I think he should take the free education offered by Villanova and go there. It’s worth $233,080 (tuition + room & board for 4 yr), not including fees like student health fees, books, & spending money.
That’s over $200,000 of free money. That’s like somebody buying you a free house.
If he lives on campus nearby it is a wholly different exoerience and could just see you guys in major breaks. Since he’s interested in grad/Med school, I’d encourage saving the money for that. If he’s a big fish in small pond, he can get great research opportunities and get to know profs for great recommendations too!
“If he lives on campus nearby it is a wholly different experience…”
A very good point. Living on campus puts a student into an entirely different world. Even if the campus is only 5 miles from the parents home it is still an adventure. Part of the undergraduate experience IMHO is the experience of the student living a bit on his or her own and starting to separate from the parents.
@LurkerDad2, there are many viable career paths that include both natural science and CS; my son is interested in biotechnology (specifically bioinformatics) and there is a lot of opportunity for students who like coding as well as chem and bio. He is planning to major in CS and possibly minor in biology or biochemistry, and look for applicable research in biotechnology. His first love is coding so he’s aware that he may end up doing something unrelated to biotechnology (game design, cybersecurity, etc), but he wants the option available. During his college visits he’s met CS professors from different schools who have been able to list multiple ongoing CS research projects that have a natural science component. One even talked about research that combines cybersecurity with biotechnology.
If I were in your situation, all else being equal I’d go with Villanova. If my S truly had no strong preference among the acceptances and all were affordable and were a fit academically and socially, I’d encourage him to go with the full ride.
Good luck!
@traveler98 - yes…your son sounds similar in that regard to mine, and I know he’s seeking out those profs that are doing research that combines those fields. Where is your son looking?
@LurkerDad2, he’s interested in UT Dallas, U Tulsa, WPI, MIT, and UT Austin. At the moment UT Dallas is his top choice because he’s likely NMF and they have a wonderful honors program with almost a full ride automatic for NMF. U Tulsa was the school with the cybersecurity/biotechnology intersection research, which sounded very cool. We’re in Texas, and the allure of auto admit (UT and UTD) is strong.
Also I would look at the curriculums for the school…Brown is known for having an unstructured curriculum…I personally would not do well in that. At Case Western, my major (Electrical Engineering) had a template for all 4 years and I just substituted in electives.
If he is not suuuuuuper into Brown or ND, I would choose from the others because of cost.
If he wants to be pre-med and do CS, he doesn’t need to double major in Bio, but just take the pre-requisite classes (bio, chem, physics, org chem, etc)
Any plans to study abroad (for a semester or full year)? If so, I’d look at the programs to see if one of the schools stands out. Most schools have exchange programs where you pay your home school’s tuition and where all scholarships and other aid apply. If Nova and ND for example offer exchanges with the same universities, you’d end up paying ND tuition to go abroad to the same school that would have been close to free if he had gone to Nova.
Congrats to your son on these fine options. You should be proud.
Honestly, I would tell my son that this is the first of many really big decisions in his life, and he will learn something important about himself in making it. Assure him that he’s going to make a lot of mistakes in life (I never seem to run out), so he should make his best decision, and if it turns out wrong, that will be one for his lifetime list of mistakes, and it will be OK anyway.
I would play a little devil’s advocate for each school, but I wouldn’t come even close to undue influence. He’s doing his due diligence and in the end he has to ask himself
“Which school will best help me become the person I want to be?”
If he is a pretty independent kind of person, I would recommend going to the one that is the farthest away from home. We have a large country and it is good to get to know other areas and other local issues.
Excellent options. First let me agree with @jonri that if grad school == PhD program, then if the kid is really good and gets into a very good program, financial aid in the form of fellowships and assistantships would cover 100% of need. That’s also what I told my kids: if you don’t get full funding, don’t take the PhD option.
As I look at this, there’s a fairly large difference among the colleges in GENERAL name recognition, but these are all very credible colleges. If you can find a way to get the kid through all of these colleges with the combination of financial aid, your college savings plan, and your current income flow, then don’t let the decision be guided by cost considerations. You may have to pay more out of pocket, but if your son gets through college without debt (for him or for you), then go with the college that most appeals to him. If that appeal is location and atmosphere as much as the academic programs, then so be it (again, assuming you have neutralized the cost as I mentioned above). With our kids, we had about 35-40% of the costs “in the bank,” and covered the rest through our current income. Both graduated without debt.
I like all of these colleges for different reasons, but for my kids it would have been UR, Brown, and ND – over Nova and CWRU. But deciding factors might have been their desire to live in cities (for my son, “major league city” [as in professional sports]; for my daughter “real city” [as in urban landscape and culture], and so NOVA wouldn’t have been out of consideration.
The kids we know who have attended Villanova liked it, but felt the student body was way too homogeneous. They weren’t referring specifically to ethnicity (though that was also a factor, as expressed by their nickname 'Vanillanova"), but more attitude and mindset tied in with a common socioeconomic background. Frankly, I’ve heard the same complaint about ND. Does he fit with the prevailing culture at Nova? Would he mind a lack of diversity?
To add to my previous comment, I would have a preference for Brown if the decision were mine. (1) There is some lifetime career cred to attending an Ivy (but also ND for different reasons); (2) I know that Brown is strong in CS (a niece of mine graduated from Brown in CS and now has a major position at Microsoft, which recruits Brown CS graduates); (3) I like Providence, which while not a major city is within reach of Boston (1 hr) and NYC (2-3 hrs); my daughter attended Rhode Island School of Design, which is also in Providence.
Step 1 – sit down with the kid and narrow it down to the two top choices (without considering the cost). Identify the reasons why the top two are the top two.
Step 2 – discuss the cost difference between the top two. Is the cost differential justified? What implications would the differential have on the family and kid’s future.
If the final two are ND/Brown and Nova the cost difference is $275k. Is the family really completey indifferent to that delta? Can the kid really explain the things that would make the expensive school so much better than the deal school?
@jonri: Most people don’t get graduate degrees, but I daresay that a large chunk of the people on CC (who are kids or have kids who have the stats to aspire for the top tier schools) will get graduate degrees. And yes, any PhD worth going to will be funded. They’re also d___ hard to get in to. Many terminal Masters degrees aren’t as difficult to enter but would still yield benefits (but would cost money). And many people get a Masters to switch careers or focus. So no, a CS major really has no rationale to pay for a CS Masters, but down a road, a good MBA or other Masters may make sense. Saved up money is optionality for investing in more education (or starting a business, buying a house, etc.) in the future
As for the decision, $280K is real money to me, but I don’t know your financial situation. For that matter, $140K is real money to me. If he’s that indifferent about school choice, I wouldn’t spend that money if that was my money. I certainly am not indifferent to having $280K/$140K more or spending it. And yes, it’s not even certain that being treated as a star at Villanova is worse than being among the masses elsewhere. Say you have $280K to spend total. Would your son rather take the $280K/$140K for grad school/business startup/house (or all three, actually; $280K is enough for a Masters, down payment on a house, and still have enough left over for seed money for a business).
BTW, you can withdraw from a 529 if he takes a scholarship, but there may be tax consequences so you’d want to look in to that. And leaving it in there for a paid Masters/MBA in the future may make sense.
Brown is an excellent school for CS, if that is his likely major. Contrary to what is always said on CC, “it doesn’t matter where you study CS” the caliber of teaching, course structure and content, and level of support can vary greatly among CS programs and Brown is excellent in all of these.
How is Villanova’s computer science major? I don’t think any of those other options is worth $275k more than a Villanova degree, assuming their computer science program is good. There is no lifetime career cred from having a degree from any college. Career success is dependent on what you achieve in your career.
There’s not a bad choice in his list, so I’m sure he’ll be fine wherever he decides to go.
It’s too bad he got the impression that URoch is lacking in friendly interaction. Actually, it’s a school that usually prides itself on having a fairly laidback and collegial atmosphere. D is a student there and she’s been very happy with the slightly nerdy but also nice vibe she’s found there. He would be able to to get involved in research and extra-curriculars at UR, as well, since their approach tends to be very inclusive. The students I know there are almost all involved in both research and at least two or three ECs. The other thing that he might find appealing is the school’s general support of double majoring, something that a LOT of students do (even engineering students). They’re also fairly generous in terms of AP credits (although even a 5 won’t get him out of IntroBio). And when that is combined with the fairly flexible curriculum, he would probably have a fair amount of freedom to follow his interests.
If he is really thinking med school, then pick a less competitive to get into school where he will be ahead of the curve so his grades will shine. At a place like Brown, as well as some others on the list, every student will be coming in is going to be in the top of their high school class. Many of those will be average in this new environment, some below average. Go where the competition is less fierce if grades are important for med school. (For PhD straight As matter less.)
Brown is indeed excellent in CS. It’s hard for me to see it as 6 figures more excellent, however.