Crime statistics: Cleveland, Baltimore, Philly, Boston

College Majors Music Major
1

<p>We are in the process of applying to music schools. As we are unfamiliar with these cities, we have been looking at the crime stats for each. Living near NYC, so we looked up crime stats for here as well. The most recent year we looked at was 2012.</p>

<p>It is shocking to look at the murder/rape/assault etc numbers for Cleveland and not be wildly alarmed about safety in that city; Baltimore is also very frightening, specifically in the zip code where Peabody is. As a contrast, NYC's stats are about on par with Boston and LA, significantly lower than Baltimore, Philly, or Cleveland. We are well aware that from neighborhood to neighborhood the feel and safety can change, but the overall stats seem to tell another story.</p>

<p>Does anyone have thoughts about these cities and this issue of safety? I would love to know if perhaps the schools have tremendous security measures in place.</p>

<p>Thanks for any insights.</p>

2

<p>Look up the crime rates for Montreal and then add McGill University’s Schulich School of Music. </p>

3

<p>I had the same concerns as you when my S put Peabody on his list of schools. However, when we went for the audition I was pleasantly surprised at Baltimore in general. People were very friendly. I did lots of walking around during the day (by myself) in the Peabody neighbourhood and everything was fine. The school is in the arts area of town so there are museums around and beautiful historical buildings. The school itself encompasses one city block and the portions without buildings are fenced so the whole block is very secure. The head of security (a former Baltimore policeman) has a large staff and they have security cameras all over that are monitored 24/7. The residences require a card to get in and cards to use the elevator. They also have a program to get students who live off campus home safely at night. </p>

<p>That being said, I do know that Baltimore has it’s fair share of crime. As with any large city, one just needs to know the areas to avoid, not walk alone at night, etc.</p>

<p>Crime stats within each of the schools might be a better reflection of safety. Not sure if these are publicly available but the schools themselves might have them if you ask.</p>

4

<p>Every urban area is going to have crime, chiefly because there tends to be a lot of poverty and homelessness. The cities that get it right (or better…) tend to have lower crime levels. But no city is “safe” per se: per 100 people, at least 1 likely thinks and/or acts like a sociopath In a city, where so many are packed closely together – and adding the poverty and homeless factors – you’re simply going to have crime, or attempts at crime.</p>

5

<p>All universities accepting federal aid are required to disclose certain crime statistics. <a href=“Campus Safety and Security”>Campus Safety and Security;

6

<p>DD is off campus in Cleveland. There are places you do not walk off campus and everyone learns where those are. Then it is just sensible city behavior, not being out alone late etc. At night she drives to campus instead of the walk she does during the day. Students living on campus are in a very well patrolled area close to the music school. The above link gives you the specific campus reports. </p>

7

<p>I can help out with the Cleveland question too. As Singersmom07 commented, you learn where to go and which areas are iffy. The high crime areas are deep into East Cleveland and certain neighborhoods in the western parts of Cleveland. There are great and very safe sections of the city and county, of course.
I’ll assume that you are thinking about CIM- the conservatory sits on a corner of the Case Western campus and their dorm is right next to the conservatory building. You’re guaranteed housing there for the first year, and most students stay there for the second also. You get a transit pass which allows you to ride the buses and trains and there is nice and very affordable housing in the vicinity.My D left the dorm after her first year, moved up to the Coventry Rd area and took the bus to and from school every day ( older students often have cars, so it’s never hard to grab a ride either and if she was at school at night for a rehearsal or performance, there was always someone who would offer rides home). There are also two campus buses that run loops through the school and even up to the train line station where you can get the train that lets you off right in Cleveland Hopkins Airport.</p>

<p>University Circle comprises not only CIM, CSWRU and CIA(the art school) but also the Botanical Gardens , the Transportation, Natural History and Art Museums. Severance Hall, home of the Cleveland Orchestra, is a 10 minute walk from the dorm- students get amazing deals on tickets, so there are kids walking back & forth at night.
If you visit the school, “crime reports” are posted on a bulletin board in the basement and if anything is amiss, you also get an electronic message if you so desire. </p>

<p>Don’t let the “murder/rape/assault numbers” in Cleveland frighten or deter you. I have heard of just a couple of students who had their cell phones stolen, but crime on the campus isn’t at all common and the University Circle Police force is a visible presence.</p>

8

<p>I agree that there is crime in most urban areas. As somebody who lives in the Boston metro area I can tell you that crime is something you should be concerned about. But at the same time it probably should not be a major deciding factor in your choice of conservatory. The trick is not being complacent or foolish and having city-smarts. You want to make sure you are aware of your surroundings, carrying your personal belongings appropriately, being careful and traveling with a buddy at night etc etc…</p>

<p>If you live in NYC then you will remember that last year somebody was robbed and shot in Bryant Park. I thin of Bryant park as a tourist location and in my opinion a particularly SAFE part of the city even late at night). Crime in urban areas happens.</p>

<p>My son, who is in school in Boston just moved to an apartment in a neighborhood that I think of as being bad in order to get more affordable rent. And yet that particular neighborhood is surrounded by colleges: Northeastern, Wentworth, Mass College of Art, School of Museum of Fine Arts, and many medical schools as well. College officials will lecture students to not walk with their cell phone’s out, not carry shopping bags from expensive stores like Best Buy, travel in groups, keep their doors locked at night etc… There are services in Boston such as Lyft and Uber that you can use to get from point A to point B at night if you find yourself alone and without a companion to walk with. I am less concerned with crime than I am with sloppy landlords that fail to make sure their buildings are up to code and have working sprinklers and smoke detectors in them.</p>

9

<p>Thanks for all the responses. Mezzo’sMama, all of that CIM detail is helpful. Stradmom that link is a goldmine of information. From the offenses listed for CIM and Peabody it’s very clear they have serious security in place. And StacJip I will now add to my list of things to be anxious about; the concerns never end.</p>

10

<p>When we visited Peabody, we walked around the conservatory within a two- or three-block radius and it seemed like a fine area. The person in charge of security told us, however, that a student should never plan on walking all the way to Johns Hopkins - instead, take the free shuttle. Somewhere between the two schools there is an unsafe area.</p>

11

<p>You can make yourself crazy worrying about this stuff. Crime can happen anywhere–small town and rural campuses are not exempt. I’ve been to all of the campuses you mention and have never felt security was an issue. Kids (and everyone else) need to use common sense. They’re more likely to be injured from use of alcohol or drugs than to be crime victims, especially if they live on campus. </p>

12

<p>Which Philly schools? The largest have private police, trained at the regular academies like regular police, and the city and university forces cooperate. At Penn, biggest cause of crime is theft of unattended property. I’ve lived in middle of the city and have been fine for years.</p>

13

<p>I lived in Baltimore for many years, and my daughter has taken classes at Peabody prep. The area around Peabody is fine during the day, though there are a few aggressive panhandlers. The zip code does include crime-ridden blocks where a conservatory student is unlikely to go. I will say it would be far safer to rely on shuttles and taxis than to own a car at Peabody, unless you’re able to rent a secure space in a supervised garage. (Not sure whether that exists.)</p>

<p>Most conservatory students don’t have the time or inclination for a lot of bar-hopping, which would not be a smart thing to do on foot from Peabody. My baby brother went to Hopkins and he scared me a bit, because he’s the type to explore corner bars, etc. in exactly the area lastbird was warned about. He survived four years of doing that without incident, but I don’t recommend that.</p>

<p>I think mostly the way that Peabody kids stay safe is by staying in the building. There are incident reports posted on bulletin boards around campus. I don’t think I’ve ever noticed anything involving violence on the campus itself.</p>

<p>I don’t know anyone in the cello department, but the inside of Peabody is a very friendly place across the board.</p>

<p>As for kinds of towns, I went to Michigan (not for music), and you’d think of Ann Arbor as a lovely and safe town, but I would venture a guess that a significant percentage of the crimes (particularly date rape) that do happen there involve college students. I think you have to pay more attention to the statistics from the school itself than the city as a whole.</p>

14

<p>All of the schools mentioned have similar crime rates and similar concerns. I have visited all with one of my kids during the college search. CIM is exactly as the earlier poster stated. Boston had some really big rats! With all of these cities, it is important to know what areas to avoid and to not be out too late. </p>

<p>D lives across the street from Peabody and has lived there for two years. There is a bar a few doors down from where she lives which seems to be the “Peabody bar” according to her. She plays in Peabody groups (she’s an NIDA bac) and going to the bar is a post-performance thing. The nice thing about bars is the fact that they card so younger students are less likely to engage in this activity. From what I have seen, there was nothing sketchy about the bar. There is a lot of action in the neighborhood (Charles Street) until 9:00 or so-students and young professionals out and about. D says not to walk back from the train station and won’t ride the city buses. The Hopkins bus circles from the Hopkins campus to Peabody to the hospital. It ends at Bayside and loops again throughout the day but not . D walks down to the harbor during the day (lots of cops down there around the shops). </p>

15

<p>It is three miles from Peabody to John Hopkins campus. Students are better off taking the shuttle; it would be hard to make class on time by walking. My daughter does walk from the train station to Peabody during the day, but takes a taxi when it’s dark. This is just common sense in a large city. There were some instances with students getting too close to a knife fight last year, but that was a 3AM–again, use common sense.</p>

16

<p>The most common form of crime on campuses here is cell phone theft! Don’t walk alone if possible and don’t walk with your cell phone visible…</p>

17

<p>CIM had a few fairly bold on the street cell phone thefts last year, but other than that the area is very safe. Case is expanding constantly and I’m sure that in a few years CIM will be completely surrounded by hospitals and university buildings. The police presence is constant. When we were looking at music schools the stats we were more concerned with the ones concerning safety inside the schools, not problems from the outside. Having your cell phone stolen on the street is one thing and date rape ( and how the university does or does not handle it ) is another. Kids aren’t going to be safer just because they are out in a cornfield somewhere. </p>

18

<p>Like others said, you have to be careful about crime stats, they reflect an entire city and in most cities the kind of violent crime you are talking about varies from area to area. When I went to school in NYC in the early 80’s, and lived in a borough in the late 80’s, the murder rate soared to over 2000 a year, but if you looked at the stats, much of that happened in areas you likely wouldn’t be anywhere near as a student. Baltimore has a nasty reputation, but again, if you look at where the crime happens, it is much like that, it tends to happen in certain areas. </p>

<p>In a city, you pretty quickly learn how to be careful, and get to know which areas are okay and which are not, and how to be street smart. In reality, a lot of it is common sense, and usually schools make an effort to let kids know where the problem areas are, and common sense techniques to be safe (like, having your call phone constantly in your hand chatting or texting when walking isn’t always so bright, even in a good area there are people looking for that). I used to ride the subway through the south bronx on my way home from work at a time when the crime rates were very high in NYC, and I am talking well after midnight, and I didn’t have problems. One of the tricks is to not flash things that are expensive, if you are wearing jewelry turn expensive rings so the stones don’t show, if you go shopping at expensive stores try to keep the names from showing, or if doing that, take a cab rather than mass transit. If you have a need to go to an area a bit more dodgy, dress down, one of the things criminals look for are easy targets and also someone who has something that is worth it to them. When I worked nights, I was wearing Jeans and a sweatshirt, didn’t have jewelry, and probably was stressed out from work, probably thought I was nuts:)…</p>

<p>And schools are usually pretty careful with security, they know that it is a big concern and they also know they could face not only negative publicity, but lawsuits if something happens, it isn’t good for business. Last I checked Yale is not exactly in a great area (I could be wrong, been a long time since I have been there), when my brother went to Columbia in the late 70’s the area surrounding Columbia was not that great to the east and north of the campus, lots of really good schools can be in so so areas like Penn.and they know that, and are careful.</p>

<p>My take is that crime statistics in the city itself should be a concern, but not a major one, I would recommend worrying more about the quality of the school than crime statistics. Common crimes tend to be things like cellphones or computers being stolen, while I don’t have any direct stats, I would be willing to bet that schools in non urban areas probably have issues with the similar crimes at roughly the same rate (put it this way, sexual assault is sexual assault, whether the perp is a fellow student or a stranger…)…on the other hand, if a school is in a bad area and on checking it out you don’t feel safe, then whatever the statistics are, trust your gut, fear is a funny thing, you don’t want to live someplace where you don’t feel comfortable…but check the place out first, don’t let crime stats or what 'others say" deter you. My brother went to Columbia, and a lot of neighbors and such in the dear old burbs where we lived were all up in arms about ‘the dangerous city’ and so forth, yet he went through 4 years just fine, got a good degree…meanwhile a HS classmate of his went to a big state school, supposedly in a great area, and ended up the victim of a brutal robbery and assault and where his GF was assaulted as well (and the irony being said kids parent was one of the loudest saying my parents were ‘stupid’ to let my brother go to Columbia, and how where her boy was going was ‘clean and safe’…). </p>

19

<p>Great suggestions musicprnt. One thing I did when D moved to Baltimore was to look at the crime map (the ones with the fist and running burglars superimposed on the street maps). These maps describe the type of crime, time of day of the crime, assailant stats -if known- and general data about the victim (age, sex, etc). I also looked at the demographics on who was involved in a crime. The vast majority of Baltimore crimes occur in poor areas, often involve drugs and young males. That is not to say other crimes don’t happen but the statistics are affected by problems in the city. What often drives the crime rate up is “criminal against criminal” acts such as shootings, drug deals going sour, etc.</p>