Hopping in, as current Denison parent, to say Denison is no more party-oriented than any other LAC and that its proximity to Columbus means there is more to do than just drink on the weekends. Arts are big on campus, and there is no single student culture which dominates on campus. It has about the same greek life participation as Kenyon and both are non-residential greek life. “Naked week” is a kind of hippie/our bodies ourselves/love myself as I am/self-affirmation experience, more part of the Homestead organic farm/residential community than it is about spring break style promiscuity. Student body is about 20% first gen/low income, about 35% racial/ethnic minority. With its use of merit money which attracts “doughnut hole” middle class families, is one of the more economically diverse LACs, with more of distribution across the economic spectrum rather than just wealthy and low income.
Wanted to add that we also know LOTS of W&L graduates - it is a very popular school here. Both of our boys visited it but decided it was a bit too small for them. Again, similar applicant pool as Wake, Richmond, etc.
So, in general, safer schools are hard for us to find. Still considering some of the safer schools that seem to be on the lists of kids who apply to Wake and Richmond like Elon and Furman. She’s considering Denison. We visited with S19 and he really liked it as did I. More recently, some kids from our school have gone there but she’s ok with that crowd. After that, we are stuck. I brought up Wooster and the look on her face was like “huh”? I’m going to look at it a bit but I expect my husband will not be on board.
For a safety, we would want merit options. I’d like her to consider St Olaf. She has cousins in St Paul and that could be a draw even though it’s obviously cold there. Not sure about the religious aspect though.
It’s just not easy. I’m always amazed when kids can easily find safeties and be happy with them. I think, too, the pressure is on to find the right experience for her since s19 is thriving. There are three specific things we like about his experience that we want for D. Highly academic classes with interested professors, a community that makes it easy to find your friends, and a solid career center to guide the kids to internships and jobs. The main differences between our kids is that D wants more traditional college fun stuff to do, she’d prefer warmer weather (but not a deal breaker), and she’s not quite as bookish as S so she wants a more social environment.
I think the list is fairly complete. I am interested in her looking into Tulane now. And if anyone has brilliant ideas about safeties with merit that she won’t turn her nose up at, let me know. Honestly, if she can get to a 31 or 32, then her list is almost all matches.
She’s had her omelette and is off to the ACT. Fingers crossed!
The Fiske Guide to Colleges regarding Denison University which received a 5 Telephone rating for Social Life.:
5 Telephones for Social Life = “It can be assumed that a college with a rating of 5 telephones is something of a party school…”
Another quote from the Fiske Guide To Colleges 2020: “Students characterize campus apartment parties as “overcrowded saunas” where “binge drinking is prevalent”.”
Over a decade ago, Denison University shut down its fraternity row in order to shift the spotlight from partying to academics.
Ohio Wesleyan University also received a 5 Telephone rating for Social Life.
Kenyon College received a much tamer 3 Telephones.
Even Ohio University received less than 5 Telephones = it received 4 Telephones. 5 Telephone schools include Penn State & Arizona State University.
@dwhite we have a friend from undergrad whose daughter is at Bowdoin with S and their son is at W&L. I think he’s also having a very good experience as well. We will see it during spring break.
As for Denison, I know two freshman there and I know their moms pretty well. We plan on talking to them and walking campus with one of them when we visit. They’ll give us the true lowdown on the social life I’m sure.
I am not sure how to find an LAC that would be a safety for your daughter and give her merit…but will also check off the box “highly academic,” I am not implying that safeties can’t be academically challenging …they most certainly can. I am saying that I don’t know how to find that combination in an LAC. What about Muhlenberg? Union?
My daughter’s safety schools were bigger universities where she was accepted to the honors college.
My neighbor’s daughter had similar stats as your daughter (similar gpa for weighted and unweighted, and a 31 on the ACT, competitive HS). She wanted an LAC and was not willing to budge. Money was not an issue…at the end of the day she narrowed it down to Villanova and the honors college at the U of Delaware. Hardly an LAC!
She loved UDel and especially loved the honors program…she really felt that it gave her the academic experience she wanted within a much smaller environment. I have seen the school and it’s really nice. I think that it checks off all of your daughter’s boxes for a safety…but she has to be willing to apply to a larger school.
Denison greek life went non-residential almost 25 years ago and the former houses cannot host parties. During my student’s time at Denison, parties are mostly concentrated in the senior apartments (the “Sunnies”) and like at most schools, are hot and overcrowded. New social lodge space opened this year to get the parties out of the apartments – christened the “Moonies.” If a student wants to drink white claw and dance at a college party, it will almost certainly be hot and overcrowded. But if a student wants to attend an improv show, dance performance, film, jazz or anything else on campus, there is lots more to do, and students do participate in those other events. Families should visit, talk to students, and draw their own conclusions.
Thanks @twogirls! We are going to have to see how her testing works out. I think we will also hold off on worrying too much about safeties until after spring break. I agree that the easier route to a safety is a bigger school.
S19’s safer LACs were Kenyon and Grinnell but I don’t see D at either of those.
Union, Denison, and Dickinson s.b. pretty safe for a student with those stats and all offer merit. Dickinson, btw, has a very interesting dance scene. (Although I know this is bad geography for you.)
Remember when I said we found some real surprises by dropping in on schools near others? Well, that was one of them. Made it into the top 5 list! Ditto Union.
You probably have plenty of highly likely ideas, some where she should see merit: Denison, Dickinson, St. Olaf, Union, Franklin and Marshall, Skidmore, Trinity (CT), Connecticut College. West Coast ideas of Williamette, Whitman, Puget Sound, Occidental could work. What about Loyola Marymount? (good dance) U San Diego? I would stay away from Reed, does not seem like a good fit for her.
She might also consider some smaller size state schools as highly likelies–Miami Ohio (maybe too many kids from her school go there?), UVM, U Delaware? Pitt?
For a true safety she could stay close to home and go to Lake Forest College! Or Lawrence in Wi. Or Illinois Wesleyan.
Your daughter is really smart. Anyone capable of her GPA & earning an ACT score above 30 is intelligent.
Bucknell University, Colgate University, University of Richmond, WFU, Wash & Lee, College of Wm. & Mary, Univ. of Virginia, UNC, Dartmouth College, Vanderbilt University, Emory University, Tufts, Villanova, Univ. of Pittsburgh, SMU, Fordham University (either campus), Scripps College, Amherst College, Bowdoin, Middlebury, Williams College, Colby College, Vassar College, Skidmore College, Franklin & Marshall, St. Lawrence University, Lewis & Clark College in Portland, Oregon, Univ. of Puget Sound, Seattle University, University of Denver, any large Southern university Honors College / Program, College of Charleston Honors College, Lehigh University, Hamilton College, Grinnell College, Georgetown, University of Vermont Honors College are all options to consider.
Right now: Williams College ED may be the best bargain in the nation. Good time to apply to Bucknell University as well.
I understand the “eye candy” appeal of many LACs such as Kenyon College, Denison University, Furman, etc. One just needs to be aware of the real, semester after semester personality & character of a school in order to make an informed decision. College is too expensive to go into uninformed, in my opinion.
P.S. Just read @Mwfan1921’s post above. Agree with Loyola Marymount.
Two of my coworkers (in the northeast) have kids at the College of Charleston and they are both very happy. It’s bigger than an LAC…about 10,000 undergrads…but I do believe your daughter would make the honors college. Another safety school to consider if she is willing to apply to some bigger schools.
Since you are from the Midwest, it may be wise to focus on other geographic areas in order to enhance your daughter’s educational experience.
I did not intend the above list to be exhaustive. Davidson College & Eckerd College are both options to consider for example. But some schools have a significant male/female ratio imbalance. Is that important to your daughter ?
@homerdog I am hoping this becomes one of those legendary threads like @lindagaf 's average excellent one!
Weather aside, maybe take a look at St Olaf? It is not heavy handed on the religion, although I believe one or two courses about the history of religion (very broadly defined) may be required to graduate. Nice wholesome, Midwestern vibe, minimal drinking, pretty campus, cute town, great study abroad programs and probably a match (possible merit).
My impression of Denison was that the drinking was no worse than your average small LAC in a small town. Pretty campus, cute town, kids seemed mainstream.
If she’s open to women’s colleges, maybe look at Mount Holyoke? The consortium might be a plus.
I know a number of kids that have seriously considered or ended up attending Rhodes. It’s a CTCL school, offers merit, and is located in Memphis.
Given that she likes Vanderbilt, has she considered Emory? It’s a somewhat easier admit and if she could nudge those test scores up a bit more, she could be in range.
I’m looking forward to seeing how this unfolds.
I also think that if she could get her scores up a little…Emory can be a possibility. I mentioned earlier that she could also consider Oxford at Emory…and then slide into Emory at the end of the two years. From what I understand about Oxford…it’s somewhat unique and she has to be ok on a campus with maybe 900 students total.
I should have a W&L grad come May, and last week he signed with a high ranking finance company, so W&L is currently in my good graces.
He chose it because he liked it there, but also for $$$. He was not a Johnson scholar, but was a Robert E Lee scholar that they later switched to something else since he was from VA. It covered tuition but also came with the guarantee it would increase with any increase in tuition, so that was nice. And all other scholarships were stackable. However, I’ve never seen it mentioned on here and I don’t see the scholarship listed on their website, so I don’t know if it’s still available.
He came from a poor HS that is roughly 7% white, so it was a big change for him to be in the majority. He has mentioned that he’s noticed diversity is increasing.
Social life? He did join a frat. I wasn’t crazy about that, but it has seemed tame from far away compared to what I remember. And one of his brothers hired him for his internship last summer.
Any other questions, I can ask him. He has been quite happy there which makes mama happy, especially now he’s employed making 15% more than me and almost double his Dad. (It’s been a happy week)
Emory University is one to consider & has a great location in Atlanta (formerly Decatur), but Emory at Oxford is tiny & not in an interesting area (between Athens UGA & Atlanta).
I would recommend Emory at Oxford to a student who has fears about attending a university & needs a gentle, close knit, small environment, & time in order to make the transition from high school to college.
P.S. Unrelated to Emory & to Emory at Oxford: How important is a merit scholarship ?
@Publisher Well the discussion about merit around here goes around and around. Ideally, yes, she would find a place to love that will give some merit. That is a rough ask though. I don’t know how likely merit is at, say, Tulane or Richmond or Wake. I know the Richmond and Wake money has been hard to come by. Believe me, I know the drill. Decide the budget first. We’d love to spend less but, being full pay for S19 makes that conversation more difficult if we’d prefer to spend less money for D.
D danced ballet for 13 years until last year. I originally thought she should apply for Richmond and Wake dance scholarships, both of which allow you to apply even if you don’t major in dance. Since she’s not dancing outside of school now, and just as a pommer at school, I’m sure she’s getting rusty. It’s a very long story about why she stopped ballet but part of me thinks we should suggest to her that she finds a place to dance outside of school starting this summer so that she can get back in the swing and have a strong scholarship audition. BUT those scholarships are also so hard to come by. I think Richmond and Wake give one or two each year and I don’t know if it’s worth the time and the money to find another studio and have her dance again. Merit at either of those schools would make them a slam dunk for us.
Right now, she’s pretty focused on the Davidson, Richmond, Wake trio. I know we probably need to visit to show interest but I’m starting to think that finding schools that give merit that she might like deserve visits as well. I’ve been putting off this talk with her because the ACT is foremost on her mind right now and I feel like it makes the most sense to wait until we see what she can do in terms of a score before I talk to her about completing the list. We will have time this break to talk more.
So, we can play a little game. Knowing what I’ve shared already and assuming a 31 ACT just for yucks, which schools are a possible fit with merit? On her current list, I think it’s just Santa Clara, Denison, and Furman (which of course now I’m concerned about with the whole religion aspect). For now, I’d like to stay away from state schools. Honestly, if she’s going to go to a state school, I think she’d end up at Wisconsin or Illinois.
Dickinson
St. Olaf
U San Diego
LMU
I think these are likely merit. If anyone knows what kind of student gets merit at Tulane, let me know.