D met with the rep at school and she thought he was boring and uninspiring. Thanks for reminding me though. Teenagers are impressionable and I think she envisions meeting reps who get her excited about a school and, since she was not impressed by this rep, she wanted to nix the whole idea. I should probably keep in on the long list… Lots of folks here seem to think it’s a match for what she wants.
I just looked up how to get to Lehigh though and it’s a royal pain. Two hour bus ride to Philly airport and it’s not clear how to get to the bus station from campus. Or I guess a 20 min cab or Uber ride to Lehigh Valley Airport? I’d have to figure out what flights look like to and from Lehigh Valley. Doesn’t seem like there would be a ton of flights every week.
I agree that Lehigh seems to meet a lot of OP’s D’s criteria.
It’s a pretty campus, great academics, social students, access to a decent size town, but not much within walking distance.
On the downside, some of the immediate surrounding blocks are a bit rough, and they also continue to have issues with Greek Life…just last week Lehigh put a ‘pause’ on all Greek life due to excessive partying and other bad behaviors. The administration seems intent on reining in the Greek system, so not sure where this ends up…the last several years have seen a lot of tension between the administration and Greek system.
Too late to edit above, but 66% of the kids are from Pennsylvania, New York, or New Jersey. Only 28% from the rest of the US. The rest are international. Not sure that appealing. Seems so regional. I do agree that it fits the bill for much of D’s priorities but the geographical breakdown gives me pause.
But… I would guess there’s a whole lot of cultural/racial/S.E diversity within the states of New York, New Jersey and Pennsylvania that rivals or matches anything seen in other part of the country except for maybe California. I mean, I don’t know that for sure, and I don’t have statistics to back that up, but it’s not a homogenous region. I’d venture to say there’s more diversity (of all kinds, not just geographic) there as, say Elon, or W&L or lots of midwestern schools.
Not really, though I guess it depends on which colleges you are using for comparison. According to the 2019 CDS, here is the breakdown for non-white racial/ethnic groups at Lehigh:
Hispanic/Latino: 9%
Asian: 7%
Black/AA: 4%
Two or more races: 3.5%
Race or ethnicity unknown: 3.5%
“@Twoin18 is pretty far off on present-day USC, which has a lower acceptance rate than UCLA and slightly higher stats for admission. Programs like cinema hover around 6% (but look at more than grades/scores since faculty do the actual review for cinema), and the school overall is about 11%.”
Actually twoin18 is pretty accurate about his/her views on USC and UCLA. The latest CDS has USC at 13% and UCLA at 12% and the 75% are about the same for both, but the 25% is higher for USC, as UCLA takes kids from lower-SES communities who typically have lower scores. Which means that that in order for the averages to be about the same, UCLA gets the higher stats kids, GPA and scores, especially if you’re high SES white/Asian.
Regarding travel to Lehigh. Newark airport is likely closer to Lehigh than philly. My son is at Lafayette (which is 20 min from Lehigh) and he typically flies from Lehigh valley intl airport (Allentown) to Newark and then home to Cleveland. He has also gone through philly but usually starts at Allentown and prices don’t seem to be any higher. Just a pain to have a connecting flight.
Lehigh may not be all that ethnically diverse, but New York is. Queens is the most ethnically diverse urban county in the US, and the most linguistically diverse place on earth.
I don’t think a wide mix of states ensures diversity, or vice versa. 65% of D19’s fellow students are from Virginia and she’s from NY. She doesn’t know/remember where most of the people she meets are from, and she doesn’t feel like the student body is at all homogenous. It could be argued that D19 and a kid from NoVA have more in common than a kid from NoVA and one from Roanoke.
@homerdog , is the worry that large numbers of students will already know each other? Or is it more that the culture of the school won’t feel familiar because there aren’t as many kids from the Midwest?
D21 actually has a geographical concern that too many kids from Long Island go to Elon. This is based on nothing but hearsay and social media, but since she is looking for a different feel and pace of life than our area, it gave her pause.
Thanks for sharing your journey. I can so often relate, and it brings up new considerations and perspectives for us.
I meant diversity in it’s broadest sense. That includes racial diversity, sure, but I was referring to diversity of life experiences too. Farm kids, Appalachian kids, suburban kids and city kids (yes, Queens!) People whose families immigrated three hundred years ago and lots who who are first and second gen. Also. residents of these states who have moved there from all areas of the country.
I’m not promoting Lehigh. I did visit someone I knew at the school passing though (a boy at Lehigh who grew up in an alternative. rural homeschooling family of artists, BTW, far from the Lehigh Greek strereotype). He feels that the current tension at Lehigh is a positive sign that diverse groups of every kind now have enough presence at the school to form a critical mass that is changing the old-guard white/wealthyGreek dominance. It honestly felt more diverse to me than some other campuses I’ve been on, though I’m not sure what that was based on. My D is not considering the school so I didn’t give it a great deal of thought. But it didn’t have a regional feel to me, at all.
We visited Lehigh twice and thought it was one of the most beautiful campuses out there. We thought it looked just like Cornell, which is gorgeous as well. My daughter loved the hills.
@homerdog yes it draws a lot of kids from NY, NJ, and Pa…but a kid from Queens is different than a kid from Fredonia (upstate NY) or even Long Island. It’s might be difficult to grasp unless you live here. NY is a very, very diverse state. Lehigh is trying to increase geographic diversity.
The reason why I think your D should keep Lehigh on her list is because it really checks all of her boxes, despite the underwhelming personality of the rep who visited her school. Did she send him a follow up email? Lehigh tracks interest…my guess is that she received “credit” for the school visit. See if there are any “Lehigh in your area” events that are coming to your area. I think you would find them interesting. We attended 2…and enjoyed them.
I like the idea of flying to Newark and then to Lehigh Valley. You might also check if there are buses from Newark, JFK, or LaGuardia that take students to the Lehigh area.
Lehigh is a good size with strong students, rah rah, Greek life etc. and while she may ultimately choose another school…I feel like it’s too early to dismiss it entirely.
@inthegarden maybe I just meant there would be an east coast vibe there that wouldn’t match for D. That’s just a lot of kids from those three states. It probably has much to do with the location of the school and it being far away from major airports. I’m guessing NY, NJ, PA families can just drive to and from campus.
Bowdoin has 30 percent of their kids from New England but almost 70 percent of kids from just three states at Lehigh seems like D might feel out of place. S19 has friends from
Boston for sure but also Montana and California and Ohio. He doesn’t feel “different”. He decided to take W&M out of the running because, obviously, it’s almost all kids from VA and I don’t think that was a bad reason to turn down a school. D also doesn’t really want to feel like an outsider.
I think all of the schools on her list have more geographical diversity even if there aren’t a lot of Midwesterners. Also, we are trying to avoid difficult travel. She has a long enough list of schools that won’t be as hard to get to. This is maybe more of a priority than some families have. The bus to Newark is two hours. She is not taking a bus to Newark and then flying home. For that pain, the school would have to be the perfect place. S19’s travel is complicated and expensive and we’d rather not repeat that.
And, no, she didn’t write a thank you since she really didn’t want to pursue Lehigh after the meeting.
I guess I just don’t see what Lehigh is adding at this point when we think she’d have a decent shot at some of the schools on her list that seems like better matches. If we lived out that way, it would totally make sense.
I wish there was a “Lehigh” in the Midwest as that would be perfect!
The Queens reference wasn’t about Lehigh but about the diversity of NY state. (I am also sure there are kids from Queens at Lehigh.) Out of the top 10 public schools in NY state (according to US News) numbers 1, 3 and 8 are in Queens. They have minority enrollment ranging from about 70-90% and economically disadvantaged 40-60%.
Of course you should cross off schools for any reason that feels right to you and D21. I was just saying that NY has strong students from a very wide range of backgrounds.
Lehigh came up wayyyyyy back in this thread. I agree, it’s gorgeous. But OP made clear her D doesn’t care for it, and it’s a reach anyway. It’s always too easy to keep adding reaches, as we all know, haha.
Can you give us a list of definites and possibles?
Well I’m not sure anything is definite yet since we are still waiting on SAT scores but here’s a run down of the long version of the list.
Wake forest
Davidson
Richmond
Washington and Lee
Boston College
Villanova
Tulane
Colgate
Santa Clara
Miami OH
Maybe Emory if her scores are higher. It’s not a perfect fit but I still think she may like it.
Want to look more into LMU and U San Diego knowing that neither school is perfect but she is curious about CA schools. I think both would be safeties.
I want to look more into Fordham. A friend of hers just got in but isn’t going because “she never really wanted to, it’s her safety” which of course turned D off on the idea. See what I’m dealing with here?
I took Bates and Furman off. More and more I just don’t think they are a fit. Bates is a big reach anyway and Furman just seems too sleepy.
As a reminder, she would like the following
-option to live on campus for at least three years
-big school spirit
-small class size
-compact campus
-dance options as non-major
I mentioned that she’s not 100 percent sure about LACs now but she loved Davidson when we went two years ago. Said she would go there and be done. I think what’s changed is S19 telling her how small schools can feel small socially. Also, she is juxtaposing his experience with her good friends’ life at BC and thinks those kids have a way better balance. (S19 does go out on Sat nights but he is studying a LOT otherwise).
We’ve been to Wisconsin and Illinois and she’s totally turned off by big campuses.
Much of all of this analysis comes from (1) we are full pay and I want her to have as close to the best fit as possible for the price we would pay at schools with no merit so schools have dropped off for maybe some reasons others wouldn’t drop them and (2) S19 really found close to a very perfect match for himself after a ton of work on both his side and mine - I would love to find a place where D feels just as at home as he feels.
I reread the OP’s original post in this thread. Informative & well thought out.
Daughter favors history, English, political science, psychology, and communications over math & science.
Daughter is an accomplished dancer who is outgoing & social.
Initial list of schools:
Denison Univerersity
Furman University
College of William & Mary
Davidson College
Colgate University
University of Richmond
Wake Forest University
Appears that the University of Richmond, Wake Forest University, and Colgate University are the frontrunners at this time. Davidson College is a favorite as well. Now curious about the University of San Diego & Loyola Marymount University.
Daughter has a superscored 29 ACT & is planning on taking the SAT.
Daughter attends a large, competitive high school in the Chicago area where relatively few matriculate at LACs. Intellectual, athletic brother is in his first year at Bowdoin College.
Prepared & able to be a full pay student.
OP holds Naviance in high regard.
P.S. OP: Sorry for posting this as I was typing while you posted your update.
I would cross Lafayette off if Lehigh doesn’t work for travel. They are right down the road from each other, so it would be the same course of travel.
I can’t keep track, @homerdog - I think you dropped Elon? I’ve heard Elon referred to as a NJ school in NC so that might not be a fit either. Part of the reason it was on our list - my D isn’t interested in the Southern feel!