<p>In College</a> admissions dance gets longer, more complicated, Christian Science Monitor reporter Stacy Teicher Khadaroo describes how this year's big class of seniors and greater use of waitlists is complicating the admissions process.</p>
<p>Waitlist Stats:
[quote]
- About one-third of colleges have waiting lists.</p>
<ul>
<li><p>An average of 11 percent of applicants were placed on waiting lists in 2006.</p></li>
<li><p>29 percent of wait-listed students in 2006 were ultimately admitted.
<p>Interesting. I’ve read several of these articles now (and seen the TV news blips) but feel the journalists/media always blame the extra applications kids are sending in and not the pressure colleges feel to have a high selectivity and yield for the purpose of media rankings. If the rankings did not include selectivity and yield would colleges be withholding admissions to kids who did not have the time or $$$ to visit and “demonstrate interest”, or parents who did not have the time or $$$ to visit??? Would they be trying to guess at who is a yes so hard, and not willing to take a chance? I think not. I suppose it would be hard for a journalist to criticize a media dominated rankings system that serves to manipulate the college admissions process if he/she works for the media. I believe it is manipulating admissions and feel that it has undue influence. Yeah, call me cynical (smile). To think that l6 and 17 year old kids have to “demonstrate interest” beyond submitting an appliation and the $$$$, writing numerous essays, doing well in school, being in leadership positions and multiple activities, have a hook, etc - how much do we want from these kids? Seems like they are really asking- are Mom and Dad really interested becaue junior typically doesn’t get there on his own when the school is more than 25 miles away. If the schools are having a hard time right now, I do not feel badly for them at all! I think it’s outrageous that every kid who submitted their $70 and hard earned and completed application is not given the same respect in the application process. The importance of demonstrated interest has been created by the U.S. News & World ranking system - it’s outrageous that USNWR doesn’t recognize it’s sphere of influence here and take action to remove this influence.</p>
<p>Rileydog, FYI USNWR actually does recognize that it has a hand to play in this admissions frenzy, which is one of the reasons they stopped using yield in calculating rankings years ago. In fact, I think most rankings don’t take into account yield.</p>
<p>^^ very well said. I think colleges are to blame also putting so much hype on kids with a hook. This makes the kids who have worked hard through out high school but without a hook apply to a whole bunch of colleges since gaining admission for them is so much tougher.</p>
<p>DCforMe - technically, I believe you are correct. What they weight though, at 10% is the acceptance rate definied as:</p>
<p>“The ratio of the number of students admitted to the number of applicants for fall admission. The acceptance rate is equal to the total number of students admitted divided by the total number of applicants. Both the applications and acceptances counted only first-time, first-year students.” </p>
<p>Seems if they aren’t careful about figuring out who are the “yes” factors, they could have too many admissions that do not lead to enrollment, which is a problem for them, of course. They want to keep the number of admissions offers low because that is the measure of selectivity so predicting the most likely attendees is still the goal. If they offer too many admissions and let nature take its course, they may well be less selective. If they offer too few to those who aren’t going to accept they will not enroll enough students or they will have huge waitlists (which we certainly have this year). I did not know they removed yield so thanks for pointing that out but I still think the schools are playing to the rankings. You can correct me if my reasoning is wrong, as it might well be…I like to point out that there are more protective regulations around buying a $200k house, a $17k car, whatever than buying a college education. I know it’s not just a product but we have kids making a huge financial commitment here - there should be some protection for the students, not just the colleges. Of course, this will all go away as the numbers go down in future years.</p>
<p>Interesting. The college where I demonstrated the most interest—3 trips, lots of follow-up emails.., all the extra tours, etc…rejected me (Yale). Demonstrated interest was not a consideration and made no difference. As it turns out I will probably be going to Harvard. The best advice I read was that they are filling a class with the most interesting people they can (assuming you are in the ballpark with the stats), they are not trying to give the most talented students or the best and brightest students spots in their class. That’s why the admissions process is so unquantifiable. You just have no idea of what they need at the particular time you are applying or what the other candidates you are up against are like.</p>
<p>“This makes the kids who have worked hard through out high school but without a hook apply to a whole bunch of colleges since gaining admission for them is so much tougher”</p>
<p>In my opinion, I don’t think many applicants are aware of what is known as “hooks”. I believe its quite a few that actually know about hooks, affirmative action, legacy and all the factors that come into play when it comes to college admissions. Some probably don’t even have an idea of how selective a certain college is and ultimately receive surprise rejections; those are usually the ones that aren’t going for just prestige only.</p>
<p>“nteresting. The college where I demonstrated the most interest—3 trips, lots of follow-up emails.., all the extra tours, etc…rejected me. It wasn’t my first choice but I thought it was necessary to demonstrate interest. It made no difference and I am glad I didn’t apply early there, because everyone I know who did was deferred…the school is Yale.”</p>
<p>With the high yield that they have, colleges like Yale and Harvard don’t consider demonstrated interest in admissions.</p>
<p>“With the high yield that they have, colleges like Yale and Harvard don’t consider demonstrated interest in admissions.”</p>
<p>Hence the reason why Harvard wouldn’t even care if you told them in an interview that you’re only applying because your parents forced you to. They know most people would matriculate anyway.</p>
<p>unless of course that school is WUSTL (Washington University in St. Louis). WUSTL wants to impress on the USNWR college rankings and therefore considers interest a huge part of the application.</p>
<p>“If the rankings did not include selectivity and yield would colleges be withholding admissions to kids who did not have the time or $$$ to visit and “demonstrate interest”, or parents who did not have the time or $$$ to visit??? Would they be trying to guess at who is a yes so hard, and not willing to take a chance? I think not.”</p>
<p>Colleges were concerned about this long before there were USNWR rankings. There were guidebooks before this as well as the fact that they want as many talented students to matriculate as possible that have the college as their first choice; not to mention the heresay and word of mouth that it creates towards building future classes.</p>
<p>is it the schools for making the application process so overblown, is it the parents for agreeing to pay for the app fees to 20 schools, is it the kids of this generation that don’t understand the word no because their parents don’t ever say no, is it the high schools that are not properly preparing the kids and stressing what it takes to get into the “good” schools", or have we all just lost sight of what is important, meaning not having to go to hyp at all costs? we have made the junior and senior year of high school a joke. kids take easy classes to boost their gpa, take the sat 5 and up times and so much time is spent on college admissions that i have to ask “where is the fun”. you have from 25 and up to worry about life, money, keeping up with…kids, stop and parents stop and colleges stop. we are all playing this game and it is not worth it.</p>
<p>I wish that the admissions decisions were more transparent. Perhaps that’s not possible, or perhaps colleges like presenting incredibly low acceptance rates; I’m sure strong arguments will be made for both points.</p>
<p>Students could match themselves more accurately to colleges if they knew what the colleges genuinely wanted. The number of applications would go down. The process would be easier on students, admissions committee members would get some sleep, and high school guidance counselors would not send out every message they could that the number of applications has to be lower.</p>
<p>As it is, most of us believe that there is a significant element that appears random in the decisions for students who meet basic GPA and SAT requirements. You don’t need to be a statistician to know that if the entry fee is low compared to the perceived payoff, and the process is random, then you increase the number of games you enter. Hence, lots of applications.</p>
<p>Ever watch people buy lottery tickets? Who buys just one?</p>
<p>It is the worst kind of inflation-- too many kids chasing too few spots in elite colleges-- and it makes the schools seem better than they really are. Did the profs all go up a notch from two years ago at these schools? No, same profs, same administration, same dorms. It’s just the fact that more kids are applying to colleges that makes the colleges harder to get in. The age group entering kindergarten next year will have it twice as easy-- they will be significantly smaller than this group.</p>
<p>acme, I’d point out two things. First, since applications are up across the board, colleges rankings to each other may not change as much as you’re anticipating. Second, I’d argue that a good deal of the attraction top colleges have is that you’re surrounded by other very bright people. If colleges become more selective that factor gains even more prominence as the people they pull in will enhance the quality of conversation even more. You’re right that it’s the same dorms and same professors, but don’t neglect the impact of different students.</p>
<p>2007mom - I agree with you that kids don’t have fun anymore but I disagree with you about kids taking easier courses junior and senior year. Or, maybe that is why my son was waitlisted at 7 colleges - he has a afew Bs in some very hard courses. This year he played two varsity sports, held leadership positions in some clubs/activities and took 7 majors - not an easy year at all. I also don’t agree that the parents are to blame. We live just outside of Boston. Years ago my son would have had no problem getting into a school in the Boston area. Now, he is “too common” to be selected for an acceptance. Since we have too many qualified MA applicants for colleges in our geographic area, our students have to apply to schools far away to get into a similar quality school! Who shall we blame for the idea that local kids can’t get into local schools - parents? Should we blame schools that believe their mission in life is to have representation from every state and country or parents who are willing to pay for the application fees (?). </p>
<p>I think we should stop blaming parents and kids as though applying to college after so many years of hard work was only about achieving a brand name - my son did not apply to HPSY…he just wanted to get a degree in engineering from a school with reasonable engineering facilities and reasonably qualified professors with opportunities for research, closer to home if possible. He also wanted to be with students who are excited about learning - being among peers in that regard is important to some kids. Every college is NOT the same, regardless of what everyone here says. </p>
<p>I loved my high school years - I believe kids today are getting shortchanged -Hanging around with your friends afterschool 1 to 3 days/week is not a recipe for failure. When kids ultimately get to college they have classes a few hours a day and 1 to 2 activities - why the madness of cramming every minute of the day in order to get into college? This madness is not driven by parents or students - it’s driven by the schools and the demographics.</p>
<p>that’s ordinary, we may call it “SHEEP EFFECT”~</p>
<p>eminent students want to go to “top schools”, though the schools in a certain range are fairly close ,say, top 50 by USNEWS. if top students are all chasing OSU, then years later OSU will exceed IVY~</p>
<p>the school doesnt matter,
the real qualities of the student matters!</p>