criteria for evaluating boarding schools

Prep School Admissions
1

<p>as some of you know, my younger son is looking at boarding schools. he would be applying next january for 9th grade.</p>

<p>I am trying to help him narrow the field by setting some criteria by which to gauge the different schools.</p>

<p>Clearly academics are important and so is a good average SAT score -- but what about these criteria:</p>

<p>Size of school: what is good and what is bad about the small, medium and large schools? do kids who attend smaller schools (less than 200) like it for all four years -- or does it become too closed in and limited? do the big schools overwhelm the younger kids? How do you decide which size is the best fit for your child?</p>

<p>% boarding students: I can see why, if your student is boarding, that a high percentage of boarding students is important. What would be considered a high percentage? At what point are there too many day students? Would 70% be a good number for the amount boarding -- or would it be better if it were more?</p>

<p>Class offerings -- some of the schools are very limited in what classes you can take and some have tons. since the kids can only take just so many classes -- and many of those are already set in stone (English I, algebra II, etc) what is a good selection? i would think that the huge number of classes could overwhelm a kid or get him off-track. I can see that it would be important that the school offer a number of AP's (the sciences, calculus, lit and lang, foreign language and the histories) but I am wondering what a decent offering would be. the size of the school obviously affects the number of classes that can be offered -- so what are the pros and cons here?</p>

<p>College placement: some schools send tons to Ivies and some have never sent any. how do you tell if the BS will prepare your child (unhooked) to at least have a shot at a top school/Ivy? i am not saying that it should be an automatic admit -- but if a school has never sent a student to a top school, that makes me think that students applying from that school would not be a competitive applicant not matter how well they did at the BS. If a school has at least admitted a few (3-4) in the past 5 years to an Ivy or stanford, would that tell you that a kid from that school at least had a chance? Our local public sends kids to the Ivys every year.</p>

<p>starting in 9th grade: is it important the the school start in 9th grade and not earlier? My son is concerned about going to school where friendships are already started. also -- is it better to go to a school that admits fewer 10th, 11th and 12th grade students so the class pretty much stays the same all four years?</p>

<p>sorry for all the questions -- we have been looking and talking and thinking. Until we know his SSAT scores, we really can't begin an actual list, but we have viewbooks coming from all kinds of different schools and I am trying to see what the best way to evaluate them would be and why.</p>

<p>thanks!</p>

2

<p>you need to log on to boardingschoolreview & get in touch with the Ten Schools Association. Google top US boarding schools.Then,If you son scores Lower than 85 percentile on the SSAT then go to a broader field.Sign him up with a university program to take the SAT early just to get benchmark.This thread is full of kids and parents freaking out about being in the top 2% of students in the boarding school universe.Your question is probably not appropriate for this group until farther down the line. Sorry</p>

3

<p>I have a lot of thoughts on this, being somewhat of an expert :), but don't have a lot of time right now, so I'll have to come back.</p>

<p>One thing that I regard as CRUCIAL is at least 75% boarding- maybe 70% at the lowest. This leads to a much greater sense of community and the school doesn't empty out on the weekends. We had a brief tenure at a school with only 30% boarders, and there was lots of opportunity for wild off campus parties at houses without parents home, lots more infiltration of drugs/alcohol onto campus and totally empty dorms some weekends. The school should be really committed to maintaining the BOARDING aspect of the school.</p>

<p>I don't get as hung up on average SAT scores or SSATs. This can sway easily due to how many internationals are at the school. I also don't get hung up on Ivy placements. My daughter had an amazing experience for 2 years at Interlochen Arts Academy, with really strong academics and almost no one shooting for an Ivy. Of course, these were talented young artists, for the most part, but it still had strong academics and she got 5s on her AP exams.</p>

<p>More important than WHAT schools the kids go to is how strong the college counseling department is and how good they are at finding the right match for the kid. How connected are the counselors with admissions folks at ALL ranges of colleges. </p>

<p>This is hard to tell- but you want to figure out what the moral compass of the school is. Is discipline applied consistently? Do the kids respect each other? Does this respect and consideration start at the Headmaster level? Are there faculty members that have been a part of the community for 20-30 years? If so, you want to meet them and find out what they think defines the school community. At Blair, the faculty homes are open to students and kids can drop in, have a snack and discuss personal issues or current events.
If there was an issue in the community- such as a drug bust involving several kids or a tragedy such as the death of a student or faculty member, it was handled honestly and with compassion.</p>

<p>Got to go.
More thoughts later.</p>

4

<p>Actually I would disagree. Please scan tons of posts on this forum and you will get answers to most of your questions, probably not all in one place, but you will get most of them.</p>

<p>There is no substitute to a school visit, on paper it is hard to say if your child will fell more conformable in a big or a small school. Its only after you have had a chance to see a few of them that they you can "start" to get some ideas; I know in our case it did help a lot.</p>

<p>Yes to do start on SSATs early, because they do make a difference and it will help you target they type of schools better.</p>

<p>Good luck</p>

5

<p>PS my response was to Francis's post... not to negate anything MotherofWild child has just said (she beat me to it)</p>

6

<p>Francis, what are you talking about?</p>

7

<p>"I don't get as hung up on average SAT scores or SSATs. This can sway easily due to how many internationals are at the school."
that's only true at lower tier BS where they take unqualified internationals to meet budget (u know ...international pays full tuition)
at top BS, internationals, namely those from hong kong, korea and japan tend to make up the group of highest SAT scorers</p>

<p>also, almost all top BS are 90% boarding, AESDCH lawrenceville MX Groton....the only exception is milton</p>

8

<p>bearcats- this parent is not only looking at the very top tier schools. There are plenty of wonderful schools below the top 10, and many take internationals who are perfectly qualified, but may have lower English SSAT and SAT scores. Also, there are lots of schools where you do have to look at the percentage of boarders- Peddie is not 90%, for one. Neither is Hill.</p>

9

<p>In my quest to help my son with BS choices, I also weighed many of the factors you mention. They're easy for us, as parents, to grasp. I even put a spreadsheet together that compiled these factors.</p>

<p>Then the viewbooks and other materials started to come in and all that went out the window. In the end, the visits made all the difference. And the numbers, well, they say something but you really can't use numbers to make fine distinctions between schools. The numbers are a blunt instrument that can sort schools roughly into groups.</p>

<p>Even my son started out with the objective criteria analysis, looking to avoid dress codes and Saturday classes as best he could. But by the time he sunk his teeth into the course guides -- each of which tell their own nonquantifiable story about what the schools might do to spark some passion within your child -- he either forgot or didn't care about his original lists (well, except for the co-ed only requirement he established).</p>

<p>But, as parents, it's difficult for us to say that one school "feels" better than another. That's going to be his or her call. The kids are the ones who have to live there. It has to be a place where they feel both comfortable and challenged. Still, we go with what we do know: the things that you and I have to weigh.</p>

<p>As parents we have a duty to help expose our children to the environments that are the best suited for our children. We see things in them that they don't see or might not like to recognize. Sometimes it means finding a school that "fits" your child. In other instances it may mean finding a school that will expose your child to altogether new experiences. (Ex.: Some parents may see a Harkness table and know that their introverted child will find it too daunting, while other parents will decide that that's exactly what will make their introverted child blossom. And there's no one right answer except that the parents probably know what's best in each case.)</p>

<p>I've found that it's been more useful to get to know the schools and people who are connected to them and decide which ones have elements of the environment that will suit your child's learning style and his social skill set and other interests. It's like buying a home...there are lots of homes that have lots of the things you're looking for, but probably no home that's got it all.</p>

<p>From there, I think it's wise to let go. I've been pleasantly surprised at how my son has weighed various factors all on his own. And even though he ended up disliking a couple schools that I had figured as being good fits, I think he taught me a few things in the process and, now, I think the "sieve" he used -- while all the time in dialogue with us -- was much better than any I could have developed on a spreadsheet.</p>

<p>Just as another example, you seem to suggest a boarding percentage of 70% as the minimum. That would exclude Lawrenceville. But Lawrenceville has a very strong boarding-oriented community, with day students spending lots of weekend time on campus. And there are benefits to having a good critical mass of day students if the school is far away...with your child having a greater likelihood of getting some home-cooked meals and attention from a day student family -- again, if that's part of the environment you see working best for your child's particular needs/style.</p>

<p>It's a tough balancing act and in the end it's like any of life's really big decisions -- choosing a life partner, buying a house, changing jobs, to name a few -- you really have to go with your "gut" feelings. It has to feel right...and it has to feel at least as right for your child as it does for you.</p>

<p>I hope this helps...and doesn't come across as evasive.</p>

10

<p>Francis -- really, read a few of my posts. I am far from a moderator. I am interested in college admissions, homeschooling (my oldest is homeschooled) and have gotten tons of great advice (and given some). $2 a post? I would have like 5,000 posts if that were the case!!!! As far as changing the direction -- if you aren't interested in the topic, don't reply! I am honestly looking for information because we live in Colorado and vists to BS will be very, very difficult. Boarding school is completely foreign to me -- as my mother said "Boarding school is only for kids whose parents don't want them". We don't know anyone who goes to a boarding school, so I don't have anyone else to ask my questions of.</p>

<p>Mom and Ali -- thanks for the advice, I will do some more reading of past posts. </p>

<p>Francis -- I disagree about not being able to get advice except for the top 2%. Advice can be applied in many different situations.</p>

11

<p>That is why i gave you two of the best resources to learn about BS.I don't think I will have time to go back over 2 years and 783 posts that you logged .Also, I will not be able to engage you as a matter of respect to the 2007 applicants.sorry</p>

12

<p>D'yer -- thanks, good thoughts. I just have so little to go on. He did a visit at the local boarding school (Fountain Valley School) and loved it (was ready to enroll that day). There aren't really any other boarding schools in the area (the next closest is about an 8 hour car ride away).</p>

<p>due to finances, he may apply without ever having visited a school -- we just won't have a choice in the matter. </p>

<p>My thought is that if we can narrow it down to a few, we might be able to arrange a visit or two -- but it would have to be a school where he had a good chance for admission and a good chance for financial aid. </p>

<p>We requested view books and info packets from a huge list of schools -- so I guess I will let him study those and see which ones spark his interest.</p>

13

<p>I'll agree that there seems to be an overemphasis on the top-10 (or however many you want to count) HYP placement schools on this board. Perhaps it is the level of awareness (and therefore interest) of these schools?</p>

<p>I'll give hsmomstef credit for putting FIT as her primary interest. She has spelled out many of her concerns (note that HYP placement didn't seem to come out #1, although a concern for college placement is always a necessity). </p>

<p>MOWC points out probably the most important factor for those of you interested in college placement - the college counseling department. Yes, I'm sure AESD et. al have wonderful people with lots of connections. However, they can get only a limited number of people placed at these schools. And for the bottom 1/2 of students at those top schools, the "magic" of graduating from AESD will have no bearing on your admissions to a top school as the top 1/2 of the students have those slots lined up. </p>

<p>Now if you are in the top part of the graduating class at a 2nd or 3rd tier school, your school counselors will be more likely to use their influence on your behalf when push comes to shove. And because all their clients aren't hung up on HYPSM admission, the kids who truly are Ivy League material, will get the attention that they deserve.</p>

<p>And lets face it, as much as an Ivy League sheepskin looks good on a wall, Ivy League college experiences are not right for everyone. I think many music and arts students would be far better off elsewhere, for example.</p>

<p>And yes, Francis, I am trying to steer the direction of this board, but I'm not a moderator and neither to my knowledge are any of the regular posting parents around here. None of us work for CC, nor are we trying to trying to drive the conversation to a vanilla cake, as you would put it. We are being discreet, a mature way of communicating politely not only by what we say, but often by what we don't say. I don't feel the need to have everything said in a definitive way, as there is much gray area that is not well understood about school admissions, as much as people want to believe they know. </p>

<p>I just bring my own personal experience through my own daughter's journey last year (she now attends a school not even mentioned on this board, but is achieving HER goals, not what the herd thinks is the BEST thing). And I know she would not be as happy at AESD, although I have good reason to believe that she may have impressed one top school coach enough this season to get her admitted despite test scores way below their average. I don't think she would be as happy and therefore not nearly as productive in that environment.</p>

<p>I don't expect most students (and often not even their parents) to be aware of what they are getting into at top boarding schools. While someone may well be the top student where they are - a comfortable position, everything changes when everyone around you is as bright (or even brighter) than you. Not everyone reacts optimially to that situation. </p>

<p>One last unrelated thing about the boarding percentages - even when the schools are mostly boarders, often those boarders go home on weekends, leaving a very empty campus because many of them live within 2 hours of campus. If an active weekend lifestyle is important to you (some kids would rather chill out on Sundays), find out what types of activities are sponsored on (or off) campus on typical weekends and how many teachers are around and participate in the students' lives during the weekends. I mention this because where there are idle kids with little adult interaction, much opportunity exists for trouble.</p>

14

<p>"And for the bottom 1/2 of students at those top schools, the "magic" of graduating from AESD will have no bearing on your admissions to a top school as the top 1/2 of the students have those slots lined up. "</p>

<p>disagreed, completely</p>

<p>at hotchkiss, and more so at AESD, the top 30 % goes to ivies, the next 50% goes to top 30 colleges per US news and top LACs</p>

<p>the last 20%s are usually recruited athletes or legacies who dont care at all who would end up at top colleges anyway</p>

<p>"I have good reason to believe that she may have impressed one top school coach enough this season to get her admitted despite test scores way below their average"</p>

<p>you would be surprised by the insignificance of coaches at top BS in the game of admissions except for football, guys hockey and Lax who actually carry much weight</p>

15

<p>Sounds like this coming summer is time for the family trip to New England! This is the blind leading the blind -- and I'll appreciate anyone who knows better correcting me on this -- but the cost of a trip to visit schools pales in comparison to the amount you'll spend overall. And when you consider that it's more than just an economic investment but perhaps the best way to make a truly informed decision about the right place to send your child, a trip to the schools is a solid investment. I mean...what if you both make the "wrong" choice but save on the cost of one trip?</p>

<p>Then again, maybe a New England school isn't what you're zeroing in on. Because there will be several trips each year that you'll have to pay for...on top of the tuition, etc. that you'll be paying (even with a generous aid package). And if it's not feasible now, traveling to/from school might be a stretch later.</p>

<p>I, too, am far away from New England. The credit cards got some exercise this fall with a couple trips up there. Here's the good news: because you're starting early you'll be able to set up a decent itinerary. I started making appointments in October and had to take what was left...meaning that the rental car had to go through a few oil changes by the time I was done. I had mapped out a very efficient circuit before I picked up the phone...and by the time I was done calling for appointments I had an itinerary that would put Al Gore in a straitjacket. There were a few roads where the state troopers would wave at us because we had become regulars.</p>

<p>Not that 2-3 hours at a school makes you an expert...but it will make you a Nobel laureate compared to someone who's divining what's best from 8 states and two continental divides away.</p>

<p>I would urge you to at the very least incorporate school visits into your summer itinerary (although you miss out on catching what the atmosphere is like when school's in session, it beats a viewbook-only experience).</p>

<p>I wouldn't dream of giving up my son four years earlier than I had planned...so you can bet that the place he spends most of the next four years had better be pretty darn awesome...and it's up to us, as parents, to be as sure of that as possible (and give our kids as much information as possible so THEY can be sure they're making the right choice).</p>

<p>Well, that's my plug. I hope I don't sprain an ankle coming down from a high horse. But I mean that as advice that I myself took and I think it served me well. Looking back (from still inside the tunnel), I can't even imagine what I was thinking when I tried to line up alum interviews and TSAO travel interviews as a way to save a few bucks traveling.</p>

<p>And, as a final note, my son and I had a couple really awesome road trips and some great times together I won't soon forget -- worth the price right there even if he gets shut out by the admissions offices.</p>

16

<p>A couple of points I'd like to make:</p>

<p>Don't be intimidated. I came out of a strong middle school and never struggled in the least here at SPS. I work hard but find it possible to do very well.</p>

<p>On a final note, I love that SPS is 100% boarding. The teacher/student/teachers family community is complete and strong.</p>

<p>About school visits, I think it's essential to go when school is in session for a true impression. Ideally, spend a full day and an overnight if possible. </p>

<p>One of the key things overnights taught me was how much freedom some schools gave and how much restrictive structure others had. The lights out, strict study hour, computers off schools would have made me crazy.</p>

17

<p>
[quote]
"And for the bottom 1/2 of students at those top schools, the "magic" of graduating from AESD will have no bearing on your admissions to a top school as the top 1/2 of the students have those slots lined up. "</p>

<p>disagreed, completely</p>

<p>at hotchkiss, and more so at AESD, the top 30 % goes to ivies, the next 50% goes to top 30 colleges per US news and top LACs</p>

<p>the last 20%s are usually recruited athletes or legacies who dont care at all who would end up at top colleges anyway

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I'm not saying that the graduates won't go to great schools, but that the high school they attended will have no bearing on their admissions to those schools. Basically, these kids will get into a great school despite the college placement efforts on their behalf. </p>

<p>They are smart, but don't rank high enough to qualify for the X number of slots that their school gets at Y Ivy League school. Lets face it, Ivy League schools could fill their freshman classes with top 10 prep school graduates, but cap those admissions in the interest of having diversity of background. </p>

<p>Perhaps at a lower school, they would have been a top 5 ranked graduate where they could have gotten that particular Ivy League look that didn't get at the top ranked school.</p>

<p>
[quote]
the last 20%s are usually recruited athletes or legacies who dont care at all who would end up at top colleges anyway

[/quote]
Please, not all legacies and athletes are in the bottom 20% of their class. Case in point, one of Andover's female goalies last year is at Yale this year. I do happen to have her acquaintence and she is quite bright, even by Andover standards, thank you.</p>

<p>
[quote]
"I have good reason to believe that she may have impressed one top school coach enough this season to get her admitted despite test scores way below their average"</p>

<p>you would be surprised by the insignificance of coaches at top BS in the game of admissions except for football, guys hockey and Lax who actually carry much weight

[/quote]

You'd be surprised that in hockey it is harder to find qualified solid girl hockey players than guys. USA Hockey statistics show that there is only 1 female hockey player for every 10 male hockey players under 18. Yet there are almost as many girls varsity hockey programs as guys. And trust me, there is a HUGE talent dropoff from the first line to the bottom line of every girls prep hockey team. So much that many teams rarely play their 3rd lines of their girls squad in close games for fear of a mismatch. This doesn't happen very much with guys programs.</p>

<p>And from first hand experience (My D took the November SSAT, so I had test scores well before Thanksgiving), I talked to a couple of top-10 coaches about my D's scores (before thinking better of it and deciding not to apply because those schools weren't right for my D) who said based upon her grades (3.9 unweighted) and performance at Nationals, that they could get her admitted, despite her scores. Yes, maybe they are talking through their hats, but why would they waste their time? </p>

<p>If you look over on the college side, all of the top LACs and Ivy's have tips for athletes who don't measure up to the AI (for Ivy's) or other standards for the LACs. Usually these are reserved for 4-year impact players. It isn't much different on the BS side.</p>

18

<p>d'yer -- I will do what I can for the visits. I would do anything I could for my kids -- but when I say finances are tight, I am talking AGI under $30,000 -- no credit cards and both cars are over 20 years old. </p>

<p>He is looking at a local school, one in Arizona, one in Iowa, one in Wisconsin a couple in california and several on the east coast. We could do the arizona one (can drive there) but will have to work on doing just one other (more would be out of the question) and no relatives or friends in any of those areas, either.</p>

<p>FA will have to be awesome or he wouldn't be able to go -- so that is a major factor. My older son is going to a semester boarding program that costs $18,000 and when we filed the SSP our contribution was $1500 -- so that kind of aid needs to be available.</p>

<p>I am seeing the importance of the visits -- but I will need to know that it is an excellent fit and the FA would be there before I could spend the money on a visit.</p>

<p>My two kids are very different -- oldest is internally motivated and competitive only with himself. younger son (the one who wants to go to boarding school) is externally motivated -- he does best when he is in the top 25% and has a chance at being top 10%. I am really not thinking Ivy for him, but I don't want to sink his chances before he even starts.</p>

<p>I have looked at the Exeter and Andover info (older son was interested) and I don't see him fitting in. He wouldn't be in the top 25%, too large for him I think and just too many choices. </p>

<p>right now his college choices are (take with a grain of salt -- he has been listening to his brother): colorado college, oberlin, st. john's in santa fe, brown, UC Boulder, Deep Springs, Ohio State Honors Tutorial.</p>

<p>He prides himself on being an individual, working hard and right now his passion is for the environment and social justice (maybe a little influence by me and his brother -- I have a minor in sustainability and his brother in passionate about social justice).</p>

19

<p>If you look closely at your son's list you might see the humanities/harkness pattern emerge--St. John's/Oberlin/Deep Springs are all in the great tradition of Chicago western Civ. If he wants to play that league he might also look at Reed, Swarthmore, Directed Studies at Yale and the New collegiate division at Chicago. I don't see why he would not aspire to go to Exeter or St. Paul's, both of which have strong humanities Don't worry about the money. If he gets in he'll get money.</p>

20

<p>"You'd be surprised that in hockey it is harder to find qualified solid girl hockey players than guys. USA Hockey statistics show that there is only 1 female hockey player for every 10 male hockey players under 18. Yet there are almost as many girls varsity hockey programs as guys. And trust me, there is a HUGE talent dropoff from the first line to the bottom line of every girls prep hockey team. So much that many teams rarely play their 3rd lines of their girls squad in close games for fear of a mismatch. This doesn't happen very much with guys programs."</p>

<p>Yes..except that boys hockey is weighted so much more than girls hockey. MY dorm fac is an admission officer and he said only Football, Boys hockey and Boys Lax coaches get free passes to get as many 12th grade players and PGs they want. Other coaches dont have much say... and yes, they do try to get as many players to apply because they know that most of them probably wont make it pass the admission office ...And this makes sense too becoz really .... we dont care much about girls hockey here.. but like half the school go cheer for the football and boys hockey team.. we recruited 2 USA youth olympic players this year.....</p>