Regarding test optional. Wake and Bowdoin were mentioned in a previous post. When my kids were applying, our guidance counselor (who worked in college admissions prior at a top lac), said TO is not the same at every school. (I’m making this point about previous admissions cycles, not the current one).She specifically made the point between Bowdoin and Wake. Said the policy at Bowdoin was in place to attract applicants from underprivileged backgrounds/schools, while the policy at Wake was more for stats purposes. So the point is different school have different agendas.
Now I think this year TO is much different, but there still might be differences in approaches. Schools won’t hold it against an applicant if they don’t submit scores, but if you do submit that will be part of the analysis, so if it enhances your app, then send them. I haven’t seen a school that says they won’t accept scores, that would be a different situation altogether.
Reminds me of the old SAT subject test dilemma. Some schools would not look at them, but for schools where they were optional, if they enhance your application they could be helpful.
I think @AlmostThere2018 should send scores and @homerdog should send to the safeties and possibly some matches. Remember it’s not a computer making these admit decisions, it’s people who despite the TO policies can have biases even if they believe they are being totally fair.
Yes. Excellent analysis. Schools like Michigan as an example want as much of the “regular” things as possible but if you can’t then they will look at other items as a substitute like psat scores, papers, etc etc but if you have the goods(scores) that is what they want first and foremost. As you stated, it’s human’s looking at all of this. Again branding the application to show the full person applying has not changed at all.
@Homerdog, you’ve mentioned that your D’s high school is one of the most rigorous in the nation and that D’s rigor and grades match the kids who all get over 1500 from her school. I think going TO (and not mentioning the testing) will help your D. I believe the schools she’s applying to are going to like her geographic diversity and the rest of her app. I think TO let’s schools take kids like your D this year, who obviously can do the work and would be a good fit but just don’t test great. (Which is why there’s so much debate about the worth of testing on the first place). I wouldn’t worry about this for another second.
I understand @homerdog - just providing my perspective on how the sentence read.
I would go TO if she wants and not think about it. Providing extra info about testing is really stating what is already known…that everybody had difficulty with testing. I think it comes across as whiny (not accusing) given that everybody has/had these issues. I would send the scores when appropriate…and skip the rest (TO).
Will they delve further and say…hmmm…does she have one test and chose not to send it? Why didn’t she? Did she try and take another test and could not? Does she have two tests? What were her test scores from the tests she took? I doubt it. I seriously doubt they will put a lot of thought into her tests. I think they will assess her based on what she presents in her application. Either they like it…or they don’t. Honestly…I don’t think they will care much about the reasons behind her TO…so why include them? They know this is a tough year. They also know she lives in a wealthy district. Why draw attention to a few sentences that likely won’t help? I actually think going TO with no explanation helps…it makes her look confident.
I didn’t realize she applied (or might apply?) to Lehigh. IMO your D will provide them with the geographic diversity that they desire.
It’s now time to trust the system…and embrace the acceptances. I am sure she will have several!
@wisteria100 , I live in an area where virtually all students would be expected to take the SAT or ACT. I gave examples earlier of students being unable to take tests, despite best efforts.
Colleges are going to see a big increase in kids applying w/o test scores, from areas where they would normally expect all applicants to submit them. I think at least for this cycle, the TO student isn’t going to be disadvantaged. Frankly, if they favor the kids submitting tests over the kids without, I think they will have a smaller pool of highly qualified applicants, assuming the school is very selective.
@homerdog Interesting, at my D’s school they put all standardized test results on the transcript so while you can apply TO, the PSAT/SAT I and II/ACT scores would still remain visible. I wonder if students going TO can have that information removed for the purpose of college applications this year?
@wisteria100 Aside from the UC system, the only school I’ve heard about that is test blind for this year is Dickinson College. And National Merit Foundation is also test blind for a confirming score this year.
@havenoidea I didn’t re
There was a big panic when standardized test scores were out on transcripts a few years back. People stormed the state capital. Lol. No scores on transcripts now.
@homerdog I would double check on that - we also are at a highly competitive school in Illinois and I was told that is no longer done.
As for test optional my daughter has a score we are submitting but of her friend pool most are taking advantage of TO to apply even to reaches. Many of them have older siblings who applied the ‘traditional’ way and their parents are all struggling as you are @homerdog with the fact if they will truly honor this. As if this entire process isn’t stressful enough!!
@homerdog, I see your D has Denver on her list. Has she looked into the dance (particularly ballet) options there? I think they’d be a good fit for S otherwise but I haven’t brought it up to him because I haven’t heard them mentioned on any of the dance threads, assumed they didn’t have much.
Correct. Test scores for Illinois kids are not on their transcript. I confirmed and I have a copy of D’s transcript that was sent!
Denver ticks a lot of boxes but not the dance one unfortunately. They have a dance “team” that dances at football and basketball games. Maybe D would do that. They aren’t that good though. Lol. I feel like dance would go by the wayside if she ended up there. Hopefully, she would pick up other pursuits that interest her. Dance is a way for her to meet new friends and do something she really enjoys but she wasn’t planning on majoring or minoring in it. Her level of involvement would be different at each of the schools on her list depending on what they offer.
As an aside, within the past week I read an article on the Best Cities To Live In in the US. Three of the top 5 ranked cities were in Colorado (#1 Boulder, #2 Denver, and #4 Colorado Springs. #3 was listed as Austin, Texas. I do not recall which city was #5.)
P.S. #5 was Fort Collins, Colorado.
Source: 150 Best Places To Live in the U.S. in 2020-21 by US News
https://realestate.USNews.com/places/rankings/best-places-to-live
@Publisher the city of Denver is a huge plus for DU. We’ve vacationed in CO quite a bit and have family there and it’s awesome. Sunny. Temperate. The university is near a light rail system stop that takes you right into lots of cool places in the city. We always thought the people of Denver feel very Midwestern to us and laid back. All good stuff.
I am familiar with Boulder, Denver, and Colorado Springs, and have been to Fort Collins on several occasions. In my opinion, the ranking of the Colorado cities is correct. If you have not visited Boulder, I encourage you to do so. Sophisticated and wealthy, yet still a great college town.
I checked a couple of weeks ago, the average home price in Boulder is one million dollars. A bargain compared to Aspen, but much higher priced than Fort Collins (home to Colorado State University).
Interesting Fact: The Home Depot store in Boulder is the highest grossing Home Depot per square foot in the nation.
P.S. If asked to make one broad statement about people in Boulder & Denver, it would be that everyone seems happy.
P.P.S. One of my good friends used to President of the University of Denver. Now he lives in New Zealand & in Aspen. ( He is also responsible in large part for the development of the high tech industry in Colorado.)
Earlier in this thread, I suggested that your daughter consider DU & SMU. DU is similar to SMU in several respects, but without the aspect that was unattractive to you at SMU about sorority life.
@homerdog If you come to visit Denver, you HAVE to look me up! I will gladly show you all around. Denver is a great school and has so many resources and benefits. If only it wasn’t so close to home for us our kids would consider it. Maybe for grad school…
The UC system is “test optional,” not “test blind.”
You must check by campus, for example, UC Santa Cruz is “test blind,” while UCLA is “test optional.”
Note – no football at DU. Not sure what they’re referencing there if that’s what their info says.
Ah ok. I just saw a dance team and assumed they were for both sports but looks like just basketball.
Colorado Ballet isn’t far from DU if dance options off campus are an option.