Dartmouth or Amherst (In relation to campus culture, major, overall experience, etc)

College Search & Selection
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Hi all!

So I posted a thread like this about two weeks ago, asking for advice on which school I should attend. But I mainly got responses that focused on my financial aid situation, and not much that related to whether or not the campuses would be good fits for me. So I’m posting this in hopes that someone could give me some advice as to which campus I might be feel more at home on.

So to start out, I am a Black woman who is a part of the LGBT community, and I am not at all a fan of drinking, frats, or any real party scene. I am also going into Computer Science, and I’m pretty nerdy- think D&D, video games, anime, stuff like that. Dartmouth’s Comp Sci program is amazing, and Amherst’s department pales in comparison, which is influencing my decision. Dartmouth’s Comp Sci course catalog was super exciting when I looked at it, and Amherst’s is just wayyy too small for comfort. I also want to have a secure job when I graduate, and I want to go into video game development as a programmer. Dartmouth’s D-Plan system would be great for helping me get an internship, and their alum network would also really help me secure a well-paying job out of school- plus, a lot of their internships are paid, so I’ll even be able to get a head start on my loans. But on the flip side, Amherst has a very liberal and sort of hippie campus whose vibe I really dig. Dartmouth is very white and elite and that scares me a little bit, as I am nervous I’ll get onto campus and feel totally isolated and alone. I also don’t like greek life and don’t want to drink, so I’m worried that’ll put a damper on my life at Dartmouth. Plus, frats aren’t known to be LGBTQ-friendly.

Also, the student body. They definitely don’t seem very “alternative” as far as I can tell. I’ve already made a pretty close-knit group of friends in my Amherst admit group chat, and they’re fantastic. But they’re mostly “alternative” kids", mainly LGBT minority students from lower-income families. Dartmouth, from the outside, doesn’t seem like it houses those same type of people. I don’t think I should rule out Dartmouth just because I’ve bonded with some folks from another school, but I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t worried about making friends on Dartmouth’s campus.

Dartmouth’s rigor also is a little concerning. I’m from a large public high school where I didn’t have to try super hard to get through my classes. This isn’t because I’m a brainiac, it’s because my school is underfunded with massive classes that let me get ahead because they weren’t all that challenging. I’m worried I’ll get to Dartmouth(or Amherst, honestly, though it seems easier in some regards) and get totally melted by the first math class I take, no matter how hard I work. It’s all pretty intimidating.

I hope someone can provide some insight! The deadline is coming up to pick a school, and I’m no closer to settling on one now than I was two weeks ago.

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I will start by answering your main question: Dartmouth (beyond the academics) does not seem like a very good fit for you.

Next and you probably aren’t going to like this, you can’t separate the financial situation from your decision…they are inextricably linked.

Have your parents appealed the FA offers from Dartmouth, Amherst and/or any other schools? It looks like you estimated you would need to take $80K-$100K in loans for undergrad at these two schools, is that still the case? Have you talked to your parents about that, as everything over $27K will be on them?

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Luckily, that’s no longer the case- I would only be taking about 40k in loans out for school total, as my parents have figured out how they’ll be able to come up with the rest.

I feel the same way that Dartmouth might not be a great fit outside the academics, so I appreciate that advice =) Definitely have to think about it a bit more.

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That’s good that the finances seem to be more clear now.

I realize that Amherst’s CS dept isn’t as large as Dartmouth’s, but have you looked into how the consortium works at Amherst, and how many CS classes you could take at UMass-Amherst (a school that has excellent CS)? That could be a good compromise, but I am not sure whether there are limitations on taking classes at the other consortium schools, but something to research.

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I’ve researched it a bit! I do love Umass Amherst’s comp sci program(it seems on par with Dartmouth’s, actually) but then I kind of go back to eyeing Dartmouth’s prestige, alum network, and D-plan, which make me think Dartmouth might be worth it a bit more. I also don’t love the idea of having to commute off-campus at Amherst to Umass, but it could definitely work.

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Good job looking into UMass Amherst, and I agree their CS offering is at least on par with Dartmouth’s. I do think there are regular shuttles going to and from consortium schools, something else to research. Have you met admitted Dartmouth students that are your peeps, similar to the Amherst ones?

Thoughts @1NJParent @MYOS1634 @collegemom3717 @ucbalumnus @eyemgh ?

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Gotcha, I’ll definitely look into them! Thanks for bringing that up, I’ll check it out. I have met a handful of admitted Dartmouth students, but 2/3 that I became good friends with ended up committing elsewhere. There is one student who I have become really good friends with who is committed to Dartmouth but other than that I haven’t really gotten to know anyone else.

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Regarding UMass’ CS courses, check how easily consortium students can register for them (particularly upper level courses you may have to take because Amherst does not offer a similar course). At UMass, CS is a limited enrollment major, so there are some capacity issues which may mean that UMass CS majors may get priority to register for the upper level CS courses over consortium students. Find out how true this is.

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My thought is that I’d choose the school you feel most comfortable at and make it work.

We were all (my son, wife and I) pretty underwhelmed with Dartmouth’s engineering, but CS is different and not something I can add much value about.

I would however buy the book below. It’s one of the earlier books by a multi-time NYT best seller who himself went to Dartmouth and had to learn how to efficiently study. He got poor grades for the first time in his life. He ended up at MIT for his PhD and now teaches CS at Georgetown. You probably are a Straight A student. Don’t be distracted by that. It’s about efficiency, which by your admission, you don’t have. You’ll thank me later. :wink:

You are at an extra disadvantage. Many schools will accept students with your background, but they won’t support them. They ultimately get cast off. You do not want to waste the wonderful opportunity in front of you because the infrastructure wasn’t there for you. Bring it with you, regardless of what you’ve read. Also, be prepared to feel a bit on the outside. You have several unique qualities that the typical student at those schools won’t know how to relate to. Be ready and you will thrive!

Congrats and best of luck!

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Dartmouth certainly has more to offer in CS (compared to Amherst by itself). Prof. Cormen there wrote the standard and widely-used textbook on algorithms. Whether OP can take advantage of the UMass consortium to offset some of Amherst’s deficiencies in that area may be an open question. It may take more effort than OP is willing to put in. Things like scheduling conflicts may make the option unfeasible except in a very few cases. However, I’m not sure OP is yet fully commited to the major and I agree Amherst is an overall better fit for the OP.

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Dartmouth would be a poor fit, imo. I’d recommend Amherst. You have a very good handle on the pros and cons of both. Your assessments are largely correct.

Glad the finances work. $40k in loans is not unreasonable.

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I checked it out, and it seems like at Umass CS is a really packed major, with CS courses having priority over any other colleges, so I think that would make things difficult when it comes to getting into certain classes.

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Gotcha, thanks! I appreciate your opinion, and I’m glad to hear that 40k isn’t too bad for loans. I was a bit worried about that. I’m leaning towards Amherst, so I’m glad to get another check on that side.

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@1NJParent I think that it would take more effort than I’d like to take courses at Umass, and I do think it might be difficult to get into any of the classes I want to take. I am pretty much set on Computer Science though, but I do think Amherst might be the best fit for me. Thanks for your reply! =)

@eyemgh I really appreciate your answer! I will definitely keep what you said about efficiency in mind, as I see the same thing happening to me when I get to wherever I’m going, lol. I’ve never had to spend a lot of time studying. But I have heard minority students are at a disadvantage at these schools, and I really appreciate your advice. Thank you for your response! It was definitely a confidence booster =)

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Nobody can really take advantage of all of the opportunities at any of these colleges. A brilliant prof can be life-changing- or not. Being around a lot of people who are very different than you can expand your world, or leave you feeling isolated.

In the long run, I think that most people do their best when they are in an environment in which they can thrive OR in which they are very clear that they are making a specific trade-off for something that is worth it. It is not clear to me that the benefits you cite of Dartmouth (D plan, better overall ranking) are enough better in absolute terms to outweigh the costs of being in an environment that is uncomfortable. Amherst also has an amazing network, they can help you get internships, and you can make the Consortium work for you.

There are two parts to everything: what you give and what you get, and it’s the balance that is the key. Are the benefits of what you are getting worth what you are giving up to get them?

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FYI Cormen is retiring after this year.

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Plus, how many well employed CS/SE grads studied what Coreman developed, but were taught by someone else? Everyone at every other strong CS program that isn’t Dartmouth. :wink:

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I get the hesitance with Dartmouth. My own child wouldn’t apply based on some impression she had of the undergrad population. I do think, however, that if you have your groove (nerdy is great by me) you will find your peeps at Dartmouth and it has a lot to offer. I think the Frat/Sorority scene is not what I think of (with dread) from the colleges of my day but an open, accepting environment. That said, I think you could never set foot in one and be happy at Dartmouth. Amherst is also a great school and because of U Mass he constortium feels bigger than it is. You really cannot go wrong, I think. I’m not promoting Dartmouth over Amherst just playing devil’s advocate. Also, congratulations! This was an exceptionally challenging year and your have great choices. You must be a superstar.

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The point isn’t about Cormen. It’s just an example of Dartmouth’s relatively stronger CS faculty than Amherst’s. Dartmouth also offers significantly greater breadth and depth in its CS offerings.

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Apparently, consortium students need to use the override process to get into UMass CS courses (UMass CS majors use the normal registration system called SPIRE): https://www.cics.umass.edu/ugrad-education/overrides