CS schools for the B+ Student? Would love some input on our list.

@kab2kab

Really lovely schools you have there. I tried so hard to get my S17 to consider Beloit and Kalamazoo but no go. None are urban though and he’s pretty set on urban or decent college down or close enough to something big. I am going to relook at St Olaf, I can’t recall why it fell off. He has a general position of no religious schools (we’ve leaned to get Seattle U and Santa Clara on the list) but I don’t think it fits that bucket if memory serves.

The K plan is something that could go really well or really wrong for S so is risky.

Ok re-ran Case Western, 47k pre-loan and work study. St Olaf comes in at 45. Both are profile schools, which is not our friend. I didn’t check on the waiver option.

Right now our list sits at 22-42K with Mac being the outlier. Ok 13k if he goes to UWB and lives at home but that’s not an apples to apples comparison lol.

I really don’t want to add anything over that 42 mark. The reality is that 42 today could be 44 at application/admit time between tuition increases and declining merit (increasing stats and applications).

@CADREAMIN agreed on all counts with SCU and we are pretty realistic about that. That said, the in laws live nearby with Silicon Valley ties and are likely to pony up (contribute) a tad for SCU for all the reasons mentioned above. And even if they do not it “may” be worth the differential for all the reasons you cite, (if he got in, which is unlikely) so worth having on the list.

SCU is one where he would likely get some FA years 1&2 and we’d eat that differential years 3&4. ED would be a significant advantage there but is far too risky and it’s too far down on his list at the moment to even consider that.

Have you crossed university of San Francisco off the list? I counted 14 CS faculty members!

It’s been awhile since I ran USFran’s numbers, worth a relook :slight_smile: 14 is a nice size. 4-6 is so small over 4 year.

But, they are one that doesn’t publish scholarships or include in NPC so more digging is needed (and will be harder to quantify as a result) but NPC alone is pretty dismal at 61…

Completely agree. I have a friend with a student in a small program at W&L. Fantastic school, but so small that she has had the same terrible teacher more than once. Frustrating.

@mom2thrie my sister transferred after her freshman year for that exact reason. She was a history major and realized once there she’d have the same professors for all 4 years, and mostly just 1! Of course, that said, my current UVM freshman has had repeating teachers who do full entry series of core classes and given their positions in his major, may have again but he’s got a variety of others to at least mix around them!

We looked at the following numbers which I think for him, are important.

Macalester: Only 5 “named” CS faculty but does not call out CS faculty separately from Math. 69% of classes under 20 students, 99% under 49. Student teacher ratio 10:1

Seattle U: 19 CS faculty. 61% of classes under 20 students, 99% under 49. Student teacher ratio 12:1

Drexel: 29 CS faculty. 57% of classes under 20 students, 91% under 49. Student teacher ratio 12:1. Co-op.

RIT: 37 CS faculty. 49% of classes under 20 students, 95% under 49. Student teacher ratio 12:1. Co-op.

Santa Clara: 20 CS faculty. 44% of classes under 20 students, 99% under 49. Student teacher ratio 11:1. Co-op.

And then we jump into 18:1 + student teacher ratios, all departments are 20+.

But, interestingly, despite having the highest student teacher ratio on his list (22:1), UW Bothell has 98% of their classes 49 or less. However,…no jazz. He’d have to find a community band. Which is his idea and I suppose is an option but not my idea of social engagement with peers.

I took a peek at Dayton. He won’t consider Roman Catholic (versus Jesuit which is pushing for him already). Thank you for the suggestion though!

@eandesmom I am sorry I had to laugh out loud at too warm for him. I was pretty tough love with my kids on these types of things, especially in the areas where they under-performed and thus limited themselves all by themselves. It was the first in many lessons in life called actions (or inactions) meet consequences.

Hmm, may sound a bit weird but since you are WUE, have you thought about checking out Boise State? They have a pretty large CS department with about 20 faculty members. Boise is a small sized city with a good number of prospective tech employers for internships. I think Boise State might be less on the radar nationally, meaning the competition from talented out of staters may be lower than at some of the California schools which are so desirable from a location perspective. Although Idaho has a reputation for being a deep red state, which might put some people off, Boise itself has a mix of people and California transplants are flooding the area.

Drexel is obviously a great choice. I know kids there who sound a lot like the OP’s son.

I had a niece who had a lot of trouble finding a college that fit. She did that after starting college, unfortunately, and she had credits from five different colleges, over six+ years, by the time she finished. But Western Washington is where she finally got traction and focus, not to mention appropriate advising and some maturity. In my mind, that makes it a great place. A totally different person from the OP’s son – she wound up with a BA in creative writing and a BFA in modern dance.

Another safety might be Bellevue College - he can do two years of college at community college tuition with transfer options to UWS, UWB, Western, or the BS in CS offered right at BC. BC has always been a strong UW feeder school, and because of the BS program, there are good CS opportunities. BC’s BSCS used to be a BAT (applied technology) program with required internships. I’m guessing some of the employer relationships created for that will continue, but you should ask.

The total student body is large (BC is the third largest college after UWS and WSU), but class sizes are kept smaller than anything he’d see at UWS. Disabilities services are pretty good as well.

Another safety might be Bellevue College - he can do two years of college at community college tuition with transfer options to UWS, UWB, Western, or the new BS in CS offered right at BC. BC has always been a strong UW feeder school, and because of the BS program, there are good CS opportunities.

The total student body is large (BC is the third largest college after UWS and WSU), but class sizes are kept smaller than anything he’d see at UWS. Disabilities services are pretty good as well.

In terms of four-year in-state schools with smaller class sizes, Western would also be a good bet.

@toomanyteens I think most parents have their version of this. In this instance, there are enough good options that I don’t feel like he is overly restricting himself by not wanting hot or humid. If there was a school we thought was right for him, he’d look at it despite the weather. I’m not feeling like he has missed out at this point in the process.

@Westchestermom it doesn’t sound weird, we do know some kids who go to Boise State. It isn’t terribly popular as a WUE option and the “red” reputation is definitely part of it. I think for me it’s another large® school and since he already has CSU, WWU, UWB, NAE and UW on there all of which he likes and are affordable, we don’t need another.

@JHS that is so lovely to hear about WWU. We are big WWU fans around here and it was my S17’s #2 choice. It’s a solid option for him (with a great price tag) just maybe not the ideal fit. A lot of items in the pro column. I rank it higher on his list than S19 does.

Drexel is his #1 at the moment, but of course that is on paper. He’s not been. And won’t till after application and hopefully acceptance.

@AroundHere we have actually talked about BC/BCC. It’s a stronger CS program (I think) than CC’s closer to us. However it really would be a pain to commute to from where we are and given that, UWB seems a much better option. I have heard good things about their disability services. But the reality is the BS program kids would be the minority in a sea of AA/AS kids I would think He’s not actually short on safeties, just short on safeties that maybe best meet his needs. Western is on our list although the class sizes are actually not as small as you might think. That said, of his mid sized publics, it’s the best of the bunch (as I’d consider UWB small). Teacher ratio isn’t great but it is all faculty which isn’t true of the others, the benefit of a very small grad school.

WWU
Classes under 20 = 34%

Classes 20-49 = 50%

Classes over 50 = 16%

UWBothell blows it away. And you can take some classes at the main campus if you want

Classes under 20 = 15%

Classes 20-49 = 83%

Classes over 50 = 2%

@toomanyteens I think most parents have their version of this. In this instance, there are enough good options that I don’t feel like he is overly restricting himself by not wanting hot or humid. If there was a school we thought was right for him, he’d look at it despite the weather. I’m not feeling like he has missed out at this point in the process.

@Westchestermom it doesn’t sound weird, we do know some kids who go to Boise State. It isn’t terribly popular as a WUE option and the “red” reputation is definitely part of it. I think for me it’s another large® school and since he already has CSU, WWU, UWB, NAE and UW on there all of which he likes and are affordable, we don’t need another.

@JHS that is so lovely to hear about WWU. We are big WWU fans around here and it was my S17’s #2 choice. It’s a solid option for him (with a great price tag) just maybe not the ideal fit. A lot of items in the pro column. I rank it higher on his list than S19 does.

Drexel is his #1 at the moment, but of course that is on paper. He’s not been. And won’t till after application and hopefully acceptance.

@AroundHere we have actually talked about BC/BCC. It’s a stronger CS program (I think) than CC’s closer to us. However it really would be a pain to commute to from where we are and given that, UWB seems a much better option. I have heard good things about their disability services. But the reality is the BS program kids would be the minority in a sea of AA/AS kids I would think He’s not actually short on safeties, just short on safeties that maybe best meet his needs. Western is on our list although the class sizes are actually not as small as you might think. That said, of his mid sized publics, it’s the best of the bunch (as I’d consider UWB small). Teacher ratio isn’t great but it is all faculty which isn’t true of the others, the benefit of a very small grad school.

WWU
Classes under 20 = 34%

Classes 20-49 = 50%

Classes over 50 = 16%

UWBothell blows it away. And you can take some classes at the main campus if you want

Classes under 20 = 15%

Classes 20-49 = 83%

Classes over 50 = 2%

GLITCHY site tonight, doesn’t look like things post and it’s really twice!

In terms of class sizes, try the on line schedules to see what they are in courses for the CS major. Popular majors commonly have larger class sizes.

@ucbalumnus good idea, and you are absolutely right. I may once it gets closer but at this point that may be a higher degree level of effort than I am up for. We do have some time but that’s a good summer project.

The RIT spectrum support program looks good
https://www.rit.edu/studentaffairs/ssp/

Keep in mind that you see his executive functioning deficits in the context of a home he has lived in for many years, a school he is used to, you reminding him to do homework, you making him food, etc.

When they go off to college all of a sudden:
They have to wake themselves up
They have to make sure they eat
They have to go to class at the right time/day
They have to plan/do homework for the right due date
They have to wash their clothes
They have to navigate around campus
They have to make new friends

So many more executive functioning tasks. My friend’s son had undiagnosed spectrum issues and he went off to Kenyon college…didn’t make it til Thanksgiving. The support he got at home masked what he was able to do on his own.

So consider emphasizing the spectrum support

Make sure you find out the average class sizes in your major, not overall. CS at UWS is using Kane Hall even for some upper level classes!

Would like to make a point about larger schools. They are not all equal and there are a few things to think about. I speak from the perspective of a mom whose youngest son (about to graduate with a CS degree- YAY!) ended up going to a ginormous state university (OOS unfortunately for us, but highly ranked for engineering). I never thought that my awkward, disorganized son (ADHD plus slightly on the ASD spectrum) could handle a university with a 30K+ enrollment. A number of factors made the experience very good for him.

Although S’s university is very large, with many, many schools and majors, the engineering and LAS quads are contiguous and compact. My son used APs for many of his liberal arts reqs, so only needed 12 credits total. Three of the classes he was able to take online. Thus most of his classes were in the engineering quad, an easy, FLAT walk from his dorm (and later apartment). Conversely, at one school S considered, the engineering quad was a bus ride away from the LAS quad, where mandatory math classes were held. At another, the engineering building was a 30 min uphill climb from the mandatory frosh dorm. CONVENIENCE is huge for our type of kids. S, like yours, is sensitive to heat and sweat. Racing across campus to class in a lather- better avoided.

Yes, there are a lot of students at my son’s uni. This means a lot of engineering types. S went to a small HS and was pretty unique. Suddenly he had a large pool of his tribe to make friends with. He thrived.

The large size of S’s university means that almost all academic stuff is online-- not just registration, but also homework submissions, assignment grades, syllabi, practice exams, discussion and support boards etc. The uni avoids handwriting and paper. In HS, my son would forget to turn in HW that was in the bottom of his backpack! Academic computerization solved this. Not all colleges are equal in the extent of their adoption of this so check this factor.

My son’s U has a student chapter of the ACM (Association of Computing Machinery). They had a kind of a clubhouse (a classroom) with sofas and computers where people would just hang out in a low key way, coding, chatting, even napping. S met a lot of like-minded people just hanging out there. You can check out which universities have chapters here:
https://www.acm.org/chapters/find-a-chapter
The presence of a chapter is just an indicator that there’s a good concentration of serious CS students at a particular campus. My S became very involved and ended up running a Special Interest Group within the chapter. It developed his speaking skills and was a nice little bullet point for his resume.

Research- The summer after freshman year, S was able to work for a professor who had a small grant. This experience helped him get an internship at a major tech company sophomore year. If a school offers these kinds of opportunities, it’s a nice plus.

Class size concerns: introductory or required CS class sizes are going to be large at many schools due to the popularity of the major. I would be more concerned about what kind of support is offered to students who struggle. Support can include online resources, tutoring, study groups, teaching assistants, discussion groups, class forums etc. Some kids are more comfortable getting help more anonymously than approaching their major professor for a course, especially as freshmen.

Examples: some CS classes at my son’s U have an online forum on the class page where you can post any question to be answered by fellow students or a TA. It’s a critical piece of communication for the course so it’s a very active part of the site. Boise State U (which I realize is not on your list for various reasons) has the Kount Center which offers tutoring for CS classes including some of the tough requirements. Check it out
https://coen.boisestate.edu/cs/computer-science-tutoring-center-cstc/

then see if any of your S’s preferred unis offer a similar option.

In junior and senior electives, even at a large uni, my son was in classes as small as 10, so he was able to forge relationships with professors for recommendations.

I will also check with my S to see if he has any advice for a rising H.S. junior in terms of CS activities/useful resources.