<p>That’s right and since education is about choices, those students that want and, dare I say, have earned choices, will go elsewhere. And that is going to be Dartmouth’s, and not that student or those student’s problem in the future.</p>
<p>If a student who wants to study an intensive language for a couple of semesters wants to cut back on his course load and still graduate on time they should have the choice to do so if they have earned several AP 5s or IB 6/7s.</p>
<p>viennaman, I beg to differ. As have been stated several times before, Dartmouth as well as other schools that don’t grant AP credit (my D’s undergrad) will have NO problem filling their classes. The type of student that applies to Dartmouth is one that wants to have the four year college experience, not let’s see how many majors we can do and how quick and cheap can we get out.</p>
<p>I am glad you feel there is merit in reaching sideways rather than up.</p>
<p>Whatever that means! What schools do you think that are “up”? </p>
<p>Seriously, the whole conversation is stupid. Vienna and whoever else thinks this policy is not right, well…you know where you can go. </p>
<p>To another school.</p>
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<p>I’m sure Dartmouth disagrees with you, ViennaMan. They have top professionals working in Admissions, Academics, and the Registrar’s office. The fact is that nearly zero students ever try to graduate early, and that is true for Dartmouth’s peers. If they don’t perceive a problem TODAY with their current restrictive policy, what do you see that will be different in the future. The point is that kids who want to cash in AP credits – for whatever reason – have not been applying to Dartmouth and its peers. So, such schools aren’t losing anything.</p>
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<p>Bad example, since Dartmouth has extremely strong languages, and the D-Plan enables that flexibility.</p>
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<p>Why pay all that money to slack off? Seriously? Students are expected to take advanced languages and complete theses/indepth research while taking a regular course load. THAT is the deal. THAT is what The College offers.</p>
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<p>Perhaps you have not been reading the facts on this matter. Few students at the other Ivies cash in AP credits and leave early. Period. It just doesn’t happen. Thus, your’s is a strawman argument.</p>
<p>bluebayou you make a good point! I guess in the end, not sure why Dartmouth is making the change, and I do NOT believe it will hurt the school at all in regards to applications and enrollment. Many other top tier Universities have been making changes as well to the amount of AP credits they will accept for several years now.</p>
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<p>Actually, early graduation does not free up space in the fall quarter, unless a student graduates an entire year early (as opposed to a quarter or two early). Given that Dartmouth appears to already be capacity limited for the fall quarter (as evidenced by them saying that students should not expect to get a D-plan that includes four fall quarters) admitting additional students to start in the fall may not be possible. However, that does leave the possibility of school’s choice winter or spring quarter admissions (similar to how some other schools have school’s choice spring semester admissions).</p>
<p>Of course, eliminating credit units for AP scores may also have the effect of overloading the fall quarter, as some students who have to take an extra quarter due to being a credit unit short of graduating are likely to take a fall quarter.</p>
<p>It is, however, likely that only a small number of Dartmouth students will be affected either way (not being able to graduate early, or avoiding graduating late) by this policy change. Dartmouth’s existing AP policy is not all the generous with either credit units or subject credit anyway.</p>
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<p>Minor details! Yes, Fall is the “full” quarter. But the point is that, if money was the consideration in the change of AP policy – as many on this thread claim – money could easily be recaptured. How they accomplish it, is just a minor details. (Transfers could start in summer, for example, and skip fall.) The rest is just for the sake of argument?</p>
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<p>Exactly. And THAT has always been the main point.</p>
<p>More importantly, if I can’t/don’t use a benefit, let’s deny it for EVERYONE.</p>
<p>I find the point of university is to learn, not to gain a degree. I believe that I have read that they would allow students to either use AP or take exams for placement into higher courses. So yes the students will not be able to leave early as they will still have to complete the required number of courses, but they will be able to still complete heavy course loads while maybe being able to pursue other areas of interest.</p>
<p>Sorry if I may have reiterated points people have made - I haven’t quite read every post in this thread.</p>
<p>Another interesting thread on the subject.</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/ap-tests-preparation/747305-how-indicative-ap-scores-college-success.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/ap-tests-preparation/747305-how-indicative-ap-scores-college-success.html</a></p>
<p>One of the biggest things that elite colleges such as D are seeking is diversity so students can learn to tolerate views other than our own and learn how decisions are made (not how to just follow decisions made by others). Lets keep it friendly.</p>
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<p>This example could not be less relevant. D has unusually excellent language programs, including terms abroad ranging from those aimed at students who have taken the equivalent of one year of college language to those who are already fluent. Because of the D plan, a student can easily take more than one semester abroad in a language-intensive program and not miss a step toward graduation.</p>
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<p>That’s one way to look at it. And yes, that is their policy. But from a practical matter, the “benefit” is rarely used at Dartmouth and other highly selective four year colleges. So the better question, is it truly a “benefit” if few even care about it? (Thousands of students attends the Ivies and top LACs every year, and few use such a so-called “benefit”.)</p>
<p>The good news is that there are 3,000 other colleges from which to choose.</p>
<p>I have to disagree with those who maintain that the benefit is rarely used. We are full pay and so were many of dc’s friends and they all used the benefit. The way it is done, one does research rather than take classes so that housing is still available. Yes, we saved one term tuition. I will encourage my next one to take college courses at a local in-state during the summer to achieve the same savings.</p>
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<p>Dartmouth (and Columbia and Harvard) claims that the so-called benefit is rarely used. Are you disagreeing with them?</p>
<p>Yes. I know so. Of course we would have to agree on the quantifiable definition of rare. I think the College would not institute such a new policy unless there was an incentive. A student can avoid an entire term tuition ( currently $14000) by having two ap courses count toward graduation.</p>
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<p>This is incorrect as Dartmouth is the only college I know of that REQUIRES 5 years for an ABET engineering degree. You have to get two degree at Dartmouth: a BA first and then a BS in engineering. And getting two undergrad degrees is of NO use in terms of job placement or starting salaries. </p>
<p>One of the considerations in still going to Dartmouth was that with AP credit you could potentially do both the BA and BS in four years or maybe one extra term. Now with that gone there is no way. I think Thayer faculty need to rethink this or they will be a major disadvantage (or more of a disadvantage).</p>
<p>This seems to me to simply be a variation of the 3-2 engineering programs offered by many liberal arts colleges. Students from other colleges can also earn their BE through Dartmouth.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/the-college-solution/2010/08/31/3-2-engineering-programs-at-liberal-arts-colleges[/url]”>http://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/the-college-solution/2010/08/31/3-2-engineering-programs-at-liberal-arts-colleges</a></p>
<p>[Dual-Degree</a> Program | Thayer School of Engineering at Dartmouth](<a href=“http://www.engineering.dartmouth.edu/academics/undergraduate/dual/]Dual-Degree”>Dartmouth Engineering | Dual-Degree)</p>
<p>Columbia has a similar program.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.studentaffairs.columbia.edu/admissions/learn/academiclife/engineering/combined-plan-program[/url]”>http://www.studentaffairs.columbia.edu/admissions/learn/academiclife/engineering/combined-plan-program</a></p>
<p>its all about money nowadays</p>
<p>Dartmouth’s BE degree programs may not absolutely require 5 years, though 5 years is the “normal” time, so doing it in less time means overloading some quarters (Dartmouth allows a maximum of 3 overload quarters).</p>
<p>[Bachelor</a> of Engineering (B.E.) | Thayer School of Engineering at Dartmouth](<a href=“http://engineering.dartmouth.edu/academics/undergraduate/be/]Bachelor”>Dartmouth Engineering | BE)</p>
<p>The BE degree requires 9 courses beyond the AB, which requires 35 courses. If we assume a normal load of 3 courses per quarter, and taking the maximum of 3 overload quarters with 4 courses, the student will complete the AB degree in 11 quarters (with 1 course beyond the 35 minimum). If the student is allowed to apply the 1 course to the 9 extra for the BE degree, that leaves 8 more, which will take 3 more quarters, or a total of 14 quarters (or 4+2/3 years). This assumes that no credit units are given for AP scores or college courses transferred in.</p>