<p>Is the D.O. degree considered to be inferior to the M.D.? Not just in terms of what is actually taught, but professionally. Are D.O.'s discriminated against in terms of seeking residencies and employment. I.E. would a top graduate from the lowest ranked M.D. medical school be considered "better" or be chosen over a top graduate from a top ranked D.O. medical school?</p>
<p>Furthermore, could a MSU medical school grad, go on to UMICH hospital for a residency and/or employment? Not just if, but has this ever happened?</p>
<p>Yes, they're looked down upon, and I think with good reason: the admissions standards into the various degree programs are not equivalent, and so the caliber of students in the different kinds of programs are not equivalent. With that said, DO's are fully licensed to practice whatever sort of medicine they want, and have some residencies that they will exclude MD's from. In other words, DO's can apply to both DO and MD residencies; MD's can only apply to MD residencies (which are generally more prestigious anyway).</p>
<p>I like DO programs and strongly advise in their favor over international MD programs. But I think, generally, I would advise a qualified candidate to pursue a DO as a backup option to an American MD.</p>
<p>DO students seem to learn more than MD students, and they're taught to look at the whole person... if they had higher admissions standards, would their graduates have more prestige?</p>
<p>In the rest of the world D.O. practice resembles Chiropractic practice in the U.S.</p>
<p>Admissions stats quoted in the wiki piece:
[quote]
Osteopathic medical schools have been criticized for being less focused on research and scientific discovery than allopathic schools. More recently, osteopathic medical schools have consciously worked toward becoming more research focused. Critics also have highlighted the lower average academic attainment of students who matriculate to osteopathic schools--GPA, 3.46 for osteopathic vs 3.63 for allopathic matriculants, and MCAT scores, an average of 24.6 for osteopathic vs 30.2 for allopathic matriculants. While the average GPA and MCAT scores are indeed lower at osteopathic medical schools compared to allopathic schools, some have argued that this difference really reflects osteopathic admission committees' emphasis on a variety of non-academic factors and personal characteristics believed to be centrally important to training physicians.
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</p>
<p>Just like MD's, plumbers and teachers -- some D.O.'s are great, some are lousy. The best DO's typically seek Osteopathy as a primary training path for philosophical or personal reasons, not as a fallback plan for a failed medical school bid. (My opinion only.)</p>
<p>With 20 years of experience in working side by side with both DO and MD physicians, I will agree with PSedrishMD. It just depends on the person.</p>
<p>My Mom's primary Dr. is a DO. His partner is MD. I do believe the DO is more holistically focused and works very well with some of her "hooha" Drs at the big medical center. (She is a bit of a rare case and has a couple of leading experts who see her for specific illnesses). They are impressed with him and appreciate the fact that he is always asking them the right questions and they knew he was DO from the beginning.</p>
<p>It does depend on the individual, but I'd say that, in general, DO's are looked down upon as second rate. MD schools are harder to get into. Few people would choose a DO degree over an MD--many/most DO students are those who didn't get accepted at MD schools. The training is very similar, though, and many DOs do residencies side by side with MD's at MD hospitals. However, IMO there is always going to be a stigma attached to the DO degree.</p>
<p>The best DO's are clearly on par with above-average MD's. Anybody who refuses to see/refer patients to a DO simply because of the degree is clearly behaving absurdly. Many DO's are wonderful, and many MD's clearly aren't.</p>
<p>I do think, however, that on balance MD's are probably more scientifically knowledgeable and have often been trained better.</p>
<p>And yes, I'd choose an MD degree from the lowest ranked US medical school over any DO degree. Employers are looking for MDs from US medical schools above all else. They don't care about the rank of the school, IMO.</p>
<p>While I agree with the sentiment, I think your point is made too strongly.</p>
<p>First, while practice etc. is impacted very little by the "rank" of the med school, I think to suggest that they "don't care" is a little strong.</p>
<p>Second, I the "worst" US MD program probably has lower GPA/MCAT scores coming in than the "best" DO program, and the quality of education is probably lower as well. This is all speculation on my part, but I feel quite strongly that these are both reasonable suggestions.</p>
<p>You can look up the average MCAT scores of most MD and DO schools on the US News site. There is a pretty clear dividing line (around 8.5/9.0) with almost all DO schools below that score and almost all MD schools above that score--with very little overlap. DO's can have great careers, but they will always be considered second best to MD's. If a student has scores in that "overlap" range (best of the DO schools, lowest ranked MD schools), I would strongly suggest trying to gain admission to an MD school if possible. MD's have a much wider selection of job opportunities than DO's. </p>
<p>From my observation, many DO's have to spend their careers explaining what "DO" stands for. Many try to hide the fact that they are DO's, avoiding the use of "DO" on their signs and nametags in favor of "Dr.," and hoping people assume they are MD's. On the other hand, you will never find an MD trying to pass him/herself off as a DO, or not proudly displaying the letters "MD" after his/her name on office signs and nametags.</p>
<p>1.) Again, I am not arguing with you in principle, I am simply suggesting that your point is made somewhat too strongly. The very worst MD programs over the very best DO ones?</p>
<pre><code> UMDNJ (DO): 26.4, 3.5
Des Moines (DO): 26, 3.56
MSU (DO): 25.5, 3.49 (*Ranked the #4 medical school, MD programs included, for primary care)
Univ. New England (DO): 25, 3.4
Univ. N. Texas (DO): 27.5, 3.52
NY COM (DO): 26, 3.5
</code></pre>
<p>So while you're right that DO's often don't advertise the fact, I don't think students from ECU or Meharry run around carrying sandwich boards either.</p>
<p>Of course I'm picking extreme examples, because I agree with your argument in principle. I just don't think we can push the point to where you'd say that the "worst" MD school is better than the "best" DO program.</p>
<p>(I'm not sure what the numbers you're quoting refer to--I was only looking at MCAT scores--I assume they are part of the the US News rankings?). </p>
<p>BTW, the MD schools with the lowest scores are one in Puerto Rico, and a couple historically black schools, and I think those are separate cases. </p>
<p>I agree that someone who attends MSU DO school could get significantly better training than someone at the lowest ranked MD school. The problem is that the MSU graduate will forever have "DO" after his or her name, and the student from ECU, Meharry or Howard will have "MD"--a more marketable degree. They will carry the degree, not the name of the school. My point is, MD schools have smarter students in almost all cases--very little overlap, as we've both pointed out.</p>
<p>Tell you the truth, my friend who is doctor says that the most important thing is experience and your practice. That is what determines how much money you will get.</p>
<p>I intentionally omitted the Puerto Rican schools. Howard and Meharry are both "historically" black, but I'm not sure what that means. (Einstein is "historically" Jewish, a distinction that is meaningful for recruiting but, apparently, not for admissions.)</p>
<p>The numbers are indeed for MCATs and GPA. USN takes the strange step of dividing the total MCAT score by 3, for reasons that escape me. (An average of each subsection?)</p>
<p>Coming late to this party - but..............</p>
<p>There IS a difference between the training for a DO vs an MD - please keep that in mind - they have different approaches and philosophies towards medicine and how it is practiced. </p>
<p>Having worked with many a DO and many an MD - there is little difference in quality of practice - depending of course on the individual practitioner. Having worked in a predominately DO hospital - I actually found a much better patient approach by the DO's vs MD's - alot more hands on and compassionate - not to say that MD's are not - but part of the training for a DO is focused on ''total body and mind'' not just on one body system at that time as in general medicine.</p>
<p>Becoming a DO vs an MD should be a personal choice - based on philosophies believe in and direction that one wants to travel in medicine.</p>
<p>
[quote]
would a top graduate from the lowest ranked M.D. medical school be considered "better" or be chosen over a top graduate from a top ranked D.O. medical school?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>You have to remember that the school is not what gets you into a residency. Its how well you do on Steps (esp 1), research, honor rotations, ranking, LOR. If all is equal between the two applicants mentioned, then the interview and interactions with faculty and residents will decide on high they rank each applicant. </p>
<p>Its probably going to be hard for you to know which program is top for what field, but you can see that people are matching in a variety of fields. Again, these are individual achievement for the student. </p>
<p>
[quote]
Furthermore, could a MSU medical school grad, go on to UMICH hospital for a residency and/or employment? Not just if, but has this ever happened?
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<p>Residency- if they got the numbers and extra stuff needed to compete.
Employment- yes you can work there if you have the best CV amoung the applicants for the job</p>