Ok I’m going to try to briefly explain my family circumstances so someone can try to answer the question: should I be exempt from having my noncustudial parent (ncp) fill it out?
Ok so basically my parents have been separated and divorced for years and I live with the one that makes very little money, as in under the line for full financial aid at most schools. My ncp has basically nothing to do with my family and I. She does pay child support, but other than that nothing. She doesn’t pay alimony and there is no agreement for her to help pay for college. My older brother is already in college and she does not contribute to his education at all. She refuses to. By the way she makes a pretty decent amount salary (slightly over 100k).
Anyway, my problem is that she would be unwilling to fill out the profile, and even if she did i wouldnt want it to affect my financial aid decision because she would not contribute. Is there anyway to get out of filling it out? Do colleges make exception for circumstances such as mine? One school in particular that requires the ncp is Notre Dame which I have been accepted to early action.
My brother went to a state school that didnt require the profile by the way.
bump
Under the circumstances you described you will not be eligible for a noncustodial waiver. If that were the case there would be long lines of people saying their patents refuse to pay or have anything to do with us; give me money. Keep in mind that your parents are first in line to pay for your education. When they don’t want to oay they are saying let someone else’s parents pay for my child to go to school.
Since you already know that your mother is unwilling to contribute then you need to have a few schools that won’t ask for her income and assets.
You can request a NCP waiver form and see if it flies Each college has its own rules about this. SOme PROFILE schols do not require NCP info, even, so it all depends upon the school. BUt the way it works is that you either need to get the waiver approved or the form completed, and if your NCP refuses to complete the form, and you don’t get the waiver, you do not get financial aid from the school. IF your NCP does complete the form, yes, her income and assets will be taken into account whether she will pay or not.
I suggest you start with getting ND’s NCP paperwork done, but also look at some schools that do not require this, as it is possible you won’t get the waiver and won’t get the aid you need to go there.
Try reaching out to your NCP- who has been paying child support after all, so it’s not like a parent who is in prison with no income, or has disappeared without a trace. I realize there is much you’ve left unsaid in your post, but unless you hear it directly from the parent- how do you know that she won’t pay anything for college???
@sybbie719 I understand that the colleges are put into a difficult position when is comes to a non-custodial profile as they have to decide whether a kid is trying to take advantage of the system or not. But they also have to recognize that some families and divorced parents (like mine) are simply not going to pay no matter what. You know, they would be putting debt that would not be payed back for decades on a kid like me. They obviously have to recognize that and that is what I hope to show them. I’m not trying to rip off the other admitted or prospective kids’ families. Not everyone is in the same situation and not everyone can be treated the same.
I have reached out to my NCP and she is completely unwilling. She has literally nothing at all to do with us except the court ordered child support which is included in the regular CSS profile under untaxed income. She has already demonstrated that she is “good” by her word by not paying a cent for my brother who is in his second year of college. He is getting some aid from FAFSA and is taking out a ton of loans because the school he goes to doesn’t meet full demonstrated need.
Every school I’m applying to and have applied to meets full need because I want to avoid loans at all costs. The schools all require the FAFSA, CSS, and the NCP
So my best course of action is probably to fill out fee waivers and see what happens right? But how do I go about doing it? Not all of their websites have waivers that I can download. I’m thinking I should email the financial aid office directly to ask for help at each school, but can I send out specific questions to a generic finaid.school.edu for each school?
p.s. sorry this is really long and I hope I don’t come off as rude or arrogant… that’s not what I intended
As far as the school is concerned, paying CS very clearly and definitely shows ongoing contact and involvement. This is not a parent who has vanished.
As a general rule, NCP Profile is only something that (most) private schools use. Public schools only consider custodial parents’ income.
You probably don’t know your NCP’s true financial health, income, expenses, debts, etc. She may be in much more precarious condition than you think. $100,000 is not a very high income in many places.
Your NCP (mother? second mother?) should fill out the CSS NCP Profile for any school that requires it. There are options to keep all of her information private (the school will not share it with you or your primary custodial parent), and there is an entry that asks how much she expects/plans to contribute to your college costs. Filling out the information does NOT obligate her in any way.
How is having a non-custodial parent unwilling to pay for college any different from having a single parent or married parents unwilling to pay for college?
The very best way to get a non-custodial parent to contribute to college costs is to make him/her feel that he/she is a fully involved, valued, respected, and desired parent. You have to work on that throughout your childhood, but especially before HS starts; otherwise, she might cynically (and correctly) deduce that you’re just trying to get money out of her. You cannot just show up as a teen and say, “Gee, Mom, I really miss you, and by the way can you pay for a private school for me next year?”
It may be that the only way to repair your relationship with your mother in time is to live with her for your final year (or semester?) of HS. Consider asking her whether you can do so.
As a rule, if there is no abuse involved, a child’s relationship with a non-custodial parent is whatever the primary custodian decided it would be and worked over the years to ensure it would be. Your father has had the power all along to determine whether your relationship with your mother was good or not. Did he encourage you to call her daily, visit her and stay with her more than he was required by court orders? Did he help you choose and send her holiday and birthday cards and gifts every year? Did he remind you every time he spent money that it was her support that made it possible? He’s the one in control in your case; she is the one without any power to determine anything.
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But they also have to recognize that some families and divorced parents (like mine) are simply not going to pay no matter what.
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Doesn’t matter. There are custodial parents that are simply not going to pay (or won’t pay for a pricey school) no matter what.
Schools are not going to “make up” for that…if they did that, then all parents would simply say, “we’re not paying”…and then what?
your situation is sad, no doubt about it. But…it’s no different from that of kids from intact families that won’t pay…or won’t pay for a pricey school
You’ll likely have to do what the millions of high stats kids do who have parents that won’t/can’t pay …go where you can afford to go.
ok @FCCDAD I’m not going to make any assumptions of your family situation but you seem to be pretty angry and think that I’m trying to take advantage of other students and use their money to pay my tuition.
although I said “briefly” in my original post, I guess I now have to go into more detail and this is obviously something that I will have to do when I email my schools (btw first deadline is Feb 1, I’m done with the regular CSS want to leave ample time for everything else)
My dad is my custodial parent and mom is my NCP. They divorced years ago over a domestic violence case that put my dad in jail for a few years. When he was released, he was later proven innocent. Since them my siblings and I have moved back in with him and our mom essentially abandoned us. My dad went to court because he was retired before this whole incident so he makes no money now, he is disabled, and has an ex-wife that all of a sudden stopped supporting kids. The court ordered her to pay child support and she agreed just to get away from us and be done with us. I haven’t seen her in over a year. She didn’t seek visitation rights or even custody (which she probably could have easily gotten, being a woman, but that is a whole other issue)
Anyway the fact is that she is not going to pay anything and I dont want colleges to see her high income and think that my family can and therefore should pay. Now go back to my questions from two posts ago. Should I email the general aid office and explain this situation?
@mom2collegekids so i guess what is really comes down to is: do divorced parents matter and do colleges care more about their alumni’s success after school, or their money?
you say they won’t make up for unwilling parents, it may seem cold but my argument is I essentially have one parent and he doesn’t make enough money to pay and that’s the truth
Yes, you should request NCP waivers from your schools that require NCP information. However, do understand that the odds are against you getting the waivers, given what you have shared with us. Do still try; some schools are more lenient about these things than others.
However, you do need to prepare for the distinct possibility that you don’t get the waivers. Regardless of your arguments, your rationale, and the fact that this is ever so unfair; it’s unfair to any student looking for an opportunity to go to certain colleges and finding that they are blocked from doing so financially because their parents will not support them. It’s not fair that some kids get a grand tour of Europe and all sorts of other wonderful things while others have parents who could afford the same, but won’t spend their money that way, or those whose parents can’t afford such luxuries. Private schools are luxuries. Boarding away from home is a luxury.
Make sure you have some schools on your list that you know you will be able to afford and that you know will take you, as well as these lottery ticket schools.
You asked, and people are just giving you their opinions on the likelihood of success of your receiving a NCP waiver. It doesn’t really matter what we think the rules or interpretations should be, but what they are. What we have seen over the years is that most CSS schools will not grant an NCP waiver if the parent is known, has been providing support (court ordered or not), and is not incarcerated or is not prevented from seeing the child because of a court order. In your case, your NCP has chosen not to support you after the court order expires. Sadly, not all that unusual, and many kids experience this non-support even from parents who aren’t divorced, or parents who have been not only providing financial support but educational or emotional support; some parents really don’t think they need to support their kids once they reach 18, and (in most states) those parents are legally correct, they don’t have to provide the support, fill out the forms, write the checks.
Where you are ahead of those students in that you have an option - a FAFSA only school that doesn’t care about your NCP. You can apply and probably receive a great package from such a school based on what you’ve posted about your custodial parent being low income. A student with parents who just refuse to complete the FAFSA or refuse to pay the EFC are just out of luck.
You might get lucky and the school might grant your request for a waiver based on what you have said. We’re just telling you it is unlikely.
Have you applied to any FAFSA-only schools in your state of residence?
What are your stats?
You might not end up being @ndbound2019 if it isn’t affordable.
Where does your sibling go to college?
Where do you think Financial Aid money comes from? It generally comes from parents who DO pay full tuition for their kids. It may feel like it comes from the ether or something to you, but it comes out of the pockets of other families. You are not owed an education that your one parent can afford if you other parent COULD pay but isn’t going to. It probably won’t make you feel any better, but there are plenty of parents who are married who still won’t pay for an expensive college like ND even though they could afford it.
My opinion: no, you shouldn’t, but I expect you’ll go ahead and try that anyway. Be prepared for disappointment.
As far as the schools are concerned: your Mom didn’t abuse you, they won’t believe that it has been necessary to avoid speaking with her for your own safety. She pays support, so she can be located, and she has income, and she has an ongoing connection with you. Therefore, the schools that use NCP Profile will almost certainly say she must fill it out. Why wouldn’t they? They don’t care about your parents’ divorce story, and why should they?; many parents are divorced. They hear much worse stories every year, I assure you.
I don’t think you’re trying to “take advantage” of anyone. I think you’re expecting or hoping that schools should make an exception for you, but nothing you’ve disclosed makes me think they are likely to, or should.
“I dont want colleges to see her high income and think that my family can and therefore should pay.” Well, that’s the crux of the whole matter, isn’t it? You don’t want them to see her info; you don’t want them to think you (your family) should pay. But you don’t give any good reason for the schools to not require her info; it makes no difference to them that you don’t want them to get this info.
From the schools’ point of view, they think they have an obligation to see her info - she is your mother, and she is supporting you - so as to determine whether you actually have financial need.
Your basic problem is that whether a parent is willing to pay or not is simply not a factor in determining need.
This is not because your parents are divorced. Plenty of kids in intact families have exactly the same problem.
@mom2collegekids has it right. NCP who won’t pay is basically no different from an intact family where the parents won’t pay.
“do divorced parents matter” - as a general rule, no, divorce makes no difference to CSS Profile. FAFSA only considers your household, but CSS Profile considers your parents (and stepparents, if any) regardless of whether they’re still together or not.
“do colleges care more about their alumni’s success after school, or their money?” - kind of a touchy subject, but the easiest way to explain it is: “colleges” not only care about your success, they will take credit for it and say the reason you succeed is because of the unique educational experience they gave you. The Financial Aid office (which does not speak for the whole college, no one does) does the best they can to determine the need of each student, and to prevent financial need from keeping you out of their school; but their idea of “need” is likely to be different from yours. The college does not have to choose between the options you suggest.
“my argument is I essentially have one parent … and that’s the truth” - I think the schools are unlikely to find your argument persuasive. Your Mom pays CS and supports you RIGHT NOW. That trumps your argument.
You should include some public schools among your applications, that will consider only your household (father’s) income in determining need, based on FAFSA data.
Life isn’t fair. And it’s not colleges’ responsibility to try to make it fair. And to be blunt, your problems might seem huge to you now, but after you’ve been around a few years you’ll see a lot of people with REAL problems. Worrying about whether Notre Dame will expect your Mom to help pay your tuition is just not a major problem, really. If you can’t afford to go there with what your parents will pay, then you don’t go there. Boom, problem solved.
“do colleges care more about their alumni’s success after school, or their money?”
Does your mom care about your success after school, or her money?
Why would you expect a school, THAT DOESNT KNOW YOU to care more than your mom does???
NDbound. If your colleges require the non-custodial parent Profile, and your NCP does not submit it, your financial,aid,application will be incomplete. The schools will not consider your application for institutional need based aid without the complete application materials.
I would suggest you look at schools where the non-custodial parent form is not required. Many Profile schools do not require this form.
Or look at FAFSA only schools.
If your screenname means Notre Dame bound, you likely have the stats for some merit aid at other less selective schools. Unfortunately, you have missed the deadline for applying for many for the 2015-2016 school year.
If you are a senior, and this cannot be resolved, you might want to consider a gap year, with the goal of applying to schools where merit aid would be generous for your stats.
Or hopefully you have some affordable schools on your list.
Have you applied to any public schools that do not require the Profile (or their equivalent)? You applied to no loan schools,but their FA is still going to be based on THEIR assessment of your need, not your assessment. I am sorry for your unfortunate circumstances but I hope you have a financial safety or 2 on your list. What about schools that give a lot of institutional/merit money? You seem to be banking on need based aid and you sound like unfortunately you may find that your assessment of your need may differ greatly from theirs.
Our experience was that most that required the CSS Profile also required the NCP, unless they had their own form. That was just our school list, though. Maybe there are some that don’t.
I believe there are 300 Profile schools. Only half require the NCP form…about. Some do have their own forms to collect NCP financial data.
Notre Dame does require the non-custodial parent Profile. You can ask for a waiver (I don’t think it’s likely you will get it). If you don’t get a waiver, the school will expect that NCP Profile to be submitted. If it is not, your financial aid application will be incomplete and they will not process your application for need based institutional aid.
You can call,the ND financial aid office, or make an appointment to see them in February when you go there. They will be able to tell you whether this is a problem…or not. Some schools will work with students in these situations…and some won’t.
The following is from the ND website