D21 journey

College Search & Selection
681

@elena13 The only problem with that is that she has no chance at Emory without higher scores than her current goal. I think she’d need more like high-1400s at least. She should get her first SAT scores back just two days before we fly out. I can have her look at Emory’s website, etc., and maybe we could change plans at the last minute. We’d have to fly into Atlanta on Sunday, tour on Monday and then drive the five or so hours Monday night to get to Wake by Tuesday. Not impossible I guess.

D should think about it a little more. She has been to Davidson. I wonder if she could make that call without going back. I want her to be sure that she doesn’t want a LAC and, honestly, if she likes the idea at all then I think either Davidson or Colgate would be the top contenders for her.

I did check out the EA dates for the schools that offer them and none are helpful at all except Santa Clara which comes in Dec. The others come in Jan after ED2 at Wake and Richmond. We really are going to have to think strategy once she feels like she’s maxed out scores. RD has gotten so difficult at a lot of schools and she most likely won’t be above the 75th percentile in scores. Not sure why these schools even bother with having EA if they’re just going to defer a ton of kids and then deny them. The only plus is you find out in Jan and that’s only a plus if the answer is yes. If the answer is no or defer, that’s just anxiety inducing until RD decisions come in.

This is how I see this panning out-

A. She hits the somewhat reasonable goal of 1420 which puts her at least in the ball park for most of the schools she likes. She finds a favorite where we think she has a good chance and goes ED. Has other schools’ apps ready to go for RD or EA if offered. If ED doesn’t go well, she could choose an ED2 school.

B. She hits that 1420, doesn’t find a favorite and applies to a LOT of schools. I’m a little worried that this will be what will happen. If she gives up the ED bump, she has even more work ahead of her including finding more safeties she likes. And then we’re back to what we did with S19, waiting for all decisions until March and re-visiting in April. Not a fan of this option and won’t really be comfortable with it unless she scores higher than 1420 in the hopes that she would have some success in RD with matches/high matches.

C. She gets lucky and gets to the high 1400s. If she has a favorite that’s more of a reach and we will have to decide if it’s worth shooting for it with an ED app…or maybe this just means we feel even better about an ED app where she’s in the top 25% for scores. Or she bags ED decides to go all EA and RD. We would probably try to visit any reaches that want demonstrated interest. Worse case is that we have to visit during the summer.

D. She doesn’t break 1400. Maybe she applies to Wake ED without a score. Or tries Richmond ED. I did see some kids with 1380s who got in there ED. If she can pick an ED and an ED2, that would probably give her the best chance of getting into a higher match instead of being faced with a host of matches and safeties come April. In this case, we would drop the bigger reaches. Wouldn’t bother with schools where she’s towards the bottom of the 50th percentile. If she’s below 1400, we need to actually visit safeties like Miami and Denison (yes, I might make her visit even if she’s not sure about LACs). She may have to start thinking about state schools, too, to round out the list so she has options come April. She can start investigating how to make those state schools smaller. Maybe prioritize the state schools where dance is strong so she would at least meet other dancers and make a smaller community for herself.

682

@homerdog When you tour B.C. be sure to visit the dorms that are NOT on the upper campus. 40% of all first years will end up there so it’s important to visit more than the main campus you see on the tour. D20 stayed at B.C. for several weeks last summer while taking an Econ course. They have continuous shuttles from the Newton campus to the upper campus (where students have classes), but in the early morning Boston traffic the ride can seem a bit longer than desired. I imagine snow in the winter could add additional time. D20 was thankful to be on upper campus. One benefit to the Newton campus: no forced triples. D stayed in a forced triple on upper campus, though for the summer they used it as a double. It was just passable for D and her roommate. We couldn’t imagine 3 students being forced into that tiny room for an entire year.

B.C. will be easy to tour when you visit your S at Bowdoin. Villanova will be quite a drive from ME/MA though.

683

Some thoughts on USC: My D17 got in with a 29 ACT/3.7 GPA. She was a Theater major, which likely affected her admission (I think her stats are low for USC as a whole, but she maybe had to be accepted academically first, I don’t remember). Since you say you might not visit, here’s our impressions: Big, like a big state school. The cultural diversity is evident. Very nice facilities and of course, impressive athletics and school spirit abounds. I think there would be lots of dance/performance arts opportunities for non majors. Any other entertainment you could possibly want. Its a large campus, self contained, The surrounding area of LA isn’t that great and one reason (IMO) behind USC building their own retail area, I think its called USC village was a newish thing then which had retail, restaurants, etc… Our rental car was keyed in the USC parking garage during our visit. I do think there is a level of privilege there (after all, one nickname is “University of Spoiled Children”) but certainly that is only one segment of students and it seems to me big and diverse enough to find your people! USC was nothing like some that were on my S19’s list that overlap with your Ds list…Richmond, Wake, W&L. We live near Ohio State U and that’s what USC seems the most similar to.

D17 did not ultimately choose USC, I think the largeness of the school was not a fit and while the campus was impressive, she didn’t really feel any connection or draw there. She does attend school in LA, however, at LMU. As for having a student in college in LA…it’s expensive. The housing is pretty pricey, and even more so if/when they move off campus. Groceries, gas, movies, etc, all very expensive. And of course there is the traffic. We find LA a bit exhausting when we visit, but have figured it out now. Weather can’t be beat. She is in a beautiful spot up on a bluff with ocean views and close to beach. She loves it, loves both her school and LA and has no regrets about her college choice. But her desired career path (film/TV) lives there, so that’s what the draw of LA is for her. But she realizes how hard it is to live there with the astronomical housing and cost of living.

684

As CA residents we see plenty of rivalry and comparisons between USC and UCLA. Of course being instate there is a big difference in cost for many families. UCLA tends to get the serious students, while USC gets the social kids who don’t necessarily have the stats for UCLA but have something else that makes them stand out. And often those families are looking for something that the UCs don’t offer, for example we know kids who went there for dance or architecture. So the USC kids were typically ranked in the top 5-10% of the class but none of them were top 3%, which is where most of the UCLA kids ranked. That may be a bit different OOS where the chance of merit at USC may attract more very strong applicants who wouldn’t want to be full pay at UCLA (though my S’s friend chose UCLA over Boston College).

685

I think @TS0104 captures USC pretty well. My husband taught there for a number of years, so I’ve spent a lot of time at the school and have many friends on the faculty. Before we moved to LA, I had the old University of Spoiled Children idea in my mind and kind of expected a campus full of blond kids with Colgate smiles, but it’s not at all like that. It’s a big, very diverse university with strong academics, a beautiful campus and facilities and crazy sports (it’s like a religion going to the football games). It is true that the area around USC is not the best, but overall, at least to my mind, LA is a wonderful city. I am from New York and thought LA would be kind of monotonic, but I found the same kind of diversity and creativity there as at home, in a much more laid-back and pleasant environment. It’s not for everyone, but if it seems like a fit on paper, it might be worth a visit.

686

I just looked up geographic info on the students at USC. 39% are from CA, then the next most represented states are Texas, New York, and Illinois. Who knew? International is 17%. Only 30% white. I can see why it seems diverse. Interesting!

687

Two years ago, USC reported 39% white, 21% Asian, 15% Hispanic, 5% black, 6% mixed, and 13% international. (On paper, this diverse mix seems near perfect.)

38% determined to have financial need.

@TS0104 : Over the past several years, I have heard & read nothing but praise for Loyola Marymount University. (I deal extensively with a certain specialty program at the graduate level which is offered at less than a few dozen schools in the country & LMU receives consistent praise.)

OP: If you make the trip to LA, consider LMU as it has a significant Visual & Performing Arts major along with Business, Commmunications, Social Sciences, & Psychology.

A concern about LMU is that only 50% of the undergrads remain / live on campus.

Another interesting school is Pepperdine University in Malibu. Worth a visit just to see & experience the campus. Great for tennis.

Both LMU & Pepperdine have active Greek chapters.

688

I’ve probably missed some info. Did your D get a test score back since I was last here?

You might remember that my S was accepted for the Trojan Transfer program at USC. We visited last summer as I’m from So Cal and both my parents attended. My family are Trojans all the way, and USC has a lot of school spirit, which it sounds like your D wants.

It’s big, beautiful, and expensive. The new village is awesome. My son really liked it, but not enough to actually transfer. It’s VERY selective now. I think it’s down to less than 10%. It’s going to be a high reach for all.

What match and safety schools are on the list now? Has she visited some of those? And what’s off the list?

ETA: pretty religious vibe at Pepperdine, as far as I am aware.
If she needs a safety or match in So Cal, have a look at U San Diego. Wow, the campus and view are stunning. Can’t beat the location, though apparently a lot of people move off campus after the first year and everything happens at the beach. Not a terrible thing, of course. There was a fun frat fundraiser for charity when we visited. Got to smash cream pies in their faces and they were nice kids.

689

Pepperdine is quite conservative and religion & faith are important. Probably not suitable for OP’s daughter, but definitely worth a visit if in the area touring colleges.

But I do think that Loyola Marymount University might be a interesting match for OP’s daughter. Plus, visiting Pepperdine’s campus and LMU’s campus should make LA look great.

P.S. LMU may also award merit scholarships, not sure, but they certainly do in some programs with which I am familiar.

690

@Publisher Getting way ahead of ourselves here. All I said was that, since D is thinking she may prefer midsized schools over LACs, we may have to add a few schools. I also acknowledged that she would not apply to a place like USC unless she surprises us and hits at least high 1400s. Pepperdine would be a big no. LMU an interesting idea. We have no plans to visit schools in CA right now.

@Lindagaf No new scores. Latest is that she’s not going to take a third ACT. Ended with 29 superscore but just took a second practice SAT with not much studying at all, likes the pacing way better and got a 1410, up from 1380 on her first practice test. 700 on math on this last practice test is equivalent to a 30, while her highest math ACT score was a 26. The SAT is obviously the better test for her.

1410 composite is a 31 ACT, 1420 would get her to a 32 equivalent which is solid for the schools we think she’s most interested in. A few pages ago, I wrote that, if she surprises herself and gets closer to 1500 then maybe she would add some reaches…that’s where USC came up.

She feels like she’s making progress with the SAT, feels a lot less stress with the timing. And she has plenty of time to study before the March sitting.

691

@homerdog I know you are not Catholic but a lot of Jesuit/Catholic schools are midsized. While typically the majority of kids attending them are Catholic, I think you will find that many are “culturally” Catholic and not necessarily or acting or devout. Jesuit schools tend to be more liberal and concentrated in urban areas with diversity. I know you have Villanova on your list, but have you considered Fordham in NYC? The Bronx campus has a beautiful (contained) campus even tho it’s very urban. I think it would hit most of your daughter’s interests, perhaps more so than Villanova. Fordham does not, however, have Greek life.

692

@4kids4us Fordham is an interesting thought. D has a friend who dances there but she’s on the other NYC campus. I’ll ask the GC about it for sure and have D look at the website. Sometimes, I think her want for Greek life really just means “social” in general. She wouldn’t want to be on a campus that has Greek life and not be a part of it if it’s the main social scene. A school without Greek life is most likely just fine as long as there’s fun to be had. Let’s just say her friends at BC are not missing Greek life. )

693

@Twoin18 is pretty far off on present-day USC, which has a lower acceptance rate than UCLA and slightly higher stats for admission. Programs like cinema hover around 6% (but look at more than grades/scores since faculty do the actual review for cinema), and the school overall is about 11%. Students are very strong and are serious about learning (if also eager to enjoy LA and have fun.) Both are very large schools. USC is private but can end up costing less if you have financial need or are from out of state. Both are great schools if you want access to a big city and the resources larger campuses provide.

694

Loyola Marymount University overlap schools according to Fiske Guide To Colleges 2020:

USC, UCLA, Santa Clara, Chapman, Cal Poly-San Luis Obispo, UC-Santa Barbara, NYU, & UCal-Berkeley.

Pepperdine overlaps (for readers of this thread other than OP who has written that Pepperdine is not under consideration:

Baylor, Loyola Marymount University (LMU), Macalester, Occidental, SMU, University of San Diego, & Wheaton (Illinois) & Calvin. (ultra liberal Macalester ??? This may be a misprint as I cannot imagine a student who would target both Pepperdine & Macalester)

695

Yes, yes. I know USC is very selective these days. Kids from our school who get into some pretty selective schools like a Duke or Northwestern get turned down by USC. Super clear on that. Probably should not have ever mentioned USC on this thread. Lol.

696

Not sure why @Allaboutthecats thinks my experience isn’t current, I’m simply relating the results from my kids NorCal public HS over the last 3-4 years, which sends 4-10 kids per year to UCLA, about the same to UCB and about half that to USC. The academically top (usually nerdy) kids (top 10 in class of 400+) typically go to UCLA or UCB - those admissions are heavily based on high GPA and test scores (strong ECs are of course needed as well, though those are often school-based). The kids who go to USC typically have slightly lower test scores but something else as well, often some special talent or involvement in major ECs outside of school (which can correlate with being more social). A few are admitted to both, they usually attend UCLA/UCB instead of USC to save money (that’s unsurprising as a public HS in a wealthy area, with many parents who have previously made the decision that they won’t pay for private HS).

USC will reject kids with top stats who get into UCLA and/or UCB because they don’t “fit” and UCLA/UCB will reject kids who end up at USC because they don’t have good enough stats to get into UCLA/UCB. That latter category of kids who end up at USC is typically in the 30-32 ACT range - you almost invariably need more than that to get into UCLA/UCB from our HS. Incidentally our results from Stanford (2-4 kids per year) aren’t dissimilar to USC - those are usually not the most academically brilliant kids, but have the best overall story (or some other hook, like a parent working there).

On the wider issue of why USC’s quoted stats are higher than UCLA, the explanation seems to be that there are lots of not great HSs in CA where kids don’t have access to (or consider doing) test prep and so their SAT/ACT scores are much lower. The best students from those schools will apply to UCB/UCLA and get in, but they won’t even consider applying to USC (or indeed any private schools). UCB/UCLA apply a significantly different standard to the expected scores for admission from wealthy areas compared to poor areas, which is why you need to have really strong scores if you live in a wealthy area. So a 4.0GPA/30ACT will get you into UCB/UCLA from the Central Valley, it won’t from the Bay Area.

697

My niece had many of the same schools on her lists. Vandy, BC, LMU, USC and Santa Clara. Ended up at U San Diego and loved it.

Niece’s best friend had all the stats similar to my niece (they even were co-officers in senior year). The friend was and is a fantastic writer. Friend’s essays were top notch. Friend also chose USD. She graduated Phi Beta Kappa, was accepted to several T-14 law schools (but picked one outside T-14), clerked for a federal judge, and is now at a big firm. This girl is from a wealthy family and money was never a barrier, but she did choose undergrad and law school because of the scholarships and opportunities offered. She’s practical and saw the benefits (not just financial) of being the big fish in the medium sized pond.

698

Anecdotally, my niece transferred out of LMU to USC, because she wasn’t a big fan of LMU.

@homerdog I continue to follow along with your journey. While there’s very little overlap between our 2021 kids, I feel ya!

699

@Publisher Surprised Pepperdine and Macalester listed as overlaps. D considering Macalester but concerned might be too over the top left, not considering Pepperdine mostly for the opposite reason.

700

@homerdog has your daughter reconsidered Lehigh?