<p>Article in today's Washington Post:
<a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/prepared-remarks-by-philip-j-hanlon-president-of-dartmouth-college/2014/04/16/149e56b2-c5ad-11e3-9f37-7ce307c56815_story.html">http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/prepared-remarks-by-philip-j-hanlon-president-of-dartmouth-college/2014/04/16/149e56b2-c5ad-11e3-9f37-7ce307c56815_story.html</a></p>
<p><a href=“Bloomberg - Are you a robot?”>Bloomberg - Are you a robot?;
<p>I don’t have a kid at Dartmouth but my D (a junior) briefly considered trying for it…only to be really turned off by the stories of excessive drinking, sexual assault etc. If I were president there, I’d shut down the fraternities or find some way to greatly reduce their impact on the campus…i get it that Dartmouth is considered the Ivy that embraces fraternities and greek life…but a 14% drop in applicants…coupled with the bad press…I’d make drastic changes…</p>
<p>Interesting response to the Post article:</p>
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<p>this topic was also covered in the Boston Glove today … <a href=“Dartmouth vows to curb student misbehavior - The Boston Globe”>Dartmouth vows to curb student misbehavior - The Boston Globe; </p>
<p>No one forces any one to join a fraternity or sorority. No one forces anyone to drink. Sexual assault on campus is a nationwide issue. I’m not going to repeat what I have said many times before. Feel free to search by my username for prior posts in threads that have gone into this issue in detail. I agree with what I think is the main theme of the above posts by @arwarw and @SouthernHope – Dartmouth has an image problem. It’s taking hit after hit in the national media, and there’s not enough attention being paid (my opinion) to the broader problem. </p>
<p>All I can say to students looking at Dartmouth (and their parents) is that my D never had a problem at the college. She had a marvelous four years; I never worried about her (see <a href=“Reasons to Love Dartmouth - Dartmouth College - College Confidential Forums”>Reasons to Love Dartmouth - Dartmouth College - College Confidential Forums); her professors were and are fantastic teachers and mentors; and she’s heading off to grad school at one of the top universities in her field with an unbelievable financial package. </p>
<p>I think it’s just a bump in the road. It happened to Amherst last year and their application numbers recovered this year.</p>
<p>Sure applications will rebound, but the fundamental questions are did the applicant pool change and, if it did, was that change to the benefit of the university overall? That would be interesting to discern.</p>
<p>^^^ Not sure how one would discern quality of the applicant pool. By amount taken from wait list? Drop in SAT scores of admits?</p>
<p>I suppose a progressive drop off in student talent could lead to problems in faculty recruiting - a downward spiral, but the school has been around and prospering 250 + years, and kids are drawn to the Ivy brand like Lemmings. </p>
<p>^^ You mention quality; please note I did not. Given use of the same SAT scores and screening criteria etc, quality really should stay the same. I am talking about the type of student who applies, which can really change the character of the school.</p>
<p>I know Dartmouth well. My sibling went there, and given what is being seen over last few years, would not apply today. That is what I mean. And by benefiting, I can tell you none of the alums I know are donating anymore. That affects endowment and everything else down the line over time.</p>
<p>President Hanlon: “I’m shocked — shocked — to find that drinking is going on in here!”</p>
<p>Dartmouth and the other Ivies could take the next 2,000 students that were rejected and the quality of the class would not suffer.</p>
<p>Just an allegation gets one expelled? Well, this is actually worse. All that is required is an allegation proved false. Hum… I would think twice about being a guy there. </p>
<p>And this article below is from an alum who sent daughter there and personally knows two other girls that went there. </p>
<p><a href=“http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2014/04/at-dartmouth-phil-hanlon-wants-no-enemies-to-the-left.php”>http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2014/04/at-dartmouth-phil-hanlon-wants-no-enemies-to-the-left.php</a></p>
<p>College disciplinary decisions, like civil cases, are not subject to the proof beyond a reasonable doubt standard of criminal law. If the young man really wants to return to Dartmouth, I;m sure his parents can afford the lawsuit. </p>
<p>^^ Agreed, I am aware of what you state. But, it is disturbing that all it takes is an allegation, no proof or substantiation of any sort required. That is a bit scary, whether his parents can afford the lawsuit or not.</p>
<p>No. It’s not just an allegation. There is sworn testimony under oath at the criminal trial. It was not sufficient to persuade a jury of guilt of a crime beyond a reasonable doubt, but the college is not precluded from relying on that same testimony to find a violation of the code of conduct warranting expulsion and/or denial of readmission. Different standard of proof and different elements of the offense. Sorry if I did not make my reasoning clear in my prior post. The former student probably has a right to hearing, if he wishes; if I were his attorney, I would not recommend it. </p>
<p>^^ I agree with you again, and I knew as much. But, your statement reinforces why I think it is scary. </p>
<p>Even if a court cannot find reasonable doubt (several charges were dismissed after actual discovery and before trial) means the standard for the university, which I agree is different, could range all the way down to non-existent. This means dismissal could be from political pressure instead of anything the guy ever did wrong, as he was dismissed before the trial and discovery phase. </p>
<p>I understand the school can literally do whatever it wants on the discipline front, but it does set an impossible standard for the accused because for everything I have read, it really seems just the angst over the allegation was enough to get him dismissed.</p>
<p>If it were me, the subjectivity of the school’s process is scary, especially if I did absolutely nothing wrong. And worse, what if the female was the aggressor, but then changed her tune a couple days later? Then I am up a creek with little recourse. That is scary, at least to me. I understand others may feel differently.</p>
<p>Legally, I completely agree with you too he should just drop it.</p>
<p>I can’t agree with you. It’s no more “scary” than the prospect of a civil lawsuit after being acquitted of criminal charges (Nicole’s family versus O.J. Simpson ring any bells?). Your statement that “the standard … could range all the way down to non-existent” is absurd. The prosecutor had grounds to take the case to trial; the evidence of misconduct was not non-existent.</p>
<p>As far as your fourth paragraph is concerned, I really hope you did not go to law school, are not in law school, and are not planning on going to law school. There’s enough of that attitude already. </p>
<p>We do disagree. </p>
<p>It is more scary than a civil lawsuit because, at least, in a civil lawsuit the proceedings are not based on the whim of a board that may change how it reacts based on school politics, which looks like the case here.</p>
<p>Given there are specific rules to follow in judicial proceedings, there is a definite difference between a board ruling that is not open to the public and the rulings of a judge looking at evidence and jury looking at evidence that are open to the public. Sunlight is a great disinfectant. </p>
<p>However, I still agree with you Dartmouth has the right to do what it wants, but that does not mean it holds up to the smell test to being fair to the accused, as that article points out very methodically.</p>
<p>You are very correct, as I am not a lawyer and not planning on being one. But, I do recommend you bring up your arguments with the article’s author who is Dartmouth '71 and Stanford Law '74 and was one of DC’s top lawyers for 30 years.</p>
<p>As an additional aside, the blog that article is posted on is written by three lawyers (Harvard, Stanford and Minnesota Law) who all graduated Dartmouth and together sent three daughters there. One has been named one of America’s super lawyers just a few years ago. Therefore, I think I have good company in wondering if Dartmouth actions might be questionable and may be deemed scary for accused individuals. They, Dartmouth alums and lawyers, sure think so.</p>
<p>People are free to read the article in the link in my post above and reach their own conclusions.</p>
<p>Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the issue. </p>
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<p>Federal regs.</p>
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<p>Actually, it can be. Again, federal regs: women who are drunk are not able to give consent.</p>
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<p>As a P10, I’ve stayed out of nearly all of these discussions. But I disagree that the problem is only an “image”; IMO, it is much more than that. But it won’t change, regardless of how many committees the new Prez establishes.</p>