<p>According to reliable sources, coke use at SAE was a well-known phenomenon.</p>
<p>It is also true that 6 houses, both fraternities and sororities, at D are being charged in some way by the Hanover Police with providing alcohol to minors. It is also true that all of the houses do so, and that a large number of underage students obtain alcohol and drink in their dorm rooms at D and most other schools.</p>
<p>If was a lot easier when I was in college and the drinking age was 18. There was also a lot LESS binge drinking.</p>
<p>Given what’s happening in Jamaica right now, anyone want to speak again about how buying and using coke is such a victimless crime? Coke (the guy’s name) is considered to be one of the big drug kingpins selling coke (the drug) in the northeast.</p>
<p>One reason this thread is generating a lot of interest may be the unsettling question of public vs. private conduct. Statistics apparently show that student drug use (including coke) is fairly common at colleges. Many posters here also agree that - at some point - it may become appropriate (ie because of college rules, or concerns about student well being) for drug use to be reported to the ‘authorities’ (college security and/or local police). But where drug use is so common on college campuses, should there be a place where students are ‘safe’ to experiment with drugs - ie in their own dorm room? shared dorm room? fraternity bedroom? fraternity pool room or common room? If the alleged conduct had occurred in a fraternity bedroom, would we agree that an ‘outsider’ (someone not a roommate) would be out of line to report it? Presumably the entire college campus should not serve as a safe haven.</p>
<p>CC requires you to input a date of birth when you register. No comment on whether I put my real birth date in.</p>
<p>As for the number of vets here, what I meant is that Aubart is hardly the only veteran on campus. Twelve seems about right, but that’s likely a lot more than the number of students we have from, say, North Dakota. It’s a small campus, so I encounter veterans and/or ROTC cadets fairly often.</p>
<p>There are other vets in Greek houses, and other vets with a reputation. The only veteran I have ever heard any ill spoken of is Phil Aubart; any other time I’ve heard a veteran spoken about, I’ve only heard good things. There is no anti-military sentiment at Dartmouth; the ROTC cadets have dinner together every week or so in their uniform at the dining halls, and nobody bats an eyelid.</p>
<p>Honing in on my perhaps exaggerated choice of wording is fine, but I hope we don’t forget the point I meant to make, which is that we don’t really personally know any of the men involved. Trying to draw inferences about Lohse from his writings, or Aubart from his military service, is interesting, but we can’t draw any firm conclusions about them or the actual ethics of what happened.</p>
<p>All we can do is speculate, and all I can tell you is what campus sentiment is – and there’s a reason, even though campus is somewhat divided on the cocaine issue (maybe 60-40 or 70-30 in favor of the SAE 3), that hardly anyone from Dartmouth is speaking up for Phil Aubart. And I can assure you that reason has nothing to do with his military service or his politics.</p>
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<p>dartmouth12 claims they were using cocaine in the pool room in the basement. If that’s the case, there’s a general expectation of privacy in such rooms. They’re de jure public spaces, but by de facto, it’s usually only brothers and/or people close to the brothers who spend time in such spaces. This actually makes more sense to me than them using in a room on the ground floor – that would be completely insane.</p>
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<p>TheGFG is probably an alum or someone still close with Dartmouth, because this is a bit arcane: May 13 was the Wednesday before Green Key weekend. The Wednesday through Sunday of Green Key is essentially the whole weekend – people tend to skip Thursday and Friday classes, if the profs haven’t already cancelled them. Alumni are already up here by Wednesday or Thursday to party. It’s one of the biggest party weekends of the year.</p>
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<p>No idea if the drinking age is related, but older alumni who come up and play pong tend to fill their cups up only halfway. Their full cups are considered halves by current students/younger alumni. In other words, the total amount of beer consumed in a game of pong has probably almost doubled over the span of a few decades.</p>
<p>Part of it is that it is Dartmouth which is a high profile school, though not as high profile as a number of other colleges that would get as much or more attention. The main reason is that it is truly unusual for a frat member to turn in his brothers to the police. Sort of what Coureur was pointing out with his question about whether you would turn in your kid if you caught him using drugs in your house (though many parents would…to a drug program with threats and ultimatums of getting thrown out of the house and the end of monetary support if the kid did not compyl. something that student did not have as an option to do) That is what make it a “man bites dog” story and of interest.</p>
<p>I believe the kid did warn the frat brothers. I find it hard to believe that he just walked in, saw them doing drugs, and straight away called campus security. If he went through rush, had any time with the frat, he had to know that there was drug use. Heck, just being a student there, he had to know there were drugs. So just seeing kids using would not have been an unusual sight. But there is good reason to not want the drugs in your residence. A whole other story. That can get you in some real trouble that you may not want. So I do believe he said something, and was ignored. Which leaves him with limited recourse. He could have moved, like my son did. To push it further with such insensitive jerks is inviting retribution, possibly in the form of finding drugs in his room. That ain’t gonna happen now. Of the alternatives he had to stop the problem, he chose this one. </p>
<p>I had to tell my roommates in college that I did not want drugs used or stored in our apartment. I also left any parties or other get togethers when drugs were used. I, too, was in a situation where I had a lot to lose if caught in the same room with drugs. Maybe not pot, but coke and other hard drugs would have been a problem for me back then.</p>
<p>As for drinking, though I do support returning to age 21 for legal drinking, I have seen the stats and it is clear and definite that dropping the age to 18 does save lives, bottom line. Yes, we now have more episodes of binge drinking, alcohol poisoning episodes, but fewer alcohol related deaths, particularly from drinking and driving. Those are the facts. Not a free lunch in terms of results, but it is a mortality reduction.</p>
<p>If my daughter did coke anywhere and someone turned her in, I wouldn’t be blaming them for turning her in. Nor would I somehow try to rationalize that they and not my daughter were the ones creating her problems. In this scenario my daughter would have created the problem by committing the felony. No crime = no problem. </p>
<p>If those cokehead guys are concerned about their futures with a felony arrest record they should have thought of that before they started into coke.</p>
<p>I agree, coureur. But I would not turn my son in to police, unless there were some extreme extenuating situations. As I said in my posts, I don’t blame the guy at all. Doesn’t mean I would have turned the guys in myself, but I don’t blame him. And would not be blaming him if that were one of my kids. With some of the issues I’ve had with my boys, I am not saying this lightly, off the top of my head.</p>
<p>I haven’t read all the posts on this, but cocaine use in the Ivy League should not be news to anyone. I’ve had two Ivy League offspring, and from the Jazz Age to Gossip Girl, this is very, very familiar. Now Brown coeds prostituting themselves a few years ago, that’s news. This stuff, not so much.
There is a part of the Ivy League population for whom this is a way of life, and unless the admissions criteria change in a radical fashion, which is another issue, this will continue ad infinitum.</p>
<p>coureur,
I did notice that you dodged my question. Would you turn your own daughter in? I assume you wouldn’t. Why not?</p>
<p>I wouldn’t, because I know that a felony arrest, prosecution and jail time would likely ruin my daughter’s chances for a lot of things in life. I know she is not perfect (who is?) and will make some stupid mistakes in life, like all of us. I know of many people who tried cocaine when they were young, with friends who did not turn them in, and now they have productive lives with husbands/wives and children. I don’t see a benefit to me, my daughter or society, to turn her (or my friends) into the police for occasional drug use.</p>
<p>Bay, I answered your question. No, I would not. But I would not blame someone else one whit if s/he did. That’s the risk kids take when they do illegal drugs. Mine well know it since I have been telling, telling , telling them. They know it very well. I would turn mine into a drug counseling regiment and if they refused to go, I would cut off support and they would have to leave the house. I’ll find them a room and pay the first few months rent. I am very clear about that. But I don’t expect someone else to be so generous or forgiving about these things, especially if the person is put at risk and it is his home too.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t turn my daughter in. Not because doing so would ruin her future but because I’m not convinced that would be the best way to help her. The primary concern of any parent with a child in trouble should be to help their child. BUT, if someone else, say a roommate, turned her in I would not blame that person or try to somehow shift responsibility for ruining her future on to them. Would you?</p>
<p>Look if, we should not report felonies for fear of ruining the felon’s future, then no crime would ever be reported. Because, except for the very mildest of minor offenses, pretty much all criminal convictions will adversely affect the future of the criminal. They are SUPPOSED to adversely affect their future. That’s the way criminal law works.</p>
<p>You’re not convinced that turning in a drug user is the best way to help her so you won’t turn her in, but everyone else should turn in drug users because that’s the way criminal law works? Sorry, I don’t follow your reasoning.</p>
<p>…or maybe its just your daughter that deserves a break, but no one else?</p>
<p>At the risk of being being accused of class bias, here on the Southside of Chicago, I can see turning in a relative with a gun. The weapon is more likely to be turned on another than on oneself.
Drug user, may or may not be another story. If you are selling, as dangerous or more so than a gun slinger. Turn him in, as painful as it may be.
I admit that I haven’t been put to the test on this one. Just one take on where the morality lies. Happily, I have never been put to the test.</p>
Please don’t get personal. As politicans say, that is a hypothetical question.</p>
<p>I can see one situation you may have to turn your daugther in: to prevent her from dying. Let’s say, you did eveything you could, but could not prevent her from continuing using drug and you knew definitely she was going to die out of it. In that case, it may be a good idea to let the authority deal with it to prevent her from dying. In this situation, the law and your interest are on the same page.</p>
<p>No. I wouldn’t personally turn <em>anybody</em> in for using coke, because I don’t think that is the best way to help them Not my daughter and not others. </p>
<p>But at the same time I wouldn’t blame someone else who turned a doper/felon in, not even if the doper were my daughter. I wouldn’t think or say to that person “you ruined my daughter’s life.” The sad fact would be that she had ruined her own life. My daughter would have to accept responsibility for any mess her own actions landed her in. Just like these frat boys.</p>
<p>Pardon me? College students and alcohol? Might as well reinstate that prohibition amendment, and police sex before marriage while you are at it. Get a grip. Were you ever 20 years of age? How prudish can you be?
I was under 21 in New York during the Vietnam War when they didn’t have the nerve to draft people while denying them a beer. Collateral damage to ending the draft was foolish discussions such as this.</p>
<p>Reform the Greek system and stop drinking? I seriously doubt it. Just look at Williams if you need an example. Drive the drinking even more underground and make students more afraid to call for help for a student in distress? Probably.</p>