Dad Forcing Me to Apply for Financial Aid

Paying for College
1

<p>Okay so I have a dilemma. My father is forcing me to apply for financial aid in spite of the fact that we will definitely not qualify for it. Today I told him that there would be no point and he screamed at me about it. Here is our financial situation: </p>

<p>Annual Income: $800,000
Liquid Assets: ~$2,000,000
Real Estate Assets: 4 Homes, value ~$2,100,000 (mortgages mostly paid off)</p>

<p>I'm not trying to brag or anything, honestly. I just need him to see reason. With our situation, there is probably NO WAY that we will qualify. I would be open to applying for merit-based scholarships, but even then, I would feel badly because I would be taking away educational opportunities from kids that TRULY need the money. What do you think? He is convinced that he can "manipulate the system to get financial aid (ie through getting a fake divorce, etc)" I think that is unethical, disgusting, and greedy. Advice on how to approach this situation?</p>

2

<p>You know…your dad could have a good point.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Some schools require completing the FAFSA/Profile even for MERIT award consideration.</p></li>
<li><p>Some schools will not allow you to APPLY for need based institutional aid after your freshman year if you do not APPLY for it as an incoming freshman.</p></li>
<li><p>Maybe your dad wants you to get a Stafford loan.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>NOW…having said all of that…if your dad plans to game the system, you might want to let him know that he could very well be asked to provide his tax returns and other verifications of income and assets. </p>

<p>AND remember that when YOU sign your FAFSA with a PIN number YOU and your family are saying that all information contained on these forms are accurate and honest. If they are falsified in ANY WAY…it is considered fraud. Tell your dad that not only would you lose (and need to repay if awarded) any aid you might get, but you would also be lose your offer of admission. Schools frown extensively on dishonesty. In addition, the FAFSA is a federal form…this type of fraud carries a financial penalty as well.</p>

<p>Bottom line…be honest.</p>

<p>Oh…and for the record…if you apply to a Profile school that requires Non-custodial parent information, the “fake divorce” won’t do you a speck of good…as your dad will be required to provide his financial information anyway.</p>

3

<p>You are right that you will not qualify for any need based financial aid. However, if you fill out the FAFSA form you will qualify for unsubsidized Stafford loans. Maybe your dad wants you to take them out? There are a lot of parents who want their kids to “have some skin in the game” when it comes to financing education.</p>

<p>Filling out the FAFSA form is relatively painless (the CSS Profile is somewhat harder). Why bother fighting about this? If he’s willing to finance your education, which could be close to a quarter of a million dollars, why not just go along with this? He’ll likely be doing the work anyway.</p>

<p>ETA: When I say “go along with this” I don’t mean to go along with any kind of fraud. As Thumper points out you will have to sign that the forms are accurate.</p>

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<p>Just an FYI…one of our kids was chosen for verification EVERY year for four years of undergrad school. We were asked to provide…EACH year…tax returns for the current and past years (apparently some folks amend their returns…), three months of bank statements, all of our w-2 and 1098 forms.</p>

5

<p>My vote to fill the forms out honestly … it will take very little time … and then your Dad can see the results of of not getting any financial aid.</p>

<p>What types schools are you thinking of applying to … local state schools that only require the FAFSA for financial aid (some “games” legal or not may help) … or private schools that require the CSS Profile? If schools that require the CSS Profile than “gaming” the system becomes much tougher.</p>

6

<p>I don’t think “gaming” the FAFSA is easy or advisable (I know 3togo doesn’t suggest it is)… bottom line…it’s FAFSA verification that required us to send in all those documents. And yes…it was a Profile school too.</p>

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<p>^ Thanks Thumper … I in noway meant to advocate gaming the system … just pointing out the FAFSA form only considering the custodian parent can make it appear easier to game than the CSS profile.</p>

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<p>I’m applying to almost all private schools… a lot of which do not offer merit-based scholarships, only need-based. </p>

<p>My list is…</p>

<p>Stanford REA (#1)
Harvard
Yale
Princeton
Brown
Duke
Penn
Georgetown
Michigan
Boston College
Northwestern
USC
American
Colorado-Boulder</p>

<p>Personally, I don’t really understand the value of applying for a Stafford loan, even though the interest is relatively low… Why not pay for the whole thing without the expense of interest? I’m not going to let him try to game the system either, so don’t worry about that. I’m just giving an example of how irrational he is being about the whole thing.</p>

9

<p>Actually, the interest rate on Stafford loans is not particularly low – I believe it’s around 6.8% right now. For comparison, a 30 year mortgage is around 4% right now.</p>

<p>However these would be your loans, not your dad’s. Maybe he wants you to have some responsibility for the cost of your education. Knowing that you will have payments to make after graduation helps focus the mind on studying!</p>

<p>A piece of unsolicited advice: After reading these boards for a couple of years I’ve seen a whole bunch of kids come on here and complain that they have a lousy relationship with their parents and the parents have withdrawn financial support. Maybe you should be a little circumspect about your father being “irrational”. At least he’s willing to support you.</p>

10

<p>Actually, he is being irrational. My mom agrees with me, and my grandparents, and my uncle, siblings… It’s becoming a problem.</p>

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<p>Your family is in the financial position to pay full freight at most any college without needing these loans. Some students are not so fortunate. Even with parent contributions, the Stafford loans ease the burden on the parents. Our kids took the Stafford loans as their contribution to financing college. Please don’t be condescending to those who need or take these loans (I suspect you didn’t mean to be…but that’s how it sounded to me).</p>

<p>Your family financial situation puts you in the FULL PAY category for all of the schools on your list. They all require the CSS Profile in addition to the FAFSA (except Princeton which has its own form with much the same info requested as the Profile). If I’m not mistaken all of them also require the non-custodial parent Profile (or in Princeton’s case, info from the NCP) so even if your parents REALLY got divorced, both of their incomes and assets would need to be reported anyway.</p>

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<p>Thumper…</p>

<p>That’s exactly what I’m saying! And no, I’m really not trying to be condescending. Honestly, and I’m sorry if I came off that way. Sorry when I first responded I wasn’t entirely sure what a Stafford loan was (I thought it was for the parents… That’s why I thought it would be financially imprudent). And when I say he is being irrational in general, I mean in more ways than just about money.</p>

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<p>This is, I suspect, classic Fear/Aggression. Your Dad is terrified. It may be he’s terrified of you growing up – or moving away – or that his robust income still won’t be enough – or that having a kid in college means that he’s “over the hill” or some combination of all of the above plus more. </p>

<p>So, he doesn’t get to say “OMG. I’m ancient and about to pay a fortune to loose my darling D to some sweaty frat rat at an overpriced college where everyone else’s Dad has twice my income and twice my hair and half my waistline.” Nope. That’s not what Dads do. So he does The Classic Dominant Male Thing and “Imposes Standards”. </p>

<p>I think you should address his fears. And here’s how:</p>

<p>1) Make copious gestures and words of gratitude. Tell him about the things you appreciate about him and the things he has made possible for you (be it violin lessons or that overseas trip or the quick fix to a dented bumper). Even better, do what teachers and parents know to do: sing his praises in front of others. Don’t be saccharine – be sincere. </p>

<p>2) Fill out the FAFSA. Consider it a learning experience. Be cheerful and do your best and get his help when you hit a sticking point. So what if your EFC = $100,000? You will learn what most college students are struggling with and the FAFSA is a good introduction to tax forms. </p>

<p>When you have a roommate or a permanent sweetie or a business partner, there will be times that you do things THEIR way. Not because you value the task but because that is part of being a mature partner. Hopefully they will return the favor and put the silverware in the drawer you selected or park the car in the place and fashion that you prefer. </p>

<p>Get a copy of “How to pay for college without going broke” and read through it. Even if Pop has deep pockets, there’s no point in paying more for something than you have to. Your Dad may deeply appreciate your efforts to learn to be economical (and that may lessen his fears – some offspring seem to want the Deluxe Everything and if you can show you don’t need the poshest dorm on campus, he may have a great sense of relief). </p>

<p>Bottom line: This is HIS money. Not yours. If he wants to put up some hoops so that you learn gratitude and discipline, go ahead and roll your eyes (a teeny bit) but then understand what it is he is trying to teach. </p>

<p>Meanwhile, teach back. Make sure he knows that a financial aid officer WILL be combing through the family tax returns. Don’t be snide about saying that. Be cheerful and ask Dad when he normally gets returns done as each college will have its own deadline (that is usually much earlier than April 15).
Good luck!</p>

14

<p>Lilshow…</p>

<p>You need to “cut to the chase” with your dad.</p>

<p>Ask him…</p>

<p>1) how much does he want to spend each year on your college costs. It sounds (to me) that he’s determined not to spend much. If so, that would be a whole 'nuther problem.</p>

<p>2) Does he understand that most/all of the schools that are on your list require the income/asset info of BOTH parents…even if divorced? </p>

<p>3) Does he understand that even if he had NO ASSETS AT ALL (even if he gave them all away), you still would not qualify for need-based aid because of his income. …even if he cut his income by 75% you still would not qualify for aid.</p>

<p>Will he expect you to go to Colorado-Boulder if you don’t get aid somewhere?</p>

<p>Is he expecting you to get merit scholarships somewhere?</p>

<p>Is he the type who prides himself in never paying full-price for anything? If so, that could be an issue that won’t easily be overcome.</p>

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<p>From another thread by the OP…home state is Illinois…not Colorado.</p>

16

<p>Olymom,</p>

<p>Thanks for the advice! I will definitely try to reach out to him about this issue. :)</p>

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<p>Mom2collegekids, </p>

<p>I think you are right. I need to have a serious talk with him about this and see what he’s thinking. He has exactly that mentality you spoke of (never pay full price for anything).</p>

18

<p>* He has exactly that mentality you spoke of (never pay full price for anything).*</p>

<p>That’s what I thought…</p>

<p>Well, if he puts his foot down and won’t pay full price, then find a good LAC (like Grinnell) or maybe a strong regional university (like Santa Clara) that will likely give you merit scholarships for your stats…as back ups.</p>

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<p>You know, that “never pay full price for anything” is probably in part what has gotten him to this place of financial success. And you’ve lived 18 years in this privileged world of a child of affluent parents. I’m not saying everything in your life was perfect or easy, but that there are many young adults applying to college right now with zero means to pay for it that would swap whatever your troubles are for theirs.</p>

<p>If you get a merit scholarship you are NOT taking it away from a more needy student. The reality is that merit scholarship money will go to the next kid on the list with high stats that they wish to recruit. So stop feeling guilty about applying for merit scholarships that are awarded without regard to financial need–because some OTHER kid will get awarded it if you don’t apply.</p>

<p>Secondly, considering all that your father has done for you for 18 years, filling out your portion of the FAFSA is less than an hour worth of work. </p>

<p>This is not the battle you need to wage. You need to realize that your dad can decide to give you zero money for college and be within his rights to doso–so cooperate with him instead of trying to marshal up support from the other relatives. Because it sounds like dad, for all his bluster about a “fake divorce”, is probably going fill out the FAFSA with correct information AND pay for most or all of your college. Simply be clear about your boundaries (no “fake divorce” or falsifying info) and leave it at that.</p>

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<p>* I would be open to applying for merit-based scholarships, but even then, I would feel badly because I would be taking away educational opportunities from kids that TRULY need the money.*</p>

<p>Oh…I missed this.</p>

<p>No you would not be taking money away from other students. </p>

<p>Also, there are schools that give merit money to EVERY student with high stats…so who would you be taking that kind of schlarship from? That would be like if your school handed out $5 to every student who gets a top report card…are you taking somebody else’s $5? No!</p>