<p>Any mom or dad out there with an athlete? I'm not talking all-star but a decent athlete. I'm curious if smaller schools ie., (Division III) might hold out some merit for my "D". Tri sport athlete, 28 ACT 1290 math/verbal 2003 combined. She WANTS to play sports and has has band, history award, Young Leaders Club, AAU bball, blah, blah, blah... you guys know the rest. I'm just thinking some of these LAC's have to populate these teams and I know Div. III can't give "athletic scholorships". They can, I'm told, "enhance" the merit package if the student is willing to play a sport. Does this actually go on? Is sports part of the package at smaller LAC's not renowned for athletics. "D" wants to stay in Northeast/NY area. Just throw a place out to visit.. I don't know where to start.</p>
<p>This is just our experience. My dd is a very good, not recruitable to D1, athlete. We were not expecting this, but she was contacted by coaches to play at DIII schools after her application was forwarded to the coaches by admissions. She was delighted, and after a number of communications, including the college coaches talking to her HS and club coaches, she not only received letters from the coaches with admission notification (came in a few weeks before the official letter from admissions), but has recently received merit scholarship $$$ offers. The latter is just this week, and we are unsure whether it's tied to the additional athletic skills she could bring to the schools or not, but suspect it may be tied in. Her stats, btw, were either at or above the 75th percentile for the schools. I'll PM you further. Good luck!</p>
<p>a couple places to start ... search CC for titles like "athlete" or "recruiting" there have been numerous topics on recruiting kids. Also you may want to check out <a href="http://www.ncaa.org%5B/url%5D">www.ncaa.org</a> which explains all the rules about recruiting.</p>
<p>My biggest suggestion would be to provide more detail and then a bunch of folks will probably jump in and help. What sports does she play? What year is she? Has she heard from any college programs? How good is she ... varsity, all league, all state, ODP? What does whe want out of sports from college ... get into the best program she can (whether she gets to play or not)?, be able to play all 3 sports? Be a starter soon? etc.</p>
<p>There are a bunch of ways to get help in recruiting starting with her HS coaches and AAU / MAPL / ODP coaches who probably can best project what level of program would be a good fit for your daughter. </p>
<p>Past top Div 1 programs a lot of recruiting is initiated by the student ... most programs have links on their web pages to contact coaches ... if your daughter initiates contact and a coach is interested their responses will show their interest. There are a million D3 schools the trick is cutting the list down to a manageable number to contact. I've done a first draft of this for my soccer / basketball / lacrosse playing son and just finding schools with those 3 sports and whose academic level is about right for him actually creates a relatively reasonable length list of schools (especially adding geographic preferences).</p>
<p>Tell us a little more and I'm sure people will jump in with lots of good info.</p>
<p>We are just finishing up this process. Son also was a three-sport letterman, captainships, 28 ACT, respectable GPA, other EC's, etc. He was recruited for football by a high quality D3 LAC in our state with merit aid (basketball and lacrosse were his other sports). 3togo had some good suggestions to get things started. As galwaymom suggested, higher merit aid offers are most definitely tied into D3 recruiting. Certainly, athletes need to be in the academic ballpark, but it's a D3 college's only financial tool in snagging these kids for their teams. Athletics also may provide preferred admissions for kids at the lower end of the academic range. These schools all want and need athletes for their teams whether they're a divisional/conference powerhouse or not. Give us some specifics and we can all go from there.</p>
<p>Thanks for those responses! By the time it is all said and done "D" will have earned 12 HS letters, 6 of those as a varsity player in a D1 high school that graduates about 460 kids. Just making these teams is difficult and juniors and seniors are routinely cut. She is a starter, but not a star. She probably will not be a Captain. Her sports are volleyball, basketball, and softball. She plays AAU basketball as well and averages around 8 pts and 12 rebounds a game. I would like to support her in her wish to play college DIII sports (not 3 sports though) but.. as a biology major (premed) I'm concerned colleges may exploit her willingness to play several sports "gratis" and in doing so her studies may suffer. I would prefer her to narrow her focus to one sport.. her choice would probably be Bball. Also owed to her efforts as an athlete I sort of feel as though she should be rewarded, much the same as a student working part time in the library or admissions office is often times rewarded, with a reduced tuition. Am I out of line in thinking this way? Then there's the trade-off, should she fore-go admission to an upper echelon LAC, many of those have D1 sports, in favor of a lesser known LAC, simply for sports? She will not be a D1 recruited athlete but has SAT and EC's to, in all likelihood achieve admission, according to her GC. Honestly, isn't graduate school admission tied, at least somewhat, to the name recognition associated with your undergrad institution? Who knew it would be this difficult.</p>
<p>For what it is worth, I will share our journey. D was interested in playing bball at a D3 school with excellent academics. We did preliminary research looking at various D3 leagues junior year - NESCAC (Bowdoin, Bates, Williams, etc.), UAA (Brandeis, Emory, NYU), etc. We went to some games, observed teams/dynamics, researched schools. D's high school coach sent out emails to the top 12 schools on D's list and made contact with the coaches. Some responded and some did not. D visited a handful of schools, met with coaches, watched practices and took tours, just getting a feel. As you know, three varsity sports and AAU leaves next to no time so it was hard to fit all of this in. The high school coach then emailed all of the coaches with D's summer AAU schedule. Any school she was interested in that did not respond to the coach, she filled out the on line recruiting form and emailed them herself with the schedule. D also did some shootouts and sent notes to coaches about that. By fall of this year (her senior year), D decided she also wanted to apply to some Ivies and other DI schools where she could not play. So, in the end she has a list of 5 D3 schools and 5 DI schools. Her relationship with a few coaches in particular really developed with calls, emails, visits, etc. None of these schools will give money for athletics of course. A few are very well endowed and may give merit money, time will tell. However, importantly for D, all place athletics first and I would be surprised if any would encourage competition in two sports, nor would she want to - too much else to do. I would also investigate the rules of the various leagues...i.e. NESCAC I don't think begin formal practices until November and the season ended already except for two schools which are still in the hunt. If you have questions about particular schools, you can PM me and I will let you know if I can help. Good luck, it is a time consuming journey!! MM</p>
<p>Athletics does add another component to an already complicated process. However, if a kid is truly interested in going that route, it does present its advantages, some of which I mentioned earlier. I guess you could say that merit aid is, in effect, a form of reduced tuition in that it reduces the yearly price tag.</p>
<p>There's no need to play more than one sport in college unless your D. chooses to do so. It's tough, but for a highly-motivated kid, two is usually tops and even those are not generally back-to-back season sports (fall/spring v. fall/winter or winter/spring). Once she is recruited for her primary sport, other coaches at that school may approach her after learning she has played their sport in HS. That happened to my son's friend...recruited for football, then approached by the baseball coach. If she's not interested, she simply declines, especially if it will interfere with her studies. We found the D3 coaches at the higher quality LAC's were especially sensitive to putting academics ahead of athletics. Also, training and conditioning is generally year-round for intercollegiate athletics so she'll have plenty on her plate in the off-season.</p>
<p>As far as narrowing her focus ahead of recruiting, that's really not necessary unless your D. has firmly decided which sport she wants to play in college. We shopped around for both football and lacrosse programs since son would have been happy to play either one. It's a bit more complicated, but it provided more options which is important when trying to find the right fit.</p>
<p>D3 and name recognition are not necessarily mutually exclusive. Some of those D3 LAC's in the Northeast are highly prestigious and require high stats regardless of the athletic hook. Our focus was on the Midwest LAC's, so other posters would be more qualified to address that issue with you. Of course, submitting a few applications to D1 schools without athletics is not unusual. My son along with his recruited athlete peers did that. If my son had ended up going that route, he was planning on playing at the Club level, yet another option!</p>
<p>My D was a good athlete in high school, especially in soccer. She goes to Cornell U. and has found club soccer a wonderful experience. The team travels four or five times a season, then goes to the Club Nationals somewhere south in November (the past few years it's been Tuscaloosa and Austin; next year it's Tempe). There are three practices a week and the team self-coaches, which gives the girls leadership opportunities. The varsity team coach gives occasional pointers, and every year at least one girl from the varsity team decides that it is too much and "defects" to the club team. Overall it's less commitment than a D3 team but has been an exceptional opportunity, both athletically and personally.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Also owed to her efforts as an athlete I sort of feel as though she should be rewarded, much the same as a student working part time in the library or admissions office is often times rewarded, with a reduced tuition. Am I out of line in thinking this way?
[/quote]
FYI - D3 schools CAN NOT pay anything to their athletes beyond financial aid and merit aid that they would have received even if they were not an athlete or they are breaking the rules of the NCAA ... merit aid for athletics is an athletic scholarship and that leads to D1 recruiting. Working in the library is a part-time job ... playing a sport, or being in the band, or being in the play are all extra currucular activities and not part-time jobs.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Then there's the trade-off, should she fore-go admission to an upper echelon LAC, many of those have D1 sports, in favor of a lesser known LAC, simply for sports?
[/quote]
I believe most LACs are D3 schools ... it seems like the D1 LACs are more of the exception ... I'm not sure which schools in which your daughter is interested</p>
<p><<then there's="" the="" trade-off,="" should="" she="" fore-go="" admission="" to="" an="" upper="" echelon="" lac,="" many="" of="" those="" have="" d1="" sports,="" in="" favor="" a="" lesser="" known="" simply="" for="" sports?="" will="" not="" be="" recruited="" athlete="" but="" has="" sat="" and="" ec's="" to,="" all="" likelihood="" achieve="" admission,="" according="" her="" gc.="">></then></p>
<p>I second 3togo that, unless you're talking Ivies, the highly selective LACs are more DIII than DI (Bucknell and BC come to mind off the top of my head as exceptions; Villanova also, in the selective cetegory). And be careful of those comforting GC words- get a good safety, match, reach list going. If your GC is anything like our large public HS's is, they can be uninformed or, at worst, misleading. Your D (with your obviously ready to give support) needs to do the homework to be well prepared.
As far as your question about choosing an "upper echelon" LAC vs lesser for sports- depends on $$$ needs, and how much she wants to play for the school. Club sports are an option, with many fine HS varsity players playing at that level, rather than year round team committment. (as SuNa said).</p>
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[quote]
D3 schools CAN NOT pay anything to their athletes beyond financial aid and merit aid that they would have received even if they were not an athlete
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Yes, but do we really know how much merit aid they would have received without athletics? Less perhaps? The amount of merit aid awarded is at the discretion of each school and is a fairly subjective process. They certainly wouldn't blatantly say that the amount was determined in order to enhance recruiting per NCAA restrictions as you point out. Rather, it is based on a review of a candidate's entire file. At son's college, for instance, 50% is stat based (GPA/scores), the other 50% is EC's, essays, interview, recs...the non-number factors. A recruited athletes EC's become mighty important compared to those of the average applicant in that merit aid review process.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Yes, but do we really know how much merit aid they would have received without athletics?
[/quote]
true ... some schools place more rules on themselves than the NCAA requires ... while not a part of this LAC discussion the IVY league schools have jointly agreed to a bunch of rules to enforce the academic integrity and scholarship limitations of their atheltic programs. I am not as aware of other conferences approaches but I would not be surprised it the NESCAC LACs, for examples, have not all voluntarily adopted rules beyond the NCAA regulations to maintain their approach to not providing scholarships to athletes. Of course, even with these rules there is wiggle room ... but certainly less wiggle room.</p>
<p>I understand D3 schools cannot award scholarships for athletics. I further understand that many upper echelon LAC's give no non-need based aid. But what I've been hearing (and reading) is that colleges, like the baby Ivy where a neighbor's son attended, did in fact offer a more attractive "financial" package owed to the fact he was an award winning baseball player. His father, a HS coach, told me so himself. Another friend has a daughter attending Smith who claimed similarly that the "package" offered did in fact have something to do with her basketball ability. I guess what I'm wondering is whether or not D3 schools do find ways, within the confines of the rules set fourth, to make thier particular institutions more attractive, from a financial perspective, for a solid student/athlete. And yes, I also understand athletics is not a job but an EC. But frankly, three hours on a basketball court or football field, much the same as three hours working in the library, is time away from your studies. If you reward the library-aid why not reward the athlete, both are operating in the best interest of the school and sacrificing study and personal time to do so. Curiously I would be interested to know if the scores of athlete admits, on the whole, are as strong as non-athlete admits. There's one stat you'll never see published. For instance do football players at HPY have, on average, lower or higher SAT/ACT scores than the rest of the admits? Obviously all the players are bright kids just to be considered... but does the administration reach down a bit to take that All-Conference QB? I think the answer might be yes. Whether money is introduced in some subtle form or another ....from what I'm reading it is. It would just be tough to prove it.</p>
<p>Short answer...yes, in the world of college athletics, there are both preferred admissions and attractive financial packages offered to recruited athletes (not called athletic scholarships, per se, by the D3's or Ivies). Generally, recruiters at top schools pre-qualify by asking for academic stats right out of the starting gate. Standards may be lowered somewhat in order to recruit top prospects, but they won't bother to waste their time on athletes they know don't stand a chance of clearing the admissions office.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Generally, recruiters at top schools pre-qualify by asking for academic stats right out of the starting gate. Standards may be lowered somewhat in order to recruit top prospects, but they won't bother to waste their time on athletes they know don't stand a chance of clearing the admissions office.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Some of those numbers are published or hinted at -- and a frank discussion with a college head coach will generally yield the academic stat range he needs to present a recruit to admissions.</p>
<p>ivies use an academic index. you can search these forums and find a lot of discussion about the bands and the process for ivies.</p>
<p>I have to comment here - as I believe the OP has a bit scewed representation about the athlete situation and the financial piece of it.
Per the words of the OP: '''If you reward the library-aid why not reward the athlete''''</p>
<p>"""three hours on a basketball court or football field, much the same as three hours working in the library, is time away from your studies"""</p>
<p>First of all - the 3 hours working in the library - is an on-campus job - and most likely part of a federal work-study piece of the financial aid package!!!!!!!!!!!! and is in NO way a same/similar 'reward'!! BTW the hours of a fed work study participant are somewhat limited also by the amount involved and also can be by the school as well.</p>
<p>Secondly - 3 hours playing a game?? vs 3 hours working in the library??!!?? - add to that the daily practice schedule - sometimes 3 hours a day - the travel involved - the missed classes, - the year round committment in many cases, etc......... - doesn't even come close. Being a college athlete is a huge committment - to the school - the team - the coach and to oneself as well - not to be taken lightly.</p>
<p>Many a time that athlete is ALSO working in the library as part of his work-study program.</p>
<p>SO this is not the way to look at the 'reward' piece as far as comparing apples to oranges - 2 completely different fruits.</p>
<p>Any kiddo who is considering playing at a college really needs to take many things into consideration - the time committment is one of them - the financial 'reward' is certainly another - but most of all - the academic consideration needs to take the front seat. If the athletic piece is above and beyond what the student can actaully manage - then maybe looking at schools that have strong (and ?competitive) club programs may be a good choice - less time involved - but a great way to feed that need to participate in ones sport - or even a new one. The sports that are indicated by the OP have some good club programs - at many schools.</p>
<p>If your kiddo is not a senior right now - you - the student - may initiate contact with coaches regarding the sport of interest - but the coach is unable to initiate contact with the student until july - would be a very good idea to check out the NCAA site about this</p>
<ul>
<li>as the student - if considering DI or DII - will need to be registered thru the clearinghouse to be eligable. Most schools have an ''interest'' form that can be filled out online - usually in the athletics section somewhere - directed to the coach - which is a good way to show interest in the school/program and to make contact.</li>
</ul>
<p>As far as participating in 2 sports in college - there are some schools that will be okay with this - but some won't - and that would have to be worked out depending on where this kiddo attends.</p>
<p>And the upper echulon LAC's - many are also DIII as well - there are lots to chose from - and why not consider other than LAC's too into the mix - there are many choices out there for your kiddo - especially in the Northeast.</p>
<p>One thing that may help you is to google - an sat/act score range and college - there are many fine schools that offer ''automatic type aid'' for a specific combo of gpa/sat/act - tho this is not a New England school - it is an example of what you will find - will at least give you some idea anyways</p>
<p>This will give you a good idea of the ACT/SAT conversion for the NEW SAT</p>
<p><a href="http://www.powerprep.com/actvssat.htmT%5B/url%5D">http://www.powerprep.com/actvssat.htmT</a></p>
<p>To throw a New England School into the mix - take a look at the Trinity site <a href="http://www.trincoll.edu%5B/url%5D">www.trincoll.edu</a> - has alot that you are interested in as far as sports and other things as well - nice school BTW - just a thought.................. (tho not sure about merit aid there)</p>
<p>OP you may want to take a look at this school as well - in Boston - has alot of what you are looking for </p>
<p><a href="http://www.emmanuel.edu/%5B/url%5D">http://www.emmanuel.edu/</a></p>
<p>and this may be of interest to you as well................</p>
<p>LOL you asked for a school to check out LOL....................... just throwing ideas out there.</p>
<p>Another thing to keep in mind - if your D is thinking pre-med - she can actually major in just about anything of her choosing - not just biology - tho to make sure that the sciences required for pre-med are included. It is not uncommon for many a pre-med student to change their minds - actually somewhat expect them too in some ways. The college experience creats many changes in what we once thought we would do........... just keep an open mind - the student may find another route to take once the journey begins.:)</p>
<p>Look at my old thread on this topic for lots of info...</p>
<p>In general, if you want merit aid in D3, you will be shooting a little lower both athletically and academically.</p>
<p>My Daughter got merit aid at all her 'safety' schools, and one of them did say that the award she got took "extra curriculars" into account on top of SATs, GPA, etc. I assume extra curriculars include sports. </p>
<p>Her SAT was 1350, and she wasnot # one on the team but was captain, first team all-league three times, and her team won the championship in her sport. Our HS is huge, strong in D's sport, & our #1-2 players are routinely D1 or Ivy recruit caliber. </p>
<p>The top academic D3s (with a few exceptions like Grinnell, JHU, and WashU) do not really offer merit aid. My D's "reaches" were schools like Haverford; no way would we get a penny of aid.</p>
<p>Matches were schools like Smith, Kenyon... I think Smith gives merit aid but I was not expecting any (never found out, as she was admitted ED2 elsewhere.)</p>
<p>Our goal was for sports to help her to get in to the best possible school-- since we knew we did not qualify for any need-based aid. The merit awards were unexpected and NICE, but as I said they were schools in the ~50 ranked area, not the top ~20. The awards were in the 10-12K range per year, renewable with a B average.</p>
<p>Off the top of my head I would say you need schools that:
(1) actually give merit aid
(2) have a 75th % SAT of 1275 or less = she is academic standout
(3) have decent but not fantastic teams in the sports she wants to play = she is athletic standout</p>
<p>That's the short answer on D3.</p>
<p>BTW D is thrilled with her school and would be if she could not play the sport due to injury or change of heart. That is very important!</p>