<p>I had another thread on this board regarding my son's criminal charge. He was charged with DWI 2 years ago and it was reduced to misdemeanor reckless driving. Just received paperwork that the DWI charge itself has been expunged from his record. All that will show now on criminal background checks will be the misdemeanor reckless driving. </p>
<p>On one of his applications this is how the criminal background question is worded...</p>
<p>"For the purpose of the following six questions, "crime" or "criminal charge" refers to any crime other than a traffic-related misdemeanor or an infraction. You must, however, include alcohol or drug offenses whether or not they are traffic related. You must disclose criminal charges or crimes dismissed as a result of a deferred prosecution agreement or any other arrangement under which you accepted responsibility for an alleged crime. Complete honesty is expected"</p>
<p>I am confused. This was a drug/alcohol related charge, but resulted in a misdemeanor traffic offense. Also does "other arrangement" mean expunged? Could they have worded this a little more vague??? I have no clue how to proceed. I do not want them to think we are hiding it - we will list it if we need to. </p>
<p>It was not dismissed…expungment is not a dismissal. The “charge” of DWI is erased from the file - can only be seen in extreme situations and only by certain officials. This was not a “deferred prosecution agreement” either. We had to apply for the expungement and it is a court order granted to remove it from the criminal file.</p>
<p>The question already states we do not have to report misdemeanor traffic offences so the reckless driving would not need to be reported from my understanding. It is the charge of DWI that I do not know how to handle due to the “any other arragement” part of the question. </p>
<p>Would be nice to hear if anyone has encountered this.</p>
<p>Was he charged with DWI and <em>that</em> was reduced to reckless driving? Did they dismiss the DWI at the time IF he pled to reckless driving? If so, you would have no reason to include it on your app.</p>
<p>Anyone can be charged with anything. (Well, they can.) What counts is what he was actually guilty of, or what he was sentenced for. That’s what they are asking–they want to know if one pled guilty to a crime and received a deferred judgment. A deferred judgment basically means you fulfill the court’s order, usually in the form of therapy, community service, restitution, etc., and if you stay out of trouble for a certain amount of time, that charge will be dismissed as if it never happened.</p>
<p>That is NOT the same as being charged with DWI, then going to court and pleading guilty to reckless driving in exchange for the court dismissing the DWI charge.</p>
<p>(Seven years’ experience in the criminal court system for both a prosecutor and a prominent criminal defense attorney.)</p>
<p>Nothing was done in exchange for…he was charged with DWI due to car accident. He plead guilty to misdemeanor reckless driving. The DWI would have stayed on his record (as the original charge) had we not applied for the expungement. Now the charge cannot be seen if a check is run just the reckless driving can be seen.</p>
<p>No community service or anything like that, just a fine. </p>
<p>I re-read what you said. He did plead guilty to a reduced charge. But from what our attorney told us the original charge could still be seen if a criminal background check was performed. That is why he applied for the expunction. </p>
<p>We do not want to hide anything or mislead the school, but if we do not have to tell them about the original charge I would like to leave it off. I have no problem with the reckless driving part (well I do, but not as far as listing it on the application!!)</p>
<p>Expunged means expunged. Reckless driving is the same flavor as speeding, a misdemeanor. Sometimes a judge or a prosecutor will give someone a break. But remember, police are trained to over charge people they arrest as a tactic to make the people confess guilt to lesser charges they are not guilty of. Police and prosecutors know it’s the most expeditious and economical course for the person being charged. Who can pay pay thousands in legal fees on a crap shoot when a few hundred dollars will make this all go away. It’s all about compiling arrest and conviction stats.</p>
<p>Expunged means his records are sealed, I think?
Although he pled down to reckless driving, he still was arrested for DWI.
If the DWI actually had gone away with the reckless driving sentence, he wouldn’t have needed the records to be expunged…</p>
<p>Did he go through alcohol treatment, or was the biggest concern car insurance rates?</p>
<p>Yes expunged means that certain item is sealed, which in this case is the DWI charge. </p>
<p>He did not have any treatment, community service, nothing…just a fine. Insurance rates did go up slightly due to the reckless driving based only on the points associated with that (4 points on license and 4 for insurance). Those will all fall off after a certain amount of time. </p>
<p>This was a one time horrible mistake and resulted in a car accident (totaled our car). This actually happened 2 years ago while trying to fit into a group of older kids. No issues since then. This awful experience has changed my child for the better… thank goodness! They were going to dismiss the whole thing as the blood results never came back (still have not!!), but due to the severity of the accident the judge felt a reduced charge of reckless driving was appropriate. I agree he was very reckless!!!</p>
<p>I am fine with listing the misdemeanor on the application. I am just not sure about the DWI charge since it is now sealed (expunged). I have emailed his GC to see if she can call back the college he is wanting and give the more detailed information and see what they say.</p>
<p>As a layman, these 2 sentences clinch it for me:
“You must, however, include alcohol or drug offenses whether or not they are traffic related.” and “Complete honesty is expected”.</p>
<p>While the S got no alcohol conviction, he was charged with an alcohol offense.
So imo, what he was “guilty of” is not the only consideration. How zealous a policeman may be is also not relevant to answering the app question truthfully; although it could be seen as a rationalization.
Expungement means a hiding of charges/convictions- it does not mean going back in time to avoid getting charges.
How likely it is the school might find out, how honest a person wants to be on an app are interesting, but not what Op is asking.
I’m with fishymom, post 2.</p>
<p>You have answered your own question. I would not report the DWI, as your son did not “accept responsibility” for it. It was also not dismissed as part of any agreement. I don’t believe this is even a technicality that you’re using to avoid reporting; it doesn’t fall under the scope of their question. </p>
<p>How unfair of the school to deliberately try to circumvent a valid legal procedure.</p>
<p>“How unfair of the school to deliberately try to circumvent a valid legal procedure.”</p>
<p>I agree!! We have a legal document signed off by a judge that states the charge (DWI) is sealed and there are only a few select people that can view it. What is the point of going to this expense (not to mention 6 months time) to have this expunged if we have to list it on applications any way. </p>
<p>We do not want to be dishonest. We just do not want our S to be judged unfairly. That person is not who he is now. I just checked the application (which is online) and there is a place to type 150 words about the charge/conviction. I do not think we can portray who he is now in that many words as well as describe the incident. How do you attach something to it? </p>
<p>Sorry to be so needy, but our S is a first generation college student and we are just at a loss to this whole procedure.</p>
<p>We have already asked him. He said legally we do not have to list it on any application as a judge granted the expunction. However, he said it can depend on where potential employer or school gets their background checks done as some 3rd party companies will not correct their records once a expunction has been granted. So it could show up, you just never know. </p>
<p>After all of the discussion tonight, I think we are just going to report it. We will just have to say that the DWI was never proven and the reckless driving was applied due to the accident/damage caused. I would rather list it and explain it than not list it and it show up. Such a convoluted situation, but we want to give our S the best chance of getting into a decent college!</p>
<p>Without seeing the exact questions that are asked, it’s impossible to answer what should be included. If the question is have you ever been charged…it will likely result in a different answer than if the question is have you ever been convicted. You should probably ask your lawyer for an opinion on this. I don’t see it as the school being unfair. It may not be the last time he’s facing this, or a similar, question, so it’s wise to get it clarified.</p>
<p>If his high school is aware of the charge, they may be obligated to release that information.</p>
<p>From what I gather it is highly unusual for. dWI to be bargained down to a wet reckless driving charge, particularly when the driver was 16 & involved in a bad accident.
You must have had a skilled attorney.
However, it also appears that if there is a 2nd arrest for DWI, the sentencing will be for a second DWI conviction even if the first sentencing was for a lesser charge.</p>
<p>His Principal is aware of the accident and charge. Not sure what they are required to report, but he has said it does not affect his current enrollment. </p>
<p>We did have a good attorney and there were some things that occurred where the DWI could not be proven (not on our part). They were going to dismiss the whole thing, but the judge felt some form of penalty should apply due to the property damage (not just our car - crossed center line too).</p>
<p>You are right a second arrest for DWI could cause that other charge to come back up, but it was never proven that he was impaired (no breath or blood results). Bit of a legal mess might result with that, but I pray that will not happen!! He is fully aware of that and has been very responsible since that day. I see many lectures coming if he is accepted to a college away from here.</p>
<p>Thanks guys - we have decided to list both the charge and the outcome. Let the chips fall as they may. If he is meant to go to college past CC it will happen me worrying about it is not going to help anything!!</p>
<p>Can you call the admissions office and ask them? That way you are being honest, but it may be that they will say no, their main objective is to check for convictions and that if the record is expunged, that is the end of it, who knows. I would double check with them before entering this information on a permanent form, which negates the purpose of expunging the record in some ways.</p>