<p>Really the only Ivies I have a slight chance of getting in. I really like Cornell (mostly because of its location in NY and away from a big city). It has decent programs and have a class size that I like. So for a while I've been thinking of applying Early Decision to Cornell. One of the factors that I used to choose which school to apply for ED is my chances of getting admitted (I feel like it's not worth the ED if my chances don't improve*, but of course my choice still has to be a school I will enjoy attending). But today I looked up Dartmouth. It's ranked #1 in Undergraduate teaching (Cornell is nowhere in sight) and it is the only other Ivy (besides UPenn) to have high ED admission rates. I gathered up some info on Dartmouth and Cornell and I just can't decide on which to apply for ED. I'm leaning towards Cornell, but there's 1 thing that's really bugging me - Only 11% of students enrolling in Cornell came from the West while 20% of Dartmouth admits are from the West. I'm in California, so that, along with the fact that I'm an Asian male, seriously dents my chances for Cornell. My ranking is not good and my SAT (M+CR) score is 1420.</p>
<p>Cornell:
Located in NY, where I want to go (back)
36% ED admit rate
11% came from West (including CA)
88% from top 10% in HS
Average SAT (M + CR) is 1380</p>
<p>Dartmouth:
Ranked #1 for undergraduates & has a better reputation
26% ED admit rate
20% of admits are from West
91% are top 10% in HS
Average SAT score is 1450</p>
<p>So basically, my chances for Cornell are better EXCEPT for the geographical residence part (huge difference).</p>
<p>I really need advice on what I should do.</p>
<p>*Disclaimer: Cornell states that admission chances do in fact increase if the applicant is applying for ED.</p>
<p>I am planning to visit them next month. Of course I will ask about how much geographical residency weighs in admissions, but I still would like get information on this site in case anything goes amiss.</p>
<p>Well I would say Dartmouth is more selective. I got deferred ED and rejected after but got into Columbia, Brown, Duke, and lots of other schools.</p>
<p>I agree that Dartmouth is more selective than Cornell. For a CA resident, however, the selectivity of these schools is less obvious. As I have stated, 20% of those who are attending Dartmouth starting this fall come from the West, while Cornell only 11% from the West (geographical diversity is something Cornell apparently strongly considers). If it weren’t for this fact Cornell would be my choice for ED without a doubt.</p>
<p>I really hope the difference resulted from a fewer number of applicants from CA that applied to Cornell, but this isn’t likely the case.</p>
<p>I don’t really understand what your concern is, if the number is currently 11%, of 13,000 undergraduates this is still likely more individuals than Dartmouth right. I don’t think being from California is any “hook”, though what do I know. There are people there coming from all over. Though the contract colleges there attract a disporportionate share of NYS residents which likely skews the percentages, a situation which Dartmouth does not share. IMO suggest decide where you most would like to attend and apply there if your credentials seem to fit. Period.</p>
<p>My concern is that CA residents have a smaller chance of getting into Cornell (11% vs. Dartmouth’s 20%) because of Cornell’s emphasis on geographical diversity. I’m not saying that coming from CA is a hook; I’m saying the exact opposite. In all other areas (GPA, etc.), however, Dartmouth is more selective.</p>
<p>Bottom line: For a CA resident, which college (Cornell CAS vs. Dartmouth) gives a higher chance of admission.</p>
That is precisely the case. A big part of Cornell’s student body comes from New York (about 30%); a very small part of Dartmouth’s student body comes from New Hampshire (about 2%). Dartmouth’s out-of-state pool is, in proportion to each school’s respective student population, significantly larger. There’s no point in doing any math now; the difference is negligible. At the end of the day you should just apply to the one you like the most. If it all merely lies in the one that is easier to get into, go for Cornell.</p>
<p>To draw this conclusion you would need to know how many people from California applied to each of these universities, with given levels of credentials, and how many were accepted. And then compare to candidates from other states. Instead, all you have is the % of total freshman class that actually showed up, which is not nearly the same thing. </p>
<p>I’ve never heard anything to suggest that there is any kind of “California quota” at Cornell, it is highly unlikely IMO.</p>
<p>First of all, you can’t conclude from those stats that it’ll be easier for you, as a Californian, to get into Dartmouth. There are so many confounding variables involved that it’s impossible for you to make that conclusion, such as # of total CA applicants, credentials of CA applicants relative to other states, etc. Oh and not to mention the fact that the stats you’re giving are for ALL WESTERN applicants, not just CA.</p>
<p>Second of all, this isn’t how ED works. You’re supposed to apply ED to the school you love the most, not the one that’ll be easiest for you to get into because then you’ll be stuck there. Dartmouth and Cornell are DRASTICALLY different in almost every aspect except for the Ivy tag, so do some research and pick which one you LIKE better. It seems as if you’re only after the Ivy tag and you want to be guaranteed that through ED, and that’s definitely not the way to go.</p>
<p>If you would be applying to one of the endowed colleges at Cornell, then the chances for admission from CA are probably similar to Dartmouth. If you are applying to Cornell Arts and Sciences or Engineering, then the selectivity would be similar to Dartmouth.</p>
<p>So the chances are similar? But I’m still puzzled at Cornell’s dramatically low acceptance rate of Western residents, compared to other Ivies.</p>
<p>Unless this this geographical factor does in fact severely reduce my chances, I will apply to Cornell ED. Its programs really represent what I want.</p>
<p>Sucks that anything that seems too good always has a small hole in it.</p>
<p>@YeloPen: Berkeley was originally my top choice. I didn’t even care about Ivies back then, but after researching and thinking for a while, Cornell does in fact match what I want to in college, which is why I decided that I will apply Early Decision. Think of this from a logical point of view: If applying ED, even if it’s to my top choice, won’t increase my chances for admission, why would I bind myself when there’s still the regular decision option? What made Dartmouth came to mind is the fact that it is ranked 1st in undergraduate teaching (and it has the majors I’m interested in), which made me question if Cornell is really the school that will provide me with the best opportunities. </p>
<p>But I admit I know little about Dartmouth. Could you explain the difference between it and Cornell?</p>
<p>I think geography is very rarely a factor in college admissions and when it’s used, it’s mostly for accepting students from underrepresented states rather than limiting admits from larger states. There will be no severe disadvantage for you between applying to Cornell and Dartmouth ED. I personally don’t know why there’s the difference you mentioned (again, there are too many variables), but crazybandit’s explanation certainly sounds plausible.</p>
<p>Cornell and Dartmouth are both great schools, I don’t think you can go wrong at either one. There are some major differences, though. Cornell is a HUGE school; it’s around 20k students and that puts it closer to a public school setting than a private school. Dartmouth, on the other hand, has about 6k total students. Dartmouth’s small size makes it very undergraduate-oriented, and is probably the reason it’s teaching is ranked #1. Dartmouth is also known for having a huge Greek system influence, a lot of partying, etc. (not sure about Cornell in that respect). Cornell is very strong in engineering and the sciences; I got the impression that Dartmouth was more humanities-oriented but I could be completely off on that. Cornell is in Ithaca, NY and Dartmouth is in Hanover, NH; both are pretty isolated but surroundings-wise I think they’re very, very different.</p>
<p>I’m hardly the most knowledgeable about these schools, so I recommend you do a bit of research yourself. But I mean if you love Cornell that much, I would just do ED there and not worry about Dartmouth.</p>
<p>Have you taken AP Stats? Do you understand the fact that matriculants on campus does not necessarily equate with “acceptance” rate? Heck, for all we know, Cornell could accept a higher proportion of California residents, but they go elsewhere bcos Cornell’s finaid is not as good as Dartmouth’s… Moreover, Cornell’s total stats are swayed by the fact that its Contract colleges take more New Yorkers (they are partially supported by NY State), whereas CAS does not.</p>
<p>That being said, Cornell ED is an “easier” admit than Dartmouth, but not by a whole lot if applying to CAS.</p>
<p>fwiw: IMO, you would be foolish to apply ED to a college that you have never seen.</p>
<p>Not really. While Cornell falls in the upper tier of medium sized, it is nevertheless not “huge” compared to the largest U.S. universities – not even close. Note the undergraduate student population stats listed below:</p>
<p>Largest US Universities by Undergrad Population Fall 2008</p>
<p>Ranking University Location Enrollment</p>
<p>1 University of Central Florida FL 42,933
2 University of Texas at Austin TX 39,000
3 Arizona State University AZ 38,627
4 Ohio State University OH 38,479
5 Texas A&M University TX 38,430
6 Pennsylvania State University PA 37,988
7 University of Florida FL 35,528
8 Michigan State University MI 34,853
9 Purdue University IN 32,377
10 Florida State University FL 31,508</p>
<p>.
.
.
New York University NY 21,638
.
Boston University MA 18,534
.
University of Southern Cal CA 16,384
.
.
Cornell University NY 13,931</p>
<p>This thread can be closed, or ignored. I’ve decided that regardless of my chances for Cornell, if I were to apply to ED for a school, it’ll be Cornell.</p>
<p>Weird, I had this same dilemma last year. My advice is to not apply ED unless you’ve visited and feel absolutely certain that your ED school is your #1 choice. It’s just not worth it to get a severe case of cold feet about a four-year commitment.</p>
<p>Edit: Whoops, just read your last post. That makes it a lot easier then.</p>
<p>Please show me where specifically on Cornell’s website it gives the following exact information, give the precise link and also write in the numbers for me:</p>
<p>How many Western state residents applied to Cornell last year?
How many of these Western state applicants did Cornell accept? </p>
<p>Not % matriculants, that is off-point.</p>
<p>I want # who applied and # of these that were accepted. Only that information would support your contention that Cornell has a dramatically low acceptance rate for this group of students. Matriculants are not acceptees. % of matriculants need not correspond to # applicants and # admitted.</p>
<p>If a # of good students from the West coast apply to Dartmouth, and the same # apply to Cornell, and each school admits the same % of them, and the same % of them accept the offer,
That # of matriculating west coast students will show up as a much bigger % of Dartmouth’s student body than Cornell’s. Because Cornell has a larger class. Even though they both accepted the same % of West coast applicants.</p>