D3 "Recruiting"

Parents Forum
1

<p>Why is it that when I research the selective schools D would like to attend their out of state population may be 50-77-90% but their women's basketball team is from a three block radius of the campus? And if it is as simple a lack of recruiting budget, limited trips, and contacts, why is it not possible that one of these for profit recruiting services that incessantly tout themselves to kids like D and parents like me would be useful?</p>

<p>D gets a number of letters for a junior but without many exceptions they have all been from D1 schools. Why is that? She might ride the pine at a decent D1 school but unless she has a 4 inch growth spurt she won't play . Now she would start tommorrow at some small D3's we've seen . The only D3 contacts she had have been initiated by her and have consisted of fill out this form ,do you have a tape ,what is your school coach's name, and your summer coach's name. Which we are happy to provide. My point is, if you live in Texas and your D wants to play in the Northeast or Midwest at a D3 school, how do you do that?</p>

<p>My only solution so far is to fly her up to the Northeast or Midwest or wherever this spring and summer and find out where the greatest assemblage of coaches will be watching one of these showcases. Showcases where indivdual girls show up, are placed on a team, and play 2 -3 games before an audience of college coaches. Barring that I have no ideas other than to naively hope that one of the ten schools D likes will like her from afar. But their rosters do not bear that out. (Ivies have such a large pull that they maintain their geographic diversity on their women's basketball teams to a larger extent than others. But at the selectivity level D is looking at most often , top of the merit aid schools, that can not be said as convincingly.)</p>

2

<p>My S just sent a sports resume and newspaper clippings especially from state and filled out on line recruitment apps. He had plenty of opportunities amd interest. he also sent a letter from his coach and had one of his HS coaches offer to call his favorite school if he wanted. He just used a book on sports resume's. Once accepted he stayed with a teammate and visited classes.</p>

3

<p>I'm not an expert on NCAA athletics, but I believe the Div. III recruiting rules require ALL contact to be initiated by the student, not the school. So the school can't talk turkey with a recruit until the recruit contacts the school/coaches.</p>

<p>Obviously, there are some way around this...by passing along a suggestion that "you should contact Coach So and So...". That would explain the local recruits.</p>

4

<p>I'm pretty sure that most of it is exactly what you cite, with smaller budgets and smaller staffs being most important. Proximity is important. Even at selective schools most of the regular student population is from the region (if not the neighborhood) so it makes sense that the athletes reflect that as well. And I suspect that the coaches have the same problem you see for your D . . it's easier for a coach to make a strong impression on a local athlete than on a distant one. </p>

<p>Your showcase idea is a good one, but in today's world a coach can make some reasonable assumptions about a player from stats, film and some knowledge of the strength of her program, league, state etc. If those things line up you will get a good response from those Midwestern and Northeastern schools.</p>

5

<p>
[quote]
I'm not an expert on NCAA athletics, but I believe the Div. III recruiting rules require ALL contact to be initiated by the student, not the school. So the school can't talk turkey with a recruit until the recruit contacts the school/coaches.

[/quote]
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<pre><code> I'm not an expert either, and things vary from sport to sport, but I know that my son was contacted by a number of D3 coaches without making prior contact. We are on the west coast, they were in the south, northeast, west. The contact came as a result of showcases, college camps, tournaments in several different states (west, southwest, Florida). Almost all of the D3 contact, however, came in the late summer and fall of the senior year, whereas D1 letters started in the fall of the junior year.
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<p>It sounds like your daughter is a junior? If so, and if she is already getting D1 letters in her junior year, I think that is a very good sign that she will get a lot of D3 attention too. But the D3 coaches, in our experience, did their serious recruiting in the fall of the senior year.<br>
Try to be sure she gets exposure at national events this summer or whenever that sport does such events. The D3 coaches won't really pursue much, until fall of senior year, but she may well be on their list. She can send them an occasional email or letter reminding them of her interest, or following up on any summer camps they might have at their school.</p>

<pre><code> Best of luck, with polite and persistent contact by your daughter to the coach, you should be getting some feedback. Then, if a coach sends a questionnaire or requests a tape or a coach's recommendation, be sure to get those things done fairly promptly.

Looking at the rosters as you are doing can be very informative in helping to determine whether your daughter would be a good fit.  However, do consider whether she would be comfortable playing at a school where all the players are local; if she is the only out-of-stater, that might be a bit hard.  A visit to campus and an overnight or two with some team members of her top choices might help to get a sense of this.

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6

<p>I thought D1 wasn't allowed to contact the kid until June after junior year. I know that is the rule for the Ivys and I thought it was true in the rest of D1. They have ways of getting around it- i.e. writing to the kid in care of their high school coach.<br>
D3 doesn't give money for athletics, which is why your daughter may not have heard as much so far. I'm sure you will get lots of interest if she is a good player and can meet the admission standards for the D3 schools.
Karen</p>

7

<p>I think the best way for d3 is to fill out the forms and let them know your interested and then go from there. The for profit recruiting services can do just a little more than your doing. Its more of process where you pick a school where you fit in based on academics and how you blend in as a person, and sports are the icing on the cake</p>

<p>the only recruiting tool d3's have is that they can get a student admission if they are below the normal admissions profile. Even then for schools like Williams Amherst Bowdoin they limit the athletic departments to 60 of theses types of admissions a year (14 of which go to football) the other 46 are divided amount the other 29 ncaa sports</p>

<p>the recruiting budgets are small and they rely on thier own internal network of high school and local coaches</p>

<p>there are no national letters of intent kids can say yes I am going to your school and then not show unlike d1 where there are consequences for not keeping your word </p>

<p>I honestly feel you have to choose a d3 based on other factors besides sports. Sports can be a factor or the tie breaker but never the primary reason for attending</p>

<p>also in your daughters case this is a busy time of year for a basketball coach they have to run thier program coach practice scout the opposition manage the girls on the current team AND take the time to recruit so you have to sell yourself to them to some degree</p>

8

<p>The NCAA does indeed allow Div 3 colleges to recruit including practices such as official on-campus visits. Like Div 1 universities, Div 3 colleges may not initiate direct telephone or home visits before the completion of the students junior year. The reason more students are not actively recruited by Div 3 colleges is because of butget constraints.</p>

9

<p>I appreciate the responses. Some have confirmed what we had already heard, or suspected. I really appreciate Patient's response as I was unsure when most recruiting action occurs with D3. Fortunately for D , she is unlikely to need much of a hook at any school outside the top 20 to make up for academic deficiencies. </p>

<p>Let me try it this way, clumsy and clunky as it is. Assume a Texas All-District First Team Junior Basketball player who is number one in her class with an all honors, a/p, or dual-credit courseload from a 3A (out of 5A) high school in a District with the regional champion, and another state ranked team (read-quality competition). Assume further that there are 10 specific schools in the D3 classification that she is seriously interested in strewn from Arkansas and Iowa to Maine. We can assume that there may be as many as 50 more LAC's and small uni's that she would love based on what we have seen statistically, in guidebooks ,or on-line, we just don't know which fifty. (I mean she doesn't seriously consider any of the Claremont Colleges but if the coach called? Who knows? ) Assume further that in the showcases she has attended she has performed well in front of regional coaches. Assume further that she has no interest in staying in this region. And finally assume I know what I'm talking about when I say D1, major conference D1 that is, is not going to happen.(I'm her Dad, I love her. It ain't there.) She knows about info sheets and tapes and resumes for a school you know about, but nobody sends that stuff to 60 schools do they? I don't know, sports is a pretty big part of her life and while it will NOT trump academics ,it will certainly sway her decision between 2 otherwise equal schools, and could bump a school up a notch in her estimation if she loved the coach, other girls, and the program.</p>

<p>What would you parents of a kid like this recommend they do? (I have just purchased a 150 page "magazine" about Texas high school basketball that supposedly gets read by the coaches at least regionally. Boosters of high schools have taken out full -page ads touting a particular child's awards , statistics,and honors AND academic standing, while barely mentioning go tigers or something . Gee, I didn't know that was happening.)</p>

10

<p>We went about this exactly the opposite way from the way you are suggesting - child wanted D3, but in a different sport. We picked out the schools FIRST (actually it came down to ONE first choice - all others were a far, far distant second), then visited the team and coach, spent the night with a team member, etc. Child got in ED.</p>

<p>Couldn't your D narrow down the schools instead of just thinking she could love any one of 50 or so? Could help.</p>

<p>My two cents - worked for us!</p>

11

<p>I am not sure why you are pursuing a college that requires your daughter to play sports. Is it because you think she doesn't have an academic hook? My D's SAT scores were rather dismal but because she had many EC's she got a look-see at Carnegie Mellon and got in virtually due to the fact that they needed girls!! It is really tough to maintain a merit scholarship while playing sports in a top-notch school...some schools have minimum GPA requirements to remain scholarship eligible. If she has her heart set on a "humanities" education, some of the techie schools have some good reputations and they are ALWAYS looking for girls! Just a thought....</p>

12

<p>Voronwe, the post said she had ten specific schools already to do just what you did,exactly. What if NONE of them came through, none felt she fit what they needed this year , or they just took 4 girls at her position last year? I'm glad it worked out for you but I'm unwilling to be that fatalistic about the process when there may be some reasonable pro-active steps to take.</p>

13

<p>I'd like to address the impact of student athletes on the colleges themselves. Being a grad of OSU, the Maurice Clarett "situation" demonstrates the seamy underbelly of college athletics. However the negative impacts of athletics may be most significant at the Div 3 level! </p>

<p>Huh??? Lets talk about numbers. Ohio State has an undergrad population of about 35,000 and fields 28 varsity teams with approximately 800 athletes, ie 2.3% of the student population. Randomly selected Princeton and Williams field 36 and 32 varsity with about 740 and 680 athletes respectively. Thus approximately 16% of the P'ton student body and 33% of the Williams student body participate in varsity athletics. So, it terms of relative numbers the potential negative impact of athletics is potentially greatest at Williams and least at Ohio State.</p>

<p>Whoa Originaloog, the athletes at Williams and Princeton are truely "student athletes" while those at Ohio State are mercenaries at best, indentured slaves at worst. Well I suggest that you read "The Game of Life" published by Princeton University Press and authored by Shulman and Bowen, former President of Princeton. Using the huge Mellon Foundation data base which tracked the graduates of selective colleges for decades, they found that in the early 60's and earlier, Div 3 college athletes were largely unrecruited student athletes. That is a quaint myth today however. Using any parameter selected(SAT scores, class rank, graduation %ages, participation in other college activities, career outcomes, post grad public service, alumni participation, monetary giving to alma mater), the student athletes significantly underperformed, most times by significant amounts. Then look has what happened to women student athletes since adoption of Title IX. Prior to adoption, approximately 9% of coed student athletes were in the bottom 20% of their class. Now approximately 30% are in the bottom 20%. This seems to demonstrate the negative impacts of recruiting upon the quality of the student athlete. And before you jump to conclusions and blame the relative prominence of URM's in sports like f'ball and b'ball, the biggest SAT score differential occured in men's ice hockey followed by wrestling.</p>

<p>I have read a study associated with LAC's like Allegheny and Earlham which indicated that varsity athletes at these less selective colleges actually outperform their peers with respect to graduation rates and only slightly underperformed with respect to SAT scores. Their dbase was sufficiently large to lend credence to their study.</p>

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<p>First, congrats to your daughter on her terrific academic and athletic accomplishments ... you must be very proud! The advice given has been very good. I want to second a couple of the comments ...
* First, in DIII (especially not near home) I would expect contact to usually start with the athlete.
* Second, I would also recommend first figuring which DIII schools might be of interest (location, size, academics (your daughter could aim high), campus, etc) which should shrink the list ... and then I'd contact coaches (BTW I see nothing wrong with contacting a lot of schools other than the high volume of replies you'll probably get)
*Finally, here are a couple web-sites that might help
... <a href="http://www.ncaa.org%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.ncaa.org&lt;/a> ... explains the recriuting rules by sport by division (and they do vary a lot)
... <a href="http://www.d3hoops.com%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.d3hoops.com&lt;/a> ... has something on all DIII programs</p>

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<p>sgio...I am not Curmudgeon but I don't think he means his daughter needs a sports hook to get in (she sounds like an incredible student who can get in on those merits) but means she WANTS to continue to play basketball in college and this is one of her college "criteria" but not the foremost one. I can relate to that. My D wanted to continue her passions in athletics in college but like Voronwe's child, picked the schools out first based on other criteria but made sure they had the sports she played at any level so she could continue with them there and then looked into that more fully on her visits/contacts. It was just ONE factor in her college selection. As well, she did not need or use any athletic "hook" and was not an official recruit, though is on a varsity sport team now at college in one sport and will play club sports in her other two sports there. I don't think Curmudgeon was looking so much for a hook as much as wanting his D to be able to explore the opportunities to continue her basketball passion and prowess and how that process works in terms of coaches, and college admissions.</p>

<p>Curmudgeon....what you wrote about in that magazine and the ads and all....whoa...I had no idea of such things! Then again, it is Texas where the cheerleading mom from hell came from....just kidding!
Susan</p>

16

<p>Sorry, I guess I just zeroed in on the assembly-of-coaches-or-magazine-ad stuff. I would think TEN colleges was way MORE than enough, and I would think that if she did as we did, the coaches would TELL her what the possiblities were. For example, for one of the distant second choices, the coach said child would essentially sit on the bench, so we crossed it off our list. Therefore you would not be operating by fatalism, but real info.</p>

17

<p>As I believe my favorite Jewish Cowboy Country and Western Singer/Songwriter Mystery Author and sometimes Austin resident Kinky Freidman has been known to say, and I'll paraphrase-"This is a lot like trying to herd cats." BUT I appreciate all the responses.</p>

18

<p>Yeah, that magazine stuff was just ....odd. It reminded me of all the wannabe starlet's billboards in and near Hollywood. Or the Oscar ads in Variety. Weird to me but,whether or not it's effective, I can't say.</p>

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<p>karenindallas: D1 coaches can contact juniors in writing after September 1 of a player's junior year. They are not permitted to CALL players until July 1 following junior year and then they are limited to one call per week (except right around an official visit to make arrangements, I believe). </p>

<p>Curmudgeon: funny. do you keep your daughter in stitches? College angst will be minimal in your house, I think! I have a feeling that your daughter will be seriously pursued when the time comes. Also, remember that if she falls in love with a D1, there is club and intramural basketball. The premier basketball player in our area (MVP of a very competitive west coast basketball league) chose to go to a major D1 school because of all of its other offerings, but was not recruited but is playing club basketball.</p>

20

<p>Patient, we can only hope.Thanks again for the insight.</p>

<p>As to club ball, or intramural, her starting point when she was a freshman was recruited and made the same choice you are speaking of at Texas A+M. I can see D doing that , just not at A+M. LOL.</p>

<p>BTW as to D's view of my humor, she's mortified. I have standing orders to remain a mute while within 20 feet of another teenager, cute boy-50 feet, really cute boy- I have to pretend I am her man -servant, Reginald. Which is really not that far off from our reality.</p>