D3 Athletics and ROTC

Colleges and Universities A-Z Service Academy Parents
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<p>Long time member, but first time poster in this Forum area, so I am a bit of a noob with regards to ROTC. I guess this would be the best place to put this thread, but if the Mods determine a better fit then so be it...</p>

<p>Some background on goaliegirl (for those of you who haven't followed my posting history - most of you):</p>

<p>Going to a NE Prep school (on signifcant FA); 11th grade; B+ student taking almost all honors classes plus APUSH. Taking SAT and ACT next month; Not a good standardized test taker, so I'll make a conservative estimate of an 11th grade score of 1100/1600 or 24 ACT on first attempt. Would hope to see 1200 or 27 next year. Has played Varsity Hockey and Field hockey 3 years; JV Lax 2 years and will probably bump to Varsity this spring. Is a borderline D1/D3 Ice Hockey goalie recruit. Not decided as to what she wants to study in college - possibilities range from athletic training to criminal justice. Knows that she doesn't want a desk job for a career - enjoys being active. A very get-along go-along type and works well with others, but is quiet. Leads by example more than by persuasion, but inspires a lot of loyalty among teammates. </p>

<p>So in talking to my DW last week, she mentions that she would be interested in joining the military. She seems to like the active lifestyle, likes the part of being part of a larger team, has a sense of duty to community, thinks of the structured disciplined lifestyle as a plus, plus it gives her time to decide what she wants to do with the rest of her life (I think she is a bit worried about the indecision about what to study). ROTC was discussed as a preferred option (school first then military) which seems to be a good choice to all.</p>

<p>She also loves her sports and in particular ice hockey. Given that D1 is definitely off the table (it would be a crapshoot anyways) with ROTC, we then turn to D3 womens ice hockey as an option. The list of D3 colleges with women's hockey are as follows (excuse the poor formatting):</p>

<p>Adrian Amherst Augsburg Bentley Bethel
Bowdoin Buffalo St. Castleton St. Chatham Colby
Concordia (MN) Concordia (WI) Conn. College Cortland St. Elmira
Finlandia Gustavus Adolphus Hamilton Hamline Lake Forest
Manhattanville Middlebury MIT Neumann Norwich New England Coll
Norwich Oswego St. Plattsburgh St. Plymouth St. Pottsdam St.
RIT Salve Regina Southern Maine St. Benedict St. Catherine
St. Mary (MN) St. Michaels St. Norbert St. Olaf St. Thomas
Trinity U Mass Boston Utica Wesleyan Williams
Wisc. Eau Claire Wisc. River Falls Wisc. Stevens Pt. Wisc. Superior</p>

<p>It is my understanding that many ROTC units encourage athletic participation. Coaches who work well with ROTC may be another question at many campuses. </p>

<p>The good news is that a lot of these schools have ROTC offerings. The bad news from what I've been able to research is that only Plattsburgh, Norwich, Wisc. River Falls, and Wisc. Stevens Pt. are the only ones to host a unit on their own campus (please let me know if I missed any). And I think it is a bit much to ask her not only to play D3 athletics, but to commute for ROTC on top of it in snow (she has very limited driving experience, none of which is in snow - we live in the south) is a bit much. </p>

<p>And from my basic research on the schools in this short list, she can consider them all either match or safety from an admissions perspective. :)</p>

<p>Now Norwich obviously stands out with its setup as being very friendly to what goaliegirl would like to do. I can't speak for the others on that short list, but any of you who know, please chime in.</p>

<p>So for my first question, should I have her focus primarily on the 4 schools listed or should I expand the list to allow the commute for ROTC classes/activities?</p>

<p>Second question, I'm not sure how much (if any) ROTC placement my D's school has (she is supposed to talk to her advisor about this today), so I being of a belt and suspenders persuasion, have an interest in monitoring the process. Where do I start?</p>

<p>From what I've read, the whole scholarship (we do need FA) process starts in the summer. I haven't found a good timeline as to when to do things. Can someone provide one (or a link)?</p>

<p>Next issue, the physical. Now being a 3-sport athlete, you'd think goaliegirl wouldn't have an issue. But if my research is correct, she is a little over the maximum weight for her height. Two things cause this. First, despite being about 5' 5" she needs to wear a mens medium t-shirt because her shoulders (she calls them man-shoulders LOL), don't fit a small. Her second issue causing the higher than normal weight is her legs. Goaltending requires a rather different set of muscles than most sports. Let's just say she buys pants based upon whether her thighs will fit, not her waist (although she could use to lose a few there - not a thing for a father to mention, though). By most fitness measures (body fat composition) she would look good and when people guess her weight, they alwasy come about 20 lbs under what the scale says. My question is how do I manage this potentially touchy subject? BTW, when she is home, she does a lot of working out including weights, agility (ladders), and 2-mile runs, so it is not exactly like she is a couch potato.</p>

<p>Next question... Best guides for how to approach the ROTC scholarship process - any suggestions?</p>

<p>I'm sure there will be more, but for now to give you perspective, both of us are OK with ROTC, although there is no history in the family, but there isn't any competitive athletic history either and we've been supportive of that endeavor as well.</p>

<p>Thanks in advance.</p>

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<p>Wow. She sounds like she's solid -- and I'm not talking about the physical stuff, but the attitudes/values you mentioned about team work, service, inspiration of loyalty and so-on. You should be proud!</p>

<p>Here are a couple of quick points from the perspective of one who looked at this route (the ROTC part, not women's hockey) as a fall-back option for service academies (my son has an appointment to USAFA).</p>

<p>There are several aspects about the ROTC process, and they are different whether Army, Navy, Air Force. One is they are run through the recruitment part of the Service, unlike the service academies. I only say this because you have to insure you're getting good info, and it might not be what you are told by a Recruiter. For example, my son had a day where all the recruiters came to school, one saw him in a Marine t-shirt (he went to the Naval Academy Summer Seminar) and struck up a conversation. When told that he had applied to the academies, the recruiter said "but this will make your college free." So, it is best to get your information directly from A/AF/N ROTC units where you can. </p>

<p>You should check out all the options, but one thing is how each allots their "scholarships." Some are 4 year, some 3 year. Some maybe be "tiered" by the major -- engineering and technical majors get 4 years, soft majors maybe 3 -- but each program, and sometimes at the unit level as well, may be different. I say "scholarship" because as some may point out, the paperwork you sign if you accept one is similar to a loan application -- you have a pay-back obligation that you should understand, should your daughter decide "this isn't for me."</p>

<p>Last, even the best ROTC scholarships ordinarily will not include dorms/meal plans -- although with some schools, the local units have arrangements for this aspect of college to be provided as well. They work with their schools for other FA and it may be that with your daughter's hockey skills they can do more, although there may be other NCAA rules that could intrude that I'm unaware of -- but it is usually on a school (ROTC unit) basis. You might also check out United</a> States of America Service Academy Forums - Powered by vBulletin which has a whole section on ROTC plus public and private military colleges.</p>

<p>There are lots of exceptions to the above, and others with greater experience will have more input, or even point out my errors -- no problem! But, those are some of the things we learned and you might look at as you try to understand the process. Best of luck!</p>

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<p>


</p>

<p>When a candidate exceeds the weight standard for their height, the Army uses body-fat as a determination of fitness for service. </p>

<p>For females, the formula is:</p>

<p>% body fat = 163.205 x log10(waist + hip - neck) - 97.684 x log10(height) - 78.387.</p>

<p>I believe the US Army Standard for women (Initial Accession) 17-20 years old is 30% max.</p>

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<p>She might want to check out UMass. They are D-1 ACHA not NCAA. They also have Army ROTC on site.</p>

<p>As far as Norwich - she should know that it's a military school. If that appeals to her it could be a great fit.</p>

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<p>If she wants to apply for Army rotc the website is GoArmy.com</a> > Army ROTC > Overview. Scroll down and there is a link for scholarships. She can apply in late summer - before the senior year. That way she can get her interviews out of the way. She should have 5 or 6 schools in mind.</p>

<p>here is a link for weight standards:
Army</a> Weight Charts for Females</p>

<p>Army ROTC:
Cross town agreements - you can look and see how far away the host school is. Many times the courses are taught at the campus where the student is in school and they only have to travel for labs. It all depends but there is a question to ask. sometimes the host school is close - e.g. Amherst goes to UMASS - Amherst. other times it's quite a hike.</p>

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<p>NROTC application opens up May 1st.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the replies!</p>

<p>The link from RaptorDad was particularly useful. Lots of stuff to read there.</p>

<p>I'm still a bit worried about the weight issue, as in the application, there is an additional column for ROTC which for females has lower weights - about 9 lbs for her height (higher for males, though). Additionally its says
[quote]
As part of your medical evaluation, you must weigh less than the maximum allowable weight for your height. See page 18 for the allowable weight for
scholarship recipients.

[/quote]
It does not say that they will do a body fat content test. </p>

<p>There may be a few cross town situations that may work out without the use of a vehicle. I've got to look at them carefully. One that comes to mind is UMass Boston that operates out of BU. Public transportation may work there. If you are suggesting 5 or 6 school, I guess I had better get looking at maps.</p>

<p>I'm not sure if she would go for ACHA hockey, as there is a big drop off in talent there from D3, much more than in men's hockey as there just isn't the numbers womens hockey.</p>

<p>As to Norwich, I don't think the Military School is an issue. When she was looking at boarding schools 3 years ago, Culver (while not military on the girls side) was high on her list, except there was a crowd in net one year ahead of her. In many ways, I think being a part of the larger culture may be a benefit as well to her.</p>

<p>I noticed the suggestion that the application process should be started in the summer. Probably a good idea considering the college apps that will be necessary in addition to the ROTC application. All the more reason to find schools sooner.</p>

<p>Now about timing. Let's say she finishes the application in early summer. When can they call her in for interview and DODMERB? I ask because she will be at a boarding school 1000+ from home from September on and logistics may become an issue. Is there an advantage of doing the interview at one of the schools on the list, or does it matter?</p>

<p>And while asking questions about the selection process, I've seen things about where your application is processed. Can somebody explain?</p>

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<p>My advice - don't worry about the weight. they will tape her if necessary.</p>

<p>When she applies next summer - the application is online. Once she completes the online application and has her transcripts sent in Cadet Command will send in her name to DoDMERB to schedule her exam. The earlier she applies, the earlier she will have the exam. They will tell her where to go - if you need the provider changed then just call them but some providers require a parent if the student is under 18.
The application is actually open now so she can get started anytime.</p>

<p>For some cross town situations a car may be helpful but the kids I have known who have done it manage - they get rides and the officers really try and help out a lot.
Part of "fit" is environment - how would she feel being one of a very few cadets in her school? or would she rather be a part of a bigger group. Having a car might be a lot more convenient in the third and fourth years when more time is demanded of cadets and they get leadership positions.</p>

<p>The application - she applies online and it is reviewed by Cadet command HQ. She needs to put in a list of school and will have to schedule an interview with a professor of military science. Periodically through the year the boards meet and award scholarships. each battalion is awarded a certain number and they place you into a school. Getting accepted to that school is independent of receiving a scholarship.</p>

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<p>Ok, setting aside any weight issues (it is what it is)...</p>

<p>Lets say she gets an application done at the end of the school year. No need to do it any earlier as I suspect the Army will want a complete Junior year transcript. Plus it gives her time to come up with a list of schools and get a fitness test. </p>

<p>At that point, the Army will contact you and tell you to report for a DODMERB at a location near your home. Hopefully, they will understand summer home is 1000 miles from school and schedule it during the summer. Otherwise we have to ask for a provider change. If we can hit a 12 week target of summer for that, there is no logistical issue having a parent present for a physical here at home.</p>

<p>The interview with a PMS probably can be handled while she is at school, as there is at least one school within an hour of her campus that has ROTC. I guess it doesn't matter which school's PMS conducts the interview, although I think there would be someone at school who would be willing to drive her as far as Norwich (90 minutes IIRC) if that would be of benefit. </p>

<p>I am not too worried about admissions, as we agree that she isn't looking at any reach schools being a varsity athlete. Adding ROTC committment wouldn't help at a reach school either. I am familiar with admissions, as lets say I work within the industry. Being a recruitable athlete at a match school = admissions.</p>

<p>Then like everyone else, it is waiting for boards...</p>

<p>Good point about fit at schools with a minimal ROTC presence. It will be a discussion point during her upcoming spring break.</p>