I would second this analysis.
I have to back this up. CS courses are a nightmare to get into even in your college of primary enrollment. I WOULD NOT count on being able to cross enroll for CS. Can I suggest you talk to Dartmouth honestly about your reservations? Give them a chance to convince you? I know my kid hates doing that kind of thing and this year hasnāt made it any easier, but I really think it is worth it.
That sounds like a good idea- My dadās actually an alum at Dartmouth, and funnily enough, has been trying to convince me of the same thing lol! But Iāll reach out and get some student testimonials to see how they feel about the school =) CS is a big deal to me, so I donāt want to miss out on courses.
Yay! Go Dad! Seriously man. My child goes to school with a lot of future serious CS folks like you and one thing I hear about a lot is that CS is really āhotā in the sense that tons of people thing they want to major in it. So gatekeeping is a real problem at a lot of universities. If CS is important to you, go to the place that will make sure you get the coursework you need. I totally, 100% get your reservations, but I will tell you hand to my heart I know a lot of nerds (I say this as a fellow nerd) who are very happy at Dartmouth.
I too know lots of nerds who are happy at Dartmouth. Perhaps not coincidentally, they do not tend to be queer Black women.
You feel like Amherst is qualitatively different in this respect? Genuinely interested .
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LOL, itās telling how defensive the Dartmouth boosters get. In any case, Iāve never been to Amherst so I canāt speak definitively about it, but from my HS friend who goes there, it seems like a more supportive place for QPOC than Dartmouth.
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I went to Columbia. Iām not a Dartmouth booster. I just know they have a good CS department. There are a lot of other schools with good CS departments I might rec, but this is what is on the table. Your friend from HS notwithstanding, I still think OP should ask Dartmouth directly to be put in touch with people who might be able to speak to this. On these sites, I worry a little that people on waitlists might be pushing narratives for their own ends so I think itās fair to ask for details.
I still think OP should ask Dartmouth directly to be put in touch with people who might be able to speak to this
If any prospective freshmen besides OP happen to be reading this, I just want to say a few quick things:
- Hello!
- Do NOT ask Dartmouth directly to put you in touch with people who have similar interests / backgrounds as you. The school will refer you to the Admissions Office, who will refer you to only the most enthusiastic Dartmouth students who definitely donāt represent the overall views of the student body. The Admissions Office also has a history of hiding stuff under the rug (i.e. Wallace Chen incident, forcing the tour guides to specifically avoid walking around the places on campus near frat houses, etc.), so theyāre not exactly the most trustworthy source of information.
- If you have concerns about Dartmouth or are debating between Dartmouth and another school, PM me and Iāll be glad to put you in touch with people who have similar backgrounds and interests as you do (Iām currently a Dartmouth sophomore). I can be especially helpful for queer women of color and anyone interested in social justice. I promise whoever Iāll put you in contact with will be way more honest than the people Admissions tries to set you up with
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Hey @unsure2021. Dartmouth sophomore here, I just wanted to ask if youāve actually visited Dartmouth? Like most elite schools, Dartmouth used to be very white, but is now almost half nonwhite, so far more diverse than you seem to have heard. Iām Indian (i.e. south asian), and have felt very comfortable on campus so far. While I am not LGBT+, we have a large and active LGBT+ association, and large pride festivals every year. My friends who are LGBT+ have felt very comfortable here. Also, for the past few years, around 15% of each incoming class has been first gen. They have an extra week of orientation at the beginning of the year to help them adjust, with talent shows and stuff included. There is even a floor exclusively for first gen students of they want to give them a support network. As an international student, I was on campus for international orientation which was at the same time as theirs, and we all had a lot of fun getting to know one another and bond.
As for drinking, I have NEVER felt pressure to drink when I go out, even to party, and I didnāt at all the first few weeks I was at college. Furthermore, while we do have an active greek life scene, for most people, greek life is just one part of what they do at Dartmouth and most have far wider social circles beyond their greek society. Most donāt even live in their house. So, itās quite possible to have an active social life without joining a greek house. Furthermore, a number of greek houses are gender inclusive, and donāt actually hold many parties. Many are just hang out spaces, and hold milk and cookie nights, or play video games much of the time The term āgreek lifeā applies pretty loosely to what we have here. There are a few houses where the toxic white male culture still pervades, but they are the minority. It has become increasingly hard for that culture to continue since the vast majority of greek life events are open to all students. I was not a partier in high school, but I eventually became more of one through my first couple terms since the toxicity that surrounded party culture back home doesnāt exist in most party spaces Iāve been too. The people I party with are not shallow harcore alcoholics, but fellow nerds who just want to have some fun.
Of course, if you really donāt want to party, then YOU DONāT HAVE TO. There are plenty more things going on on your average weekend than that. Our board game society has dozens of regular members and many more visitors, and meet every friday and saturday. On saturday nights, if you donāt want to go out to party, the anime society holds very well attended watch parties with free pizza. The groupme for both of these societies have over a 100 members each, clearly demonstrating how many people are interested. There are movies, improv and theater shows, trivia nights etc. Thatās not including just hanging out with your friends in dorms working, hanging out, or watching shows and movies, which trust me will end up being a substantial social outlet.
Basically, the majority of Dartmouth students, like students in most colleges, will go to party on your average friday night, but the majority of dartmouth students are also quite nerdy. So they will often go to nerdy social outlets too. I went to parties for a few hours every week, but I also did a four hour D&D game every week. That game has continued through the pandemic. There were a bunch of running D&D sessions when I was on campus, and many freely take in new people when the new studnets come along, The board game society also helps new students set up their own games, and even providing Dungeon Masters if there is enough interest.
And there are PLENTY of people who donāt even party at all if you look a little. But, as I said before, you may end up going to the occasional since the people you go with will be a lot more like you, and so youāll end up feeling a lot more comfortable in those spaces.
In sum, Dartmouth is a very diverse and extremely quirky place (partly a function. of our relative isolation), and I believe everyone can feel comfortable here. We have a tradition called āflairā which is just that students occasionally show up to class wearing ridiculous things like onesies, costumes or guys wearing skirts etc. This isnāt a halloween thing, people do this any day they feel like it. You are free to let your freak flag fly high! We also have a lot of traditions like first year trips which really encourage community bonding around shared experiences, more so than any school I know of. My friend groups here are intensely nerdy, and include many minority, LGBT+ and international students, and we have all found our place here and loved it while we were on campus. I was personally there for only two quarters, and have been dying to get back for over a year.
As for the academic side of things, our com sci program is definitely better than Amherst. If youāre worrying about getting crushed in class, I would just say that since most of our classes are small and almost all taught by professors, you will have a lot more individual attention to be able to deal with increased academic rigour. This is probably true of Amherst as well though.
Furthermore, I have heard that since Amherst is like half athletes and very small, they dominate the social scene to large extent. Of course, like for Dartmouth, my info may be dated, but thatās something to consider. I was applying several small LACs along with Dartmouth, but chose to ED Dart since they all seemed too small for me. I wanted more options in terms of academics, social life and people to meet than those colleges seemed to offer me.
Donāt get me wrong, Dartmouth has its fair share of problems. But you wonāt have trouble finding social outlets here, that I can guarantee.
If you have any more questions, feel free to reach out. We seem to share a lot of common nerdy interests, so Iād be happy to tell you more about them.
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Quick addition i thought iād make, since CS is such a popular major at Dartmouth, there are multiple sections of the major courses, and they also run them multiple times a year. Dartmouthās undergrad focus makes that possible, as well as having every section taught by professors not teaching assistants. So, you wonāt have too much trouble getting into the necessary CS courses here.
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Hi again!
Iāve made a couple of posts in the last few weeks mostly comparing Amherst and Dartmouth. Iāve come to a pretty solid conclusion regarding the two schools now that Iāve actually visited both of the campuses. But in all honesty, Iām still not sure what to pick, and Iām feeling pretty burned out. Iām like six seconds away from just giving up and hiding under my covers until May 1st comes and goes. So if anyone wants to help out an extremely stressed out senior, Iād appreciate it!
Amherst is definitely the school I feel best at. I really enjoyed my time walking around the own, I love the people, the courses seem great, the diversiy is fantastic, the lack of greek life is super enticing, and overall I think Iād be happiest at Amherst. The only reason I havenāt committed is because Dartmouth, my other choice, is more prestigious, and their CS program is better.
When I visited Dartmouth I loved the campus- it was totally breathtaking. But I didnāt feel nearly as comfortable walking around the town like I had Amherst. I walked through the town by myself to get a t-shirt, and I, for a lack of better description, felt kind of tiny and out of place. It was like I was the most underdressed person in a six mile radius. I wasnāt super comfortable there. The two people I chatted with were kind, but I didnāt click with them like I did with the people at Amherst. But Dartmouthās CS program is really, really good. And the D-plan plus the alum network would get me employed anywhere in the world. I figure maybe I could commit to Dartmouth and trasnfer if I hate it, but I donāt really want to do that.
Amherst is a brilliant school in its own right, but its not a very techy school. Iām taking out 33k(or so) loans for school(total! not per year) and so I want to make sure Iām not going to graduate without a job/with a job that is high paying. I know at Dartmouth that wonāt be an issue, but I canāt say the same for Amherst. Iāve also heard the CS program is mediocre, and I am really interested in Computer Science, so that puts me off. The 5 College Consortium is really nice, but Iāve heard its super hard to get into Umass Amherst Comp sci classes. Iām just super nervous about taking that risk, I guess.
So this is where Iām stuck at. Iāve made a bunch of posts, talked to a ton of alumni, spoke to students, and laid awake for like four nights straight agonizing over this choice. My Dad, a Dartmouth alum, says Iāll be making a mistake if I pass up on Dartmouth- I donāt want him to be righ about that, and in four years be wishing I went with Dartmouth. I donāt want to limit myself by passing on Dartmouth, espcially when I donāt know for sure I wonāt like it there. I just know I will like it at Amherst. Iām excited when I think about Amherst, but not so much when it comes to Dartmouth. Iāve talked to sooo many people with tons of different opinions, but I really am not sure. I know CS isnāt something that really depends on the prestige of the school, but Iām worried that if I pass on an ivy league school I wonāt be able to get as far I guess? Iām just more scared than anything lol. Any advice would be appreciated!
Sounds like your heart is set on Amherst. Donāt second guess yourself. Amherst is not going to close any doors. Congrats on the decision.
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Amherst is every bit as prestigious as Dartmouth and possibly more so. Donāt second guess your judgment re fit. Go to Amherst and have a wonderful four years.
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In terms of the CS departments, try comparing the upper level CS course offerings at Amherst and Dartmouth. Are there many courses that appear interesting to you that are available at one but not the other? If not, then the difference between the CS departments may not be that big a deal.
There are only liiike three classes that I like more at Dartmouth than I do Amherst, and they are actually offered at Umass Amherst. The biggest one is the Software Engineering class, which is my biggest interest. Other than that, the difference between the departments isnāt a huge deal for me.
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Agree with the others, you have already made up your mind.
I am very attuned to prestige, and Iām here to tell you that Amherst is more prestigious than Dartmouth. The Ivy Leagues is an athletic conference. It doesnāt dispense magic dust that transports schools to another realm. Dartmouth is a great, prestigious school, no doubt. But Amherst is that slightly more elite. None of this would matter except this seems to be something thatās causing you some conflict.
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I donāt know what world a certain above poster lives in, but Dartmouth is definitely no less elite than Amherst. In terms of prestige, Dartmouth in fact has an dge for producing a higher number of high achieving alumni than Amherst. In proportion, they are likely to be similar however.
They are both excellent schools, and prestige is the worst reason to decide on a school in any case. I applied early decision to Dartmouth, over the entreaties of several family members to apply early tp other schools I had hooks at, including some more prestigious than Dartmouth. In fact, those hooks might have been what dissuaded me from applying to those schools. That may be a factor in your decision here. I certainly didnāt want to attend my fatherās alma mater. Now, that doesnāt mean you shouldnāt consider uour options carefully based on the merits for your wants and needs.
In terms of program, Dartmouth CS is definitely ahead of Amherstās. Itās not just the course offerings but the fact the faculty are all engaged in high level research , which undergrads are favored to take part in (which they can given we have the resources of a research university). This opportunity for research in fact attracts higher level CS faculty to Dartmouth. The department also has an off-campus study program in CS which is not only fun but also really helps your professional and personal development.We also have a larger and more well connected network in silicon valley. The Dartmouth club even has a branch there with hundreds of members.
But the major program is not the only reason to pick a college. especially a liberal arts college where 2/3 of your courses are likely to be outside your major. If the other academic and extracurricular options at Amherst excite you so much beyond their equivalents at Dartmouth, then maybe those will make you far more comfortable at and more able to achieve at Amherst, and more than make up for the difference in terms of CS opportunities. Just be sure to have done the right research to see the options at Dartmouth.
Also about your visit - I donāt kniow when you visited, but from my personal experience I doubt there is ever a time you could truly be underdressed here. We have a tradition called āflairā where, whenver students feel like it, they come to class and go to meetings wearing very weird stuff. This includes guys wearing dresses, people in animal onesies, people wearing brightly colored propeller caps and sunglasses, and basically anything weird you can think of. This is something just generally accepted at campus as normal. We are certainly not a preppy school in terms of attire, you can pretty much wear generally comfortable stuff.
Just to be clear, Iām not trying to say one school is better than the other for you, because how can I know that? This is a holistic decision, you need to take everything into account. Just make sure to do all the right research, and make a fully informed decision. That way, youāll know itās the right one.
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I would echo what the Dartmouth people posted above. My daughter is a recent grad. She had a guy in her class that never wore shoes - even when there was snow on the ground. There were others that wore full make up each day and some that consistently wore pajamas to class or never changed out of shorts and a sweatshirt. She had friends on full financial aid and others that regularly flew private. Although it might not happen immediately, if you join things that youāre interested in and go to campus events, youāll eventually find your people.
All right, Iāll backtrack ever so slightly to say ā there is no difference is prestige between these two schools. They are super elite, the top of the top, and any distinction on the prestige front is hairsplitting. Put prestige as a concern away. Itās a wash.
Youāve said you are most comfortable at and like Amherst best. Done!
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