<p>eastcoastcrazy- I am not missing the point they are making. If you would read my full posts you would note that one minute we want to put his full record on the app and the next we want to listen to the admission counselor and not put it on there (depending on what we find on his record). As as said earlier today, we go back and forth on what we should do. That is why I posted here to begin with…we don’t know what to do!!</p>
<p>Many people here advised to call the college, which his GC did and they told us not to list the DWI charge if it was expunged. They also said we did not need to list the misdemeanor as the app specifically states not to list it since it is a traffic offense. I don’t know who to believe at this point. UGH!!</p>
<p>I can also tell you with 100% certainty that my child will never want to be a lawyer or doctor. Just way too much work involved with that and I know my child very well. He will flat out tell you he does not want to go to school forever (and plus we/he cannot afford it). Employment…that is another story none of us know for sure where we will be in 5, 10, 15 years with our jobs. Job security is not what it used to be. I know the misdemeanor can cause problems with potential jobs not to mention the DWI charge if it remains out there in cyberspace. I do know my employer only does background checks 10 years back. So at some point maybe it will no longer show up - we can only hope!!</p>
<p>He has become very discouraged and fears he will never get into one of his favorites if he puts it on there. It hurts to see him work so hard and still have to struggle over this. He has no clue (even as much as I tell him) that this will effect him forever. He has already gone way above and beyond to make amends for the damage he caused. He has made major changes in himself and I want to see him rewarded at some point.</p>
<p>Thanks for all of your input, we are going to have to make a big decision in a few weeks and I hope we make the right one.</p>
<p>Just to reiterate, you don’t report everything you’ve been charged with or arrested for, you only report things you either plead to or were convicted of. That point seems to be getting lost with some posters.</p>
<p>Infact, I’m not even sure any firm is legally allowed to ask you to list all of your arrests, regardless of plea or conviction. Does anyone know for sure?</p>
<p>Vladenschlutte - I totally see what you are saying, but if we do not list the DWI charge and it comes up somewhere down the road (admissions to grad school maybe) they will think he was lying about it or trying to be dishonest. I do not want that to happen.</p>
<p>The worry over this is really making me physically sick. I have no clue which way to go. I feel I need to guide him through this process (with the help of his GC) and this situation is not a common one at his current school so we do not know what to do. We are looking to the college to guide us - but some on this board feel we should not follow what they are telling us!! I also worry if we list the DWI he will not be able to get federal financial aide. </p>
<p>UGH!!! I am so aware that my child is not perfect, but he deserves an education. He wants to go to a decent school so badly. I worry we will make the wrong decision and ruin his chances.</p>
<p>We already have talked to our attorney. He said the DWI charge has been expunged in the eyes of the law. He has filed the paperwork with every agency he can. That still will not guarantee that some criminal background check company wont have an old report of his record and the charge could show up. He told us to beware of that. He said if it happens we need to contact that company and provide the expungement paperwork so it can be removed.</p>
<p>At least we do not have to worry about a mug shot or fingerprints as they were never taken. Our local paper runs the “lock up” every week, my son never appeared. He was injured in the accident and spent time in the hospital. He was never physically arrested only charged.</p>
<p>If the school said not to list it, and the attorney said not to list it, I wouldn’t list it. I might ask your attorney to send you a letter expressing his opinion that you shouldn’t have to list an expunged charge anywhere, and I’d keep that letter.</p>
<p>How would a grad school learn of the issue? By asking on the grad school app. As with law schools, not all grad schools will ask. Actually, it’s pretty unique that NC asks that detailed question. There’s a UNC study referring to some of this: bottom line, get it cleared now (which it seems you are dogging or have already been told is done.) Check it every year.</p>
<p>Someone said, oh, they’ll ask for your college app when you apply higher- and see you told two different tales- how? How long does the Common App hold onto copies? No one asked me or DH for a copy of the college app, in our day. My kids didn’t save copies. As for employment, it’s a traffic record, right? At 16.</p>
<p>The point is:
-Appalachian State and whatever other school you asked, said, in effect, “no issue, we are not concerned about a traffic issue, no need to report.”
-if and when he applies to grad school, he accurately reports per whatever they ask and their interpretations of their wording. If, for any reason under the sun, the grad program says, well, you didn’t tell it in your college app, you have an explanation, from the college: “no issue, we are not concerned about a traffic issue, no need to report.”</p>
<p>Yes, get an atty letter- not stating the initial charge, just the final results. Hang on to it. I’ll find that UNC document.</p>
<p>It’s been really unclear in this topic, and I had assumed that he was NOT convicted of or plead to a DWI, but is that actually the case. Did he plea to a DWI or was he convicted of one?</p>
<p>Vladenschlutte - he was only charged with DWI - he plead guilty to reckless driving. </p>
<p>I will work on getting a letter from our attorney reflecting his opinion. I am not sure how quickly an expunction will show up in the actual records. I am sure humans have to input these court orders and dealing with government agencies I am not sure how quick it will actually be entered. I am going to check every record I can find before he submits any applications.</p>
<p>Besides worrying about this we have to worry about test scores (ACT). We are still touring some local schools and have one coming up this weekend. Hopefully, that will take our minds off this for a bit!!</p>
<p>It may be just semantics here, but a couple of times the Op (referring to the DUI charge) has said the law “didn’t prove” it. I know this informal forum is not the same as an explanation to the school, but using that phrase sounds to my ear like a guilty person that knows they slipped something past the authorities. Actually, since the charge didn’t go to court, they didn’t have to prove it- because it was dropped.</p>
<p>Imo saying the charge was dropped or that they didn’t pursue it sounds much nicer.</p>
<p>Hat - That was my original question in my first post. Does “any other arrangement” mean something that has been expunged? He did accept responsibility for a crime, but not the alleged one. He plead guilty to something different. Also the “charge” was not dismissed, it was expunged. There is a difference according to our attorney.</p>
<p>younghoss - the reason the original charge was “not proven” is that they claim he was driving drunk and the blood test never was returned from the state lab stating that was true. He said he did drink something he thought was non-alcoholic at a party, but he had never drank alcohol before and did not know if it was or not. So none of us really know if he had been drinking. He did not have any of the classic sings of being drunk except for the bad accident and that he was coming from a party. Was possible he was, yes it is, but we just do not know for sure. </p>
<p>We would never put that on the application. Probably would just list the charge, date of accident with some brief details and what he plead guilty to. We would also list the charge has since been expunged and if we have space we would list how this has changed his life for the better.</p>
<p>for the purpose of post 51, I don’t care if student had no alcohol, or looked like Otis the drunk from Mayberry. Am I such a poor writer? The point of post 51 only referred to the phrasing the OP has used. I made no reference to the validity of the charge in post 51. There is no reason to explain that cops lacked evidence about a DUI. </p>
<p>Post 51 only referenced the choice of wording the Op has used here a couple of times. I offer that the phrase the “charge was not proven” makes the student sound guilty. For the purposes of post 51, I don’t care why it wasn’t proven. Why it was unproven makes no difference whatsoever(for post 51).
I ask 48 to please re-read my post 51.</p>
<p>younghoss - I am not going to debate this with you. Maybe I should not have written that on this board (even though it it is a fact of the situation). We would never write that on a college application as I have already said. Splitting hairs over the way I worded something on a message board is crazy. Poor writer? No, I would not say that, maybe condescending attitude would be better. I am not as stupid as you may think. </p>
<p>I appreciate all of the help we have received here, but I think we are going to stay away for a bit and focus on the upcoming ACT scores and then go from there. The added stress is not helping our situation. We have lived through every parents nightmare and need to figure out the best way to handle this on our own. We are thankful we have a son still here to help get into college.</p>
<p>This thread sent me to a couple of admissions blogs, one of which is “Bad Idea Jeans: Setting Your Pants on Fire”, which is connected to Yale Law School Admissions. I know this (law school) isn’t exactly applicable to the student in question, but I think the points raised in the blog are something to think about.</p>
<p>"The point is, we all have skeletons in our closet, and when it comes to law school… a bone or two will come flying out sooner or later. It’s in your interest to have it be sooner… Here are a few things to consider:</p>
<ol>
<li>If you need to consult an attorney about whether or not to disclose something, then you probably need to disclose it (despite what your attorney tells you)…</li>
</ol>
<p>One last thing. I’ve read close to 10,000 files at this point, and to be honest, I’ve seen very few transgressions That would ipso facto disqualify someone from admission… So set yourself free, tell the truth."</p>
<p>Honestly, I think he should admit the dwi… And then give the ******** reasons you were giving us (“trying to fit in with older friends”? Did you take that one right out of his excuse book?) and hope the college looks beyond it.</p>