<p>IMO, it seems very clear to me that nothing needs to be listed. If his plea was misdemeanor reckless driving, and that’s all his plea was, that is not a drug or alcohol related offense. They are asking for what he has either claimed he was guilty of or what it was convicted of. If none of those things have ever included anything other than traffic misdemeanors and infractions then there’s nothing to list. Simply being charged with something is completely irrelevant.</p>
<p>As you can see there are two ways to look at what they are asking for. The subsequent question after the one I listed in my first post are just the yes/no response, details of a yes answer, pending charges, and a few other things about action take by a school that did not apply. </p>
<p>I am at a loss what to do at this point. Can I call a school myself and ask without divulging my child’s name and information? I think if he calls he will not know how to word the questions to get the needed information. I had asked his GC to call again, but then had a change of heart last night and asked her not to call. I just don’t know how to proceed and feel I am harassing his GC!!</p>
<p>This is starting to make me sick…</p>
<p>I totally agree with Vladenshutte two posts above.</p>
<p>Luvthat48, I know you said your boy has changed, and as a parent, what more could we want after something like this would happen. But I hope he’s watching you struggle over this, and that he realizes again that his actions have far reaching repercussions that he never could have imagined. The whole thing sounds like it’s been, and continues to be, a great lesson for him, with the best possible outcome (being a minor, the expungement, and happening while he was still under your roof and under your influence).</p>
<p>Instead of calling one of the schools he’s applying to, can you call a school that he’s not applying to that asks the same question? </p>
<p>(((())))</p>
<p>I think you should call the school that he is applying to, and yes, you can do it anonymously. You will probably end up not reporting it, and feeling honest and okay about it. Document the call. The person at the other end may not know the answer and may need to do research. If and when they do give you an answer, write it down, date it and take the person’s name.</p>
<p>If it does need to be checked, which is doubtful, I think your son could write a brief note explaining what happened, what the end result is legally, and how he has changed. He would not have to divulge everything, only what is asked about. If this is needed, I would also ask the school where to put this note: in the “other things you want us to know about you” section online, or in the package from the guidance counselor, or separately?</p>
<p>Thanks so much guys!!!</p>
<p>This really means a lot. I have been so worried over this and so has he! One minute we are just going to put it on there and the next I feel we should investigate it more. His GC is going to hate me!!! I think I may call myself to a similar school nearby the one he wants as their app wording is the same (I just checked it out - both state schools) and see what they say.</p>
<p>I will let you know what I find out!!</p>
<p>Little update…</p>
<p>Per S’s GC - we only need to list the indicident on the app if the criminial record lists the DWI charge. She asked us to go get a copy of her record and see what it shows. If it is not listed then we do not have to list the misdemeanor at all since it is a traffic offense. They just wanted anything drug or alcohol listed (if it appears on their record). That is per the admissions counselor she spoke with.</p>
<p>I will let you guys know what it states when I get it.</p>
<p>I thought the misdemeanor was still alcohol related, and that would need to be reported. Drug or alcohol related offenses must be reported, whether traffic related or not. The wording is awkward, but what they want listed is any offense except traffic-related offenses that did not involve drugs or alcohol.</p>
<p>Yes, if you ask enough people, sooner or later one will have an answer you like.</p>
<pre><code> I agree the school is being unfair; I also think they should only ask about convictions. But they didn’t. They asked about any drug/alcohol related offenses.
</code></pre>
<p>Also- every day the student frets about the dilemma student has put him/her self in is a good life lesson for student. Past stupid acts can negatively affect the present and the future.</p>
<p>“I thought the misdemeanor was still alcohol related”</p>
<p>Nope it was reckless driving.</p>
<p>The school we called (which is his first choice) said if the charge has been expunged we do not need to put it on the app. And since the misdemeanor is only traffic related we do not need to list that at all as that is what the app says. </p>
<p>We now need to see if the expunction has been recorded with our local police (who made the charge) and with our state DMV. If it has, per the admissions counselor we do not need to list anything. </p>
<p>We all have learned so much from this!! His younger siblings have too. This has been a hard road and will never be totally over, but we are starting to get a grip on things. This accident could have turned out so much different and I would not be here trying to sort out college applications!</p>
<p>Glad you are getting clearer info.
I agree it is confusing.
Best wishes on college.</p>
<p>Good job.<br>
I believe the question you quoted in #1 is about ferreting out the chronic behavior issues or problems with judgment that could affect the college years. Just imo/ime: a reckless driving charge two years ago, at 16, is not an ultimate showstopper. The college would have no “current cause for concern.” It was a tough experience, yes, not underrating that. Kudos to him for turning this around. Best wishes.</p>
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<p>This is something to check on periodically. I don’t think a 16 year old,as a juvenile, would have charges listed anyway, but they might be. I’ve been working with a woman on a charge her adult child had expunged some time ago that keeps popping up on third party background check sites. It’s been a real headache (and expense) for her. There is little accountability from these places, kind of like the credit bureaus who have incorrect info.</p>
<p>I mention it because he may want to initiate cleanup efforts before he’s looking for a job after college.</p>
<p>An expungement is supposed to mean a clean record but in this day and age, it often is not.</p>
<p>Just one note for you - If your son has any thought that he may want to apply to law school one day, you may want to disclose the offense even though it was expunged. When applying to law school (and later to the bar of most states), one must reveal all convictions, including any that has been expunged from one’s record. Part of one’s application to the bar typically includes submitting a copy of one’s application to law school and, sometimes, application to college as well. If the information revealed on these forms differs from one to the next, it may raise issues when one sits before the ethics/character commission of the bar. Just a thought . . .</p>
<p>I assume Sally knows her stuff about law schools wanting to see all convictions- even those that are expunged. But even if true, how does that have any bearing on the Op’s child? There was no conviction for anything drug or alcohol related here.</p>
<p>^ Hmmm. sallyawp makes an interesting point. I agree you should save copies of any explanation ever made to facilitate consistency in future explanations.</p>
<p>But I’d still argue against revealing something when you’re not required. Every application stands on its own wording. If you can truthfully answer a question as asked without revealing something that triggers a flag, do it. For example, some law schools do recognize “expunged means expunged,” see, e.g., this excerpt from the University of Texas law school application: An applicant does not need to disclose information about a juvenile or criminal record that has been sealed or expunged; however, it is up to each applicant to ensure that his/her offense is in fact expunged and/or sealed under the relevant state law. <a href=“Application Procedures | Admissions and Financial Aid | Texas Law”>Application Procedures | Admissions and Financial Aid | Texas Law;
<p>^ agree with TX- also, OP has something on her side, so far: the college told her it does not need to be reported to them (assuming whatever last details are cleared up.) She is trying to accurately conform to the current expectations. She is making a “best judgment” based on several interpretations (the college, her own attorney, etc.) Her son can still disclose whatever is required on a law school app, per that school’s policy. Misdemeanors do not disqualify a law student from passing the Bar’s “moral character” test. Not reporting the misdemeanor on the college app isn’t a red flag. It’s explainable.</p>
<p>OP here - just wanted to note for clarity sake that my son will not be going to law school or anything remotely like that. It will be more in the medical field I think or possibly design of some sort. Still trying to figure that out before we start sending in applications. And no, will not be a doctor, but maybe a therapist (more hands on).</p>
<p>I do see sally’s point, but we have asked the potential school (others are in same public school system) and we are doing as they asked. If the charge is still on there (criminal and DMV records) when we go to apply we will list it on the application. The conviction does not have to be listed regardless as it is a traffic misdemeanor per the school. </p>
<p>I know each school is different and should someone in the future read this thread, I hope they will contact their perspective school and ask before they omit or add things from the application.</p>
<p>Is your son thinking of medical school?</p>
<p>I know someone who had a charge for cocaine possession (small amount). I’m not sure what he pled to, but he hired a lawyer to get it “expunged.” He went through college and med school, and when applying for a residency was asked a similar question. He answered ‘no’ because of the expungement. Somehow they got a record of the charge. He got kicked out of the residency (after he had been admitted), and almost lost his medical license.</p>
<p>He wasn’t disciplined because of the charge, but for lying on the application.</p>
<p>The wording of the application that you quoted seems pretty clear–report anything and everything, expungement or not. </p>
<p>What someone tells you over the phone is not necessarily going to cover you if another person looks over the file.</p>
<p>And on the internet, nothing is ever expunged.</p>
<p>LurkerDad - I do not think you read that passage from the application correctly. It did not say to list anything and everything. It did say NOT to include traffic related misdemeanors. That is what my son plead guilty to - reckless driving which is a misdemeanor. So that does not need to be included regardless. His guilty plea did not have anything to do with drugs or alcohol even though that is what he was charged with. The charge was never proven. This was not a reduced plea as a “wet” reckless as some states have - we do not have that in ours (according to our attorney).</p>
<p>He is not considering medical school to be a doctor/nurse, possibly a physical therapist or occupational therapist. He would not have to go to a medical school for that as many regular schools offer it. He is also considering some other things, so we are not real sure yet. He would have to get his masters to be a PT or OT. </p>
<p>BTW, he is also applying to a private university as a safety. It would cost more, but is a little closer to home. We already know they only require felony convictions to be reported. That is all - nothing about what you are charged with. We did call to verify that and that is all they look at. They do not even request the background check to list what a person was charged with only with their actual convictions. Seems they can request only the information they want to be on the report. They do not even pull a report unless a felony is disclosed on the app.</p>
<p>It is a hard thing to figure out. I am back and forth on it all the time. I am going to wait until the ACT scores come out and then get his criminal record and DMV record and see what they show.</p>
<p>OP, I think you are missing the point several posters are making. The appearance of lying or of not telling the full truth on an application can come back, years later, to bite your son.</p>
<p>You really can’t say that you know what your child’s employment plans or future schooling plans, or even what his eventual college major will be. Someday he might end up wanting a law degree, or wanting a security clearance, or deciding to apply to medical school.</p>
<p>Sally’s and LurkerDad’s points are that playing semantic games or parsing the technicalities of the language of the application questions to avoid divulging a past indiscretion may not be the best idea when considering the long term consequences of lying by ommission.</p>
<p>Thank you, sallyawp and TXArtemis for the law school and bar exam points. I just read several blogs by law school admissions persons, one from Michigan, and one from Yale. They strongly stated that it is best to divulge EVERYTHING, because eventually when taking the bar exam it ALL has to be divulged anyway, and the state bars do not look kindly on legal issues that were not divulged on the law school applications (which the states go back and look at).</p>