<p>How would one fill out the profile if one parent is a permanent resident, filing taxes, but the other is undocumented and not filing taxes? </p>
<p>The parents live together but are unmarried. My understanding is that on the FAFSA they should be listed as married and both incomes put down, with the SSN for the undocumented parent being all zeroes. What about the profile? The student is also a permanent resident.</p>
<p>bump! Really need help :|</p>
<p>THe 2014 PROFILE has a category for parents who live together but are unmarried now , and that is what should be indicated. Yes, both incomes are supposed to be listed as well as assets in either and both names. The problem is going to be that when the tax returns are checked, and the one does not file, some verification of the FAFSA/PROFILE numbers for the undocumented one is going to be required. IF s/he is supposed to be filing taxes and is not, this might be an issue. </p>
<p>PROFILE has always wanted info on both parents, married or not, for the most part.</p>
<p>Is there a specific question you are struggling with?</p>
<p>What can the student do to try to reconcile the income of the undocumented parent on the profile? Is it possible that the student won’t be able to attend schools that take the profile because of the undocumented parent? I’m pretty sure the parent is SUPPOSED to be filing, but she is working “off the books” which is why she isn’t, as far as I know.</p>
<p>@emeraldkity4, this isn’t for me, it’s for someone I know who is afraid to go to her guidance counselor with this problem as she doesn’t want to explain that her father married another woman for residency and that her mother is undocumented. She is afraid of the legal repercussions that could come about for her family. I’m not sure if there’s any questions they can’t answer, it’s more of a “will anything go wrong and stop her from going to school” thing.</p>
<p>Um…if the father is married to someone else…that spouses income will also be required on the Profile.</p>
<p>If the student lives with the mom, then the mom would complete the Profile. The other parent…the dad…who sounds like he lives with another spouse someplace, would complete the non-custodial parent profile, and would need to include his SPOUSE’s income on that as well.</p>
<p>With regards to the mom’s undocumented status, and working under the table, and not filing taxes…this is a mighty complicated web that has been woven. Is there any chance the mom COULD file taxes for 2013?</p>
<p>Yeah, I’m not sure that they’re still married. I’ll find out. Other than that, is there anything she can do about her mother being undocumented and working off the books?</p>
<p>The father and the mother live together, with this other spouse having no contact whatsoever with the child. I’m not even sure that they are still married. The mother works off the books so I don’t think she can get a taxpayer ID since she’s not an employee, unless I’m mistaken in my understanding. She obviously doesn’t have a social security number.</p>
<p>Is there anything the child can do to not be royally screwed for actions she had no control over?</p>
<p>She probably can get an ITIN and use that to file her taxes. Lots of undocumented people do so. Whether or not she wants to pay taxes would be a whole different issue.</p>
<p>If the child has good grades and test scores, he/she can take a look at the list of Automatic Merit Aid institutions in the thread at the top of this forum. Finding a place that he/she can pay for without parental help might be the best way to go.</p>
<p>Her parents will likely not even have enough to give her anything, she’s reaching for full need schools like Cornell. But Cornell requires the profile. Does this fiasco with her mom mean she may not be able to attend even upon acceptance?</p>
<p>Cornell would almost certainly have experience with this kind of thing. She should call them and ask fir their advice.</p>
<p>If she has the stats for Cornell, she probably has the stats for some of the Automatic Full Ride scholarships. Not the institutions that would be first on her list of course, but definitely affordable. Do encourage her to take a look at that thread and find some back-up options.</p>
<p>fuddyduddy=mistanervous?</p>
<p>@madison Yeah, some people I know in real life know of this account and this is somewhat sensitive information about someone we know, so I didn’t want to post on my main account. I accidentally slipped up and posted on my main, but I’ll just try to ignore that. </p>
<p>She does have the stats for Cornell. She’s going for an accredited architecture program so her options are somewhat limited. She applied to a good CUNY and will probably get in.</p>
<p>I can try to tell her to contact Cornell, but she is afraid to disclose this information because her father is cautious and afraid of what could happen.</p>
<p>That the parent is undocumented is not the issue. The problem is that the parent is not reporting income for tax purposes and would be the problem for US citizens as well. Here is the issue:</p>
<p>When the FAFSA AND PROFILE are completed, and the student/parents will have to fill out the FAFSA too even for PROFILE schools as they require both forms , if both parents are living together even if they are not married to each other, even if one or both are non documents, the problem is going to be that the parent who is NOT reporting income to the IRS is not going be able to be verified through tax returns. Since FAFSA is a federal form, when you are not filing your taxes, you may not get federal funds. So if the numbers on the FAFSA show that she should be paying taxes, and nothing comes up for her in that area, it could be a problem. Kelsmom and Sybbie can go into this more. I really don’t know whether those who do not file or pay their taxes can get federal or state aid. </p>
<p>The simplest thing to do is for the undocumented parent to file and pay the taxes owed for 2013, and then the tax return will match up with the information on the FAFSA when veriifed. It’s high time the person does this. Even illegals here are supposed to file and pay for taxes. So my advice is for the undocumented parent to go to one of the services out there who do help out illegals, many of them have someone who may be able to speak the language of that parent, if that is another issue, to get the id numbers and to file and pay the pertinent taxes. If the amounts earned are low enough, the person may not even owe much or anything in taxes. It 's a smart thing to do, because it also puts the person in position to get a number of other resources where a tax return is needed. I have seen this a number of times. IRS has not reported these taxpayers to Immigration. I live in an area rife with those in this situation. </p>
<p>Even those schools that require PROFILE need the FAFSA and the numbers on the two forms have to jive and they have to match the tax return, is my understanding, when verification is done. </p>
<p>As for the father being married to someone else, unless that person is living with them too, then he is separated and that third party will not be in the picture. My understanding is that it is the two parents living together, and so info for the two parents is needed for PROFILE and FAFSA. </p>
<p>Again, bear in mind, that the parent is illegally here and illegally working, has nothing to do with the problem. The problem is that s/he is not reporting and paying taxes. When it comes to filling out the Financial aid forms, there are a number of illegal ways to do it–leaving her off, putting her on but lying about what she makes by putting down zero (she has to have an ITN or other ID #, options listed on the forms if she is listed), or another small amount under tax threshhold, or by putting her on there and have her file taxes for 2013 like many illegals out there, so that the verification goes through.</p>
<p>Thank you so much for the in depth explanation. I will try to convince her to get her mother to file her taxes now. Can someone get a taxpayer ID even if they work off the books?</p>
<p>fuddyduddy, there are groups that deal with this for many illegals who are in this country. There is a number that the mother can get. There are instructions on what should be used on the FAFSA and PROFILE if a parent cannot get a social security number. It’s not high tide time for filing 2013 taxes yet and the 2014 FAFSA hasn’t been out for 2 weeks yet, so there is time to get all of this together.</p>
<p>My guess, and this IMO only, the issue will be whether the family can or will pay the taxes owed on the income if they are substantial to them. Since the mom is not married to the dad, her taxes will be filed on a single basis, and so she will have some allowance there of income before having to pay any taxes. But it galls me to no end that my mother who gets less than $20K a year through federal pension has to pay over a thousand in taxes. She cannot afford to live on her own with her medical expenses and other fixed costs that she has, and yet, she owes that much in taxes each year when about half the country does not pay taxes. Part of this is because she has a federal pension rather than social security. My MIL who gets more in social security than my mother does in her pension doesn’t have to pay taxes. But that’s a whol other subject.</p>
<p>The thing here is that if the mom owes, a thousand or so in taxes, will she be able to pay? Will the family just decide not to pay? There is also the fear that she is now listed on the federal rolls and could she be audited? Can they and will they track her down? Families in this situation often do not want to draw any attention to themselves. Then their kids come to age and forms like this one come up. Fortunately, the child is a permanent resident. I’ve seen cases where the child is illegally here as well, and the answer in such cases is that they cannot get federal/state aid, and have to apply as an international student unless the state/college has some provision for that situation. </p>
<p>Again, the optimal solution to all of this is to have the mother get the number she needs to start filing taxes for 2013 and then the FAFSA and the PROFILE can be filled out honestly and accurately and the paperwork will all match. Anything else would require deception.</p>
<p>Around here, there are a lot of people working for cash, whether they are citizens or illegals and anything in between. Even if you are stealing the money, you are supposed to be filing income taxes. Al Capone was finally put away because he wasn’t filing and paying his income taxes. So even if you are getting money through illegal means, and you are here illegally, you are supposed to be reporting the money to the IRS and if you are making enough, you owe taxes on it. </p>
<p>Most of those I know who get paid under the table or in cash, keep somewhat of a paper trail as to what they get. If you are living in a place and paying $X for rent, $Y for Utilities, and you have to eat somehow, if you have a bank account, one can reconstruct a minimum amount that person has to be getting from somewhere. A bank account can show money coming in, and questions will be asked where is that money coming from? A gift? Then from whom? Every month? You can see where that goes. The IRS does not care if you are being paid for doing tricks on the street corner. You have to report that income. And if audited, if you catch their attention, they will want all bank accounts, all payment activity so that a reconstruction of how much a person has to be getting from somewhere can be made.</p>
<p>In the case of your friends, since the mom lives with the student’s father, income may not have to reported. I have had years where I didn’t earn a dime, as a SAHM. So could she. But if the family is audited and the bank accounts are eyeballed and things are being payed that do not match what the dad is making, the questions do come up. IF mom is just putting her money under the mattress or keeping it all cash and spending it for partial support for the famly with no paper trail, the chances of getting caught can be quite low. However, it doesn’t take much to get caught when under scrutiny. Those I know in these situations do report their income (all of it , I don’t know, but a reasonable amount of it,certainly any checks they get that can be tracked) and pay taxes if owed on it. With a low income, the chances of any audit or investigation are very low anyways–never heard of one, and for many reasons, it could become important to show the paperwork. It is a fact of life, however, that some SAH folks do not report the money they may get baby sitting or doing some side work, especially if it doesn’t amount to much in their eyes. Not something I recommend, but that is the case in reality. </p>
<p>So it’s all up to your friends as to how they can fill out the FAFSA and PROFILE. No school I know, no reputable person will advise anything other than for the mom to get her needed ID # and to report what she earned, file and pay the taxes. There are folks like her that did indeed earn nothing–they lived off their partner, and so do not have to file taxes , and this person may have earned under the threshhold for having to file and owe taxes. In which case that is put on the FAFSA and PROFILE, and when it comes to verification ,the answer to the request for tax records is that the person did not make enough money to owe or pay taxes and therefore did not file.</p>
<p>Moderators note: please be advised that it is against the TOS for a user to have multiple accounts</p>
<p>“Can someone get a taxpayer ID even if they work off the books?”</p>
<p>Yes.</p>
<p>Many people get them precisely for that reason. They have otherwise undocumented cash income that they want to account for. It doesn’t matter if the people who pay them don’t keep records. What matters is that the person who is paid does in turn pay his or her income tax.</p>
<p>I apologize for the issue, sybbie, my mistake.</p>
<p>Thank you for all the information cpt and happymom. I am trying to find help for my friend because she is too afraid/unwilling to go to anybody directly and it would break my heart to see her college wishes crushed because of this situation. I will come back here should I have any more questions.</p>