are not necessarily looking for the student with the perfect stats. Parents can do their best to give their children opportunities, but they cannot produce the perfect applicant. </p>
<p>I know that my daughter was stressed out enough on her own trying to pick out her colleges without me telling her which colleges she should apply to. I was more of a sounding board for her rather than a dictator saying that only certain colleges were good enough for her. I made suggestions and then lived with her decisions on which ones she decided to apply. This was admittedly hard for me to do. This will mean that she does not apply to many of the colleges that I wish that she would. But her decisions will be ones she made and she will have herself to thank for having applied (or not) to the right ones.</p>
<p>Anyway, thanks for sharing this program.</p>
<p>I did strongly suggest some schools, but my daughter decided whether or not to apply to them. She would have been happy just looking at and applying to the one school that she thought she would attend since she was little. ( Evergreen)
It helps that we know several people that we like and respect with degrees from Evergreen, one was even in the Presidents cabinet.
I didn't attend college, and I really didn't know much about the process, but the internet is a wonderful ( addictive) thing, and I had a lot of help from online resources Like Bruce Hammond coeditor of Fiske guide, even though her high school counselor wasn't a lot of help.</p>
<p>I thought the glass slipper analogy was good when she was talking about trying to force a kid to fit to a school. I had a little more of a problem with her insistance that everything be left up to the kids. I suspect that her daughter has good organizational skills and school support, so she is assuming that everyone's kid does. If all kids were up to doing the entire college app process entirely themselves, why would the counselor's office of "good" high schools ride herd on kids to make sure they meet all the deadlines and include all the pieces? And what's the difference btwn. the counselor's office doing that and a parent doing that? These kids have been spoon fed their coursework for 12 years, with teachers issuing multiple reminders of exams & assignments, and requiring students to turn in preliminary stages of major papers. Most 17 year olds have never taken on anything as large and complicated as college apps entirely by themselves with no organizational support from any adult. Why choose this particular thing to suddenly decide that every kid has to "sink or swim" doing it entirely themselves in order to become adults? Isn't it enough that they'll be on their own in a few months when they get to college?</p>
<p>there's a book called "panicked parents' guide to the college admissions process" or something written by two staffers at Smith's admissions dept.</p>
<p>A therapist once told me that she knew parents who completely filled out their kids' college applications, including signing the kids name and mailing them in -- all without the kids' knowledge!</p>
<p>That is crazy
Why would you even want to?
My niece who did very well in school but who has an unusually close relationship with her mother, allowed her mother to "edit" her essays. She only was admitted to her two safeties. After reading the family xmas letter, I am wondering if the mom hurt more than she helped.</p>
<p>When my D went through the admissions process (including voice auditions) I had NO involvement. She was at Interlochen and I was in Texas. I never saw an application or an essay. Now that I have discovered this board and am freaking out about how competitive admissions are and how complicated the whole process is, I keep telling her that I don't know how she got into college! I am only half-kidding, since I am tempted to take the whole process away from my son (hs junior)! She did no prep for SAT IIs and took a poor prep course at Interlochen for SAT I. My D, in fact, was admitted to almost every school to which she applied and is a happy soph at Rice. S is not quite as organized, but I doubt that he will let me see an essay. His boarding school is very firm on what the kids need to do and what the parents can do (basically, some research on schools, taking the kid on visits and providing $$$ for applications). Being somewhat of a controlling person, I am chomping at the bit....... Karen</p>
<p>If this woman is so determined to leave it up to the kids, who does she suggest pay the hundreds of dollars to the College Board for tests SHE requires the kids to take?</p>
<p>Why doesn't she tell the kids, in plain English, that 90+ percent of them will be flushing their hard-earned $60 down the drain when they apply to her school?</p>
<p>Why doesn't she provides acceptance odds data, broken down by race, gender, and SAT, in a way that high school students can possibly comprehend so that they have a prayer of finding the right match on their own? Instead, she and most of her collegues all but lie to the kids about the realities of the admissions process.</p>
<p>Her little speech is full of indignation, but who is kidding who? Parents shouldn't be involved in a decision that will cost them $160,000? I wonder if she would let her high school daughter go off and buy a house for the family?</p>
<p>Well said, InterestedDad!</p>
<p>KareninDallas:</p>
<p>The MIT woman conveniently overlooks the fact that elite boarding school students get a tremendous amount of assistance in the college application process. It's easy for these kids to "do it all on their own" when their guidance counselors are on a first name basis with the college adcoms. In essence, they are getting a professional college counselor included in their tuition.</p>
<p>I think this woman is being terribly disingenuous to suggest that parents of public school kids (who get zero useful college counseling) should not provide the same kind of support.</p>
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<p>I had a little more of a problem with her insistance that everything be left up to the kids. I suspect that her daughter has good organizational skills and school support, so she is assuming that everyone's kid does.<</p>
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<p>My reaction was much like yours, and IDad's - while I think we may be over involved, I'm not sure what she describes is realistic, wise financially, or even fair to students from schools with poor guidance situations.
THe thought that popped into my head was - that'll solve all their problems at MIT admissions, only 1 out of 10 of the kids that apply now will be able to get their act together well enough to get the application in on time ;)!</p>
<p>If I'm correct, Jones's child goes to a suburban high school that is a real powerhouse and has excellent GCs. That, of course, is not true of student. It's interesting to me that it seems that MIT adcoms read CC. One of the adcoms has a blog where he referenced CC. A perusal of CC posts would show that many students, parents, and GCs often have no clue about colleges not in their state.</p>
<p>Interesteddad is right on target about decisions costing over $160,000...There is a big difference between intelligence and wisdom..Many of these best and brightest are clueless when it comes to daily matters...</p>
<p>Like all parental behaviors, the "college application-related" behaviors occurs on a spectrum, depending on all the variables we could all articulate- parent variables, child variables, expectation variables, knowledge variables, financial variables, GC support variables..you name it. While there might be an absolute wrong- having the parent do the entire application, write essays, etc....I would just suggest that there are "many forms of right." I think there are many, many ways of helping and supporting that are far short of intrusive, controlling etc. </p>
<p>I didn't hear the NPR broadcast but can sumise its content. I found our information session at MIT to be disingenuous as well. The overfocus on "cool stuff" as a strategy to "cool nerves" was simplistic and negligent simultaneously in my mind. I understand what they are trying to do in the application format and emphasis- trying to see the genuine kid, trying to not augment anxiety, etc. I just think that they have sacrificed a chance to portray the reality of the school- and in doing so have deprived at least some kids of the chance to say (before they spend the $60) that MIT just isn't for them...</p>
<p>The statistics are daunting.Some kids, and some parents, have dreams. Parents have checkbooks.</p>
<p>When you think about it, what could be a more optimum scenario than family involvement in a family decision? Isn't that exactly the kind of support that a family is supposed to provide? To me, it's a healthier approach to sit around the kitchen table as a family and kick around the pros and cons of colleges than leave it up to paid advisor in the guidance office. I found the entire process of watching a young adult make decisions to be one that brought us closer.</p>
<p>I think that college adcoms try very hard to obscure the fundamental nature of college selection: it's a commercial transaction, a buyer and a seller. When was the last time you saw a viewbook tout "great value for your money"? Even the merit aid schools that have a very commercially driven approach to admissions don't run big headlines about their "Presidential Scholars Program" saying, "$5000 Cash Back to Qualified Customers!"</p>
<p>Karenindallas,
Your child got into college because she had amazing GCs who were able to do things that most highly sophisticated parents can not do. Some of her GCs also may have been personal friends with the adcoms. For instance, I know the head of a top New England prep school who was an adcom at Harvard.</p>
<p>I encountered a GC from Interlochen when I ran a statewide scholarship program that was based in Detroit. A finalist came from Interlochen, and the GC drove him to Detroit. He clearly had been very well prepped by the GC about how to handle the situation. I am sure she also helped him with his application. I don't mean that she helped him cheat or did the application for him. I am sure, though, she explained to him that he needed to write the essay early enough to have time to revise it. She also made sure that he knew to type his application, and that he made time for that. She probably also had practiced interviewing with him, because he knew how to present himself in a confident, informed way.</p>
<p>There was a big difference between that student and public school applicants, particularly those from the less well funded public schools. Those students had no idea how to dress or present themselves, their applications were handwritten and filled with careless errors. Their GC letters were generic with sparse info. The students were shy in the interviews, and they didn't ask questions or speak up about their accomplishments.</p>