<p>The unsubsidized Staffords are seriously expensive loans. So I doubt that the father’s motivation for applying for FA is for the son to have “skin in the game.” It’s a great idea for the student to shoulder some responsibility, but that would be a silly way to accomplish it. He’s in a position to easily arrange far more favorable terms.</p>
<p>I think there’s something else going on here.</p>
<p>I think he’s one of these people that doesn’t think any/many colleges are worth $50k per year.</p>
<p>Hard to disagree with that opinion … the only counter-argument might be that the value of money may now be decreasing faster than the price of college is increasing!</p>
<p>Olymom- I just want to say one more time…I love your posts!</p>
<p>Maybe your dad has taken a good long look at your stats, has done a teeny bit of research on his own, and has hit links to threads like these:</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/848226-important-links-automatic-guaranteed-merit-scholarships.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/848226-important-links-automatic-guaranteed-merit-scholarships.html</a>
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/148852-what-ive-learned-about-full-ride-scholarships.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/148852-what-ive-learned-about-full-ride-scholarships.html</a>
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/291483-update-what-i-learned-about-free-ride-scholarships.html?highlight=momfromtexas[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/291483-update-what-i-learned-about-free-ride-scholarships.html?highlight=momfromtexas</a></p>
<p>There are more if you scroll down through this forum and the Parents Forum, and similar information is available from other sources.</p>
<p>Merit money goes to whoever the college/university determines to meet their particular criteria. If you do end up attending college on the cheap because of merit-based aid, remember that you can thank that institution for its generosity by donating significant sums of money to that institution once you have a job of your own (or a big inheritance), by serving on a board (better yet, on the scholarship fund-raising committee), by recruiting new students, or, well, use your own imagination. You also can “pay back” by contributing to society in other ways. Again the limits are only the ones imposed by your imagination.</p>
<p>I appreciate everyone’s advice, but it has been my dream to go to Stanford since I was in 4th grade. I have worked SO hard to get to the point I am at. I’m not sure if I will get in, but I think I have a strong chance. If I get in, there is no way I’m not going there. I will do anything it takes.</p>
<p>If you will do what it takes - then file the darn forms - you are only losing a little bit of time but you will be humoring dear old dad. When the EFC comes up $60,000 - you will have proved your point! Try to look for scholarships if you can to ease the financial burden and negotiate with Dad with regards how much he can manage/be willing to pay for you to go to your dream school. Good luck!</p>
<p>One of my wealthier friends is thinking about having his DD take out a unsub stafford loan, to “make her have some skin in the game” HIs DD is a really sweet girl who will be attending BC (btw, catholic family). My response is (I know family), you are earning 1% on your funds now – why make her incure greater interest on loan? I told him, onl thing is if DD takes a public service job with debt forgivenes.</p>
<p>I think EFC will come up 99,999. I agree, if Dad refuses to ever pay full price, student will have to give up on Ivy League, etc.</p>
<p>Proceed with the Stanford and other apps…and include a few merit scholarships schools that have assured scholarships (so you won’t feel like you’re taking from a needy person).</p>
<p>Give the FA stuff to your dad for him to fill out (he may give up the ghost when he sees how much work HE has to do) and go on.</p>
<p>If he does fill everything out, you’ll get the “bad news” later that you don’t qualify and then what’s he going to say.</p>
<p>Fill out the forms as he wishes and see what comes back. If you are deserving of merit aid and can get to college on your own steam, that’s a huge accomplishment and shouldn’t be seen as taking anything away from anyone else. The money is your fathers, not yours, and you might find yourself grateful to have that kind of independence.</p>
<p>Another thing–do you know what kind of debt your father is carrying, and what other financial obligations he has? A lot of times, even though it looks like there is too much money on paper, families live right up to that number. From what you say, he should be able to pay your tuition and fees but…I’m not sure you can ever really know the truth of someone’s finances unless you are the one making the money and paying the bills and feeling the pressure.</p>
<p>Obviously, no gaming, don’t let him do anytihng unethical and good luck with Stanford!</p>
<p>My uncle (who graduated from the same HS as me in '07) was offered $80,000 at Michigan, $35,000/yr at USC and a full ride to Duke. He ultimately turned down these offers for Stanford. He had similar stats to me (2220 SAT, salutatorian)… Do you think I might have a chance at these?</p>
<p>I doubt someone with those stats would get a “full ride” merit scholarship from Duke. Maybe it was a need-based scholarship.</p>
<p>A 2220 is not spectacular for Duke, so unlikely going to get a “full ride.”</p>
<p>He did, and it was not need-based. Am if I had to guess, it was probably not based exclusively on quantifiable factors.</p>
<p>^^^</p>
<p>??? </p>
<p>Then what was it based on? Those scores are almost average for Duke. </p>
<p>Duke Middle Quartiles
SAT Critical Reading: 660 - 750<br>
SAT Math: 680 - 780
SAT Writing: 660 - 760 </p>
<p>Anyway…if the scholarship wasn’t objective, then there’s no way to know if you might get that.</p>
<p>And, UMich is getting more questionable with merit scholarships…</p>
<p>Was your uncle a NMF? Again, I doubt those scores would now get that much merit at USC unless NMF.</p>
<p>What was your uncle’s major and what is your major?</p>
<p>I mean, it wasn’t like it was that long ago. Only five years ago. He was not an NMF, only commended.</p>
<p>His major was human biology. That is my intended major as well</p>
<p>You should not bank on big merit to extremely competitive schools and public universities for which you are out of state. Big merit is most likely to come from schools at which you are in the top 5-25% of applicants, depending on how much merit money they have to give out.</p>
<p>Do some investigation. Look on Michigan, USC’s, and Duke’s financial aid pages and find out what scholarships your uncle was likely offered. AS mom2collegekids has stated, you are an average applicant at USC and Duke, so you cannot expect large amounts of merit aid.</p>
<p>You also may not take this advice, but I do encourage you to unlatch yourself from this idea of a “dream college.” Stanford is a fine school, but there are probably dozens of universities and colleges in the U.S. that you will be satisfied with. If your parents are willing and able to pay the full cost of attendance at Stanford then you have nothing to worry about, but it’s far better to be “in love” with a range of schools.</p>
<p>Just to clarify, I don’t have a 2220 SAT. I have a 2280. And I am valedictorian with a 4.0 GPA.</p>
<p>^^^</p>
<p>At top schools (like Duke) a 2280 is not spectacular.</p>
<p>* Big merit is most likely to come from schools at which you are in the top 5-25% of applicants*</p>
<p>From what I’ve seen, to get the big merit at the higher ranked schools that give big merit, your stats pretty much need to be in the top 5-10% of applicants…and that can mean having SATs in the 2300+.</p>
<p>USC might give you some merit scholarship (maybe not $35,000)…how much is your dad expecting you to get? (A lot has changed in 5 years, so your uncle’s situation won’t tell you much.)</p>
<p>Don’t count your chicken before they hatch. You are clearly a great student. Any college can be proud of your numbers. Alas, there are 30,000 valedictorians EVERY year (and a few left over from the previous year because they took a gap year). </p>
<p>There’s nothing wrong with telling Stanford “You are my top pick!” but you are basically playing poker and you do NOT hold 4 Aces. (4 Aces would be having a 4.0, a 2400 SAT, be a gold metal Olympian and have a very, very deep pockets family – as in a Bill Gates offspring). So what you have is a strong hand, not a perfect one. </p>
<p>Don’t bet the whole ranch on Stanford. Bad, bad, bad idea. </p>
<p>Think like an Admissions officer. They are building a class. They need so many Engineering majors and so many budding English majors and so on. What they take this next cycle in part depends on who they took last time (maybe they filled the dorms with soccer players and the tennis coach had 15 seniors graduate, so now the hunt is on for tennis players). They will never, ever, ever give you a look at their hand. You might get a peek through the rumor mill ("I heard they’re expanding the Math department . . .).</p>
<p>So it really, really doesn’t matter what uncle did five years ago. You are not he. It is now, not then. He was a match five years ago. You don’t know what you are just yet. </p>
<p>So consider Stanford as a good looking sweetie that makes your heart go pitty patter – and keep your heart anchored enough to know that there are some other lovelies out there. Give them a chance to win your heart with an admissions and enough to sweeten the pot for Dad. </p>
<p>Keep your heart strings to yourself until late March. (Unless you get ED results in). </p>
<p>PS. Thanks Baystate!</p>