I would not disclose either. Colleges chose to go test optional this cycle because admissions officers fully understand (without being told) that students have had standardized test dates cancelled due to covid. IMO it is stating the obvious and does not provide any new/meaningful information to admissions officers.
Ok points taken. The only part I have a problem with is that any AO would think “you prepared five times and didn’t perform well”. I would never have her explain in detail how this year’s testing went for her. That was just for those thread. But, of course, kids during a pandemic whose lives have been turned upside down won’t necessarily be able to rise up and focus on standardized testing. The whole idea of TO is that AOs recognize that. Not only have I heard AOs say they know kids can’t get tests but they’ve also said that they know many kids can’t do as well now for a myriad of reasons. I assume prepping and getting cancelled on four times is in the category of why kids lose steam on this process. I understand that it doesn’t need to be spelled out. I was considering her writing just one sentence in the additional info section after hearing a former AO from a top school give that advice on a recent podcast I heard. I really don’t think it would matter if she did or did not write that sentence. I’ll talk to her more about it. We have time to decide. I do understand why some of you think it’s not necessary.
@homerdog. My friends daughter is applying to Washu and many others. She was offered fee waivers from other colleges so she reached out since every penny counts. This was their set reply and addresses test optional… Maybe this is the feeling across colleges:
We know trying to manage the college search process is challenging enough without having to navigate the disruptions and uncertainties brought on by COVID-19. We asked ourselves how we could help you and your family break down some of this year’s big topics, and we came up with the following list of important points you should understand about WashU:
- We are TRULY TEST OPTIONAL. We leave it to you to decide whether to submit test scores or not. No explanation needed. Do what works for you.
- We know that DEMONSTRATED INTEREST is on the minds of students, families, and counselors. Believe me when I say, we’re thinking about it too. Visiting our beautiful campus has always been one of the best ways to get to know us—but this year COVID-19 has changed everything. In an effort to provide a variety of alternatives to a visit, we created a lot of great virtual options like information sessions and student panels, student-led campus tours, and optional interviews. We encourage you to check out our virtual offerings and find one or two that interest you. And because Zoom fatigue is real… we don’t encourage you to try it all. Trust us when we say demonstrated interest won’t make or break your admissions decision, but know that we’re here to help, we’re eager to share all the wonderful things about WashU, and we want to learn more about you.
- We will waive your application fee if you’re applying for financial aid. Plus, we meet 100% of demonstrated financial need for all admitted students. It's easy to use your fee waiver. Simply indicate you’ve received one on your Common Application or Coalition Application.
- WE’RE HERE TO HELP YOU. If you can’t meet a deadline or if you have a question to ask, just reach out. We are flexible and understanding, and we want to make it simpler for you.
Stay safe, be well, and take a deep breath. We’ll get through this together!
Best,
Emily Almas
Assistant Vice Provost and Director of Admissions
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@Knowsstuff thanks for posting that. See, that’s what we’ve been hearing too. But then there are posters (lots of them!) who say send a score! Can’t unsee the kids who send good scores and you’re at a disadvantage if you go test optional! And all kinds of posts on CC with parents and kids asking if they should send X score. I also get the advice that D should send her scores to her safeties - why should we do that if admissions departments are writing statements like the Wash U one? (I have seen a number of colleges release statements like this.)
It’s because of statements like this that D feels just fine with going TO. It’s the advice we see here from some posters that make us think, hm, should she explain?
Our tentative plan to tell colleges that she has four cancelled tests is hatched from the anxiety I get from CC posters who think TO is a disadvantage. Maybe I just need to step away and trust in the admissions offices.
@homerdog – We’ve ‘chatted’ about this, but as right now my S is only applying to one school TO – a big reach for anyone – and he’s not going to mention difficult access to tests in Additional Info in that application. (He may add some RD reaches in Jan where he also goes TO.)
He is submitting his score to most his schools – he’s close to 50th percentile but not quite there. We really wrestled with this and honestly, it’s tough to know if this is the right call. However, he’s applying engineering and what we’ve gathered reading tea leaves is that test scores that are ‘confirming’ that a student is in range, even if they don’t enhance his application, are at least reasonable to include. For example, at one of his schools the College of Engineering was the last part of the university to go TO making me think they really didn’t want to. Maybe we are making the wrong call? I don’t know, and I guess we’ll find out. As we all know, the whole testing landscape is a minefield this year.
Anyway, for the places where he is submitting a score, he has added a short sentence in Additional Info saying he had “multiple cancellations over spring and summer” which is, of course, true!
My hope is that AOs will consider that in a normal testing year he would have had a chance to improve his score. In reality will they will think this? I have no idea. Will his slightly lower than median score ‘hurt’ him compared to similar candidates with no score? Possibly. Did I mention minefields?
It’s a good thing he likes all his schools and he’s a ‘bloom where you’re planted’ kind of kid!’ Sigh.
I see there are plenty of comments on this, but as a test prep tutor who is very knowledgeable about this whole process, here is my perspective.
I know MANY kids who have literally had tests cancelled when they showed up on site. I have been working with kids since Feb, who, through no fault of their own, STILL haven’t been able to test.
Colleges KNOW this. I see zero point in mentioning a student tried to take a test when virtually all colleges have said they aren’t considering test scores, or are going test optional.
IMO, no student deserves any extra consideration for showing up to take a test that is cancelled. Chalk the experience up to one of many things that suck about 2020. One of my students drove six hours away with a hotel booked overnight, only to have it cancelled the night before. That is a total bummer, but why does the college care? The parents asked me what I thought. And I told them honestly that if they mentioned it, it would sound entitled. How many kids don’t have the opportunity to sign up for multiple tests dates and/or pay for hotels?
If my kids were in this boat, I would encourage them to NOT add this information to that section of the app.
Just wanted to say that this sounds so hard on the kids. My son had testing burnout when things were “normal”…and his last “one more time” ACT was the lowest score.
The silver lining, I hope, is that these kids are becoming incredibly flexible and resilient. They are hitting these hard obstacles (ex: test cancellations) and carrying on. Life is dealing so many hard lessons right now but as hard as they are they are an opportunity for growth.
I think the WashU email is fantastic and even though I don’t have a dog in the race this year, I would think/hope that this is truly representative of AO’s philosophy across the country this year. @homerdog , if your D is happy with her decision to go TO and not report attempts/cancellations, then yes, leave it, and let her feel good about making a decision (IMO a good one) and moving on.
Sympathies to all those in the cycle this year!!! Hang in there!!!
I think part of the issue for us is that most seniors in Illinois (and all seniors at our high school) took an in-school SAT in Sept that is required by the state for graduation. So colleges will know she took that test. I know some kids opted out but, really, hardly any did that. So there’s this worry that she will be head to head with kids from our school with a score and, also, that AOs might wonder what’s up with her test score from that day. So, it’s not all about not getting a test. We just have to hope that AOs are being honest when they say they are ok with any kind of student going TO and won’t read anything into a TO application when they know the student got at least one test.
I wouldn’t include it. I agree that people on cc completely forget how the multiple test sittings and and months of prep is all signs of informed/entitled students. Most students aren’t taken 4-5 tests - or 7-8 between the ACT/SAT - they’re just not. I don’t for a minute think that any AO is going to be thinking, oh yes I want to admit this student as they would have eventually got to a 1500 with enough chances/prep - and that’s absolutely how that sentence sounded.
They are being honest. Why wouldn’t they be? You have to believe them. Step away and trust the admissions office, as you said.
They aren’t going to check that she did a test back in September just because she lives in Illinois. They aren’t going to think “Hmm, Sally goes to the same school and has a score. Why doesn’t homerdog’s D?”
The score or lack of one isn’t going to make a difference between admit and deny when colleges are test optional. At least, not this year. Maybe never again, either. I think tests are going the way of the dodo. Not a bad thing, even if it puts me out of a job.
I feel the same way, and have to remind myself sometimes to step away from CC and to trust what the AOs are saying, as well as the handful of helpful CC members such as @Lindagaf who have years of knowledge and experience with college admissions. Test scores are just a data point and you have to wonder how accurate they are this year anyway with kids who are burnt out from studying (or not studying at all) for tests that may or may not happen, testing in masks, etc. You and your D have worked hard to find schools she’d thrive at. Her academic record, ECs, essays etc will show her fit.
@Lindagaf It’s interesting though. It took a pandemic for colleges to say that they can evaluate applications without scores and why? Because otherwise they would have very few candidates. And, when you look at common data sets, so many schools say test scores are “important” or “very important”. So which is it? I’ve heard AOs on podcast say that they’ve never put as much emphasis on test scores as parents and students think they do and that sounds insincere because they TELL us on the CDS that they are important. We can see they count when you look at Naviance charts and when you see a schools’ middle 50% range of scores. I can see why students and parents are a little wary. If a school gets a lot of TO applicants, of course they will take a lot of them. They have to. I wonder if schools will ever tell us how many students they accept TO.
It’s also pretty well known that, even for TO schools like Wake or Bowdoin, they kind of expect kids from high SES backgrounds to send a test. UChicago flat out said they changed to TO so that more URMs would apply so it never was the same TO rules for everyone.
So here is my take and I will address your post below also. Yes, I am one of those posters that says it’s hard NOT to see a submitted score. I am helping a few people but one specially is a family friend’s daughter. Goes to one of the top CPS schools selective enrollment. As a junior got a 34 ACT and 1520 SAT with tutoring. She retook the SAT this year since she did the SAT on her own so with her class. She DID have the option of either taking it then within 3 days to cancel her score or take it with the Juniors in April so it basically wouldn’t count since she was happy with her score. She wanted to test herself without studying for the SAT and got a 1510 with super score of 1560 according to her mother. She’s the kid that has 8 AP with 5s and her essay is brilliant, great Ec’s. 4.0 unweighted.
So how does a AO not look at these scores? So they look at GPA and class rigor first. Then at Test scores. Then Ecs seems to be the trend on lots of CDS I have seen. Then teacher references. Maybe they will lump the kids from each school into those with and those without test scores??? Or compare them to their region? Will they have time to do this?
Please remember that those reviewing the application are human being’s. Until we have robots do this and take out our personal emotions I think this is what we are stuck with.
Saying this I really think you make the strongest application possible, that has not changed. Regardless of having/not having certain scores, I think any reader after 5 minutes can determine the fit for the applicant to their schools. I think the ACT/SAT will go to the waste side in the coming years and personally never liked the tests but that is for another thread.
In short, your daughter will be fine. As most students she will get accepted, rejected and waitlisted from some great colleges. Good Luck to her.
True, @homerdog . But then along came Covid.
ETA: Not even kids from high income areas can rely on tests to boost their apps. Not when there is no control over who gets to take it and who doesn’t. I had two kids at the same high school turn up on the same day for the SAT. Kid A got in, Kid B was turned away. Why? A proctor called in sick, and bam, a bunch of kids had nowhere to test.
NO…even according the Jeff (forgot his name) that just wrote a book on this subject, he states that all they care about is the last/highest score. So a 34 is a 34 period. I have more evidence of this also but will leave it at that.
Sure if you send a 34 all they care about is a 34. I’m making the point that stating you tried to take the test 4-5 times does not add to the application when you send no score.
@Darcy123 this is kind of neither here nor there but D didn’t plan on taking the tests four or five times. She had that many sittings because I just grabbed as many seats as I could as soon as they were available to buy. I knew there was a chance some or all of them could be cancelled so I just tried to get her as many options as possible.
Got it.
While I certainly hope the OPs daughter gets into everywhere she applies (she seems like a highly-capable student and she deserves to have great options), I am of the opinion that mentioning the attempts to take the test 4-5 times and being unable to do so is heavily implying that she was unable to take the SAT and in this situation it is deceitful to do so as she took it many times.
I also think the colleges will not dwell on the fact she submits TO, so do not teach your daughter that it is ok to bend the truth.
Yeah ok. I don’t think it’s bending the truth but we aren’t going to acknowledge the test cancellations at this point. The cancellations definitely affected her ability to score as well as she could have on the test. I’m certainly not teaching her to bend the truth. It’s just facts and I didn’t read anything into it like so many of you do.