Dartmouth or Princeton?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Dartmouth College
21

<p>damn BigGreen, do you have to sound so hostile all the time? maybe g-unti87 isn't all that familiar w/ all those facts you stated, which was why (s)he put his/her concern out there.</p>

<p>in response to bean001, IMO princeton's pretty "laid-back" compared to say, harvard. what turned me off was their eating clubs which screamed 'elitism' to me. and the fact that this princeton alumni who was visiting our school said that being a minority student (that includes azn) might even help one get into the most popular eating clubs just bothered me even more b/c i don't want to be accepted into a group that feels it's obligated to accept me to be politically correct.</p>

22

<p>Ah taurustorus...even slipper had to rationalize BigGreen after he basically lashed out at the kid. Moreover, the fact that I have been involved in other heated debates does not nullify my ability to be rational and help others make a choice. To be honest, I am slightly offended that you would use my prior history as a way of denegrading my opinions.</p>

<p>Princeton is not Dartmouth laid-back, but there is PLENTY to do there. NJ is a very bustling place and it is safe on campus (unlike Duke). So, it is not like Dartmouth has a completely better social life. You know, it's quite ironic that people on this board say that Dartmouth has one of the best social scenes because most people are not aware of that. Most people that I go to school with were already turned off by the "middle of nowhere" stereotype and chose not to even apply. I do not believe that, but those were their opinions. Also, you will have SOOOO much fun is NJ that it is unreal. You most likely won't need a car, so traffic wont be an issue.</p>

23

<p>One more thing, taurustorus: Where in my former post did it appear as if I was "taking [my bitterness] out on the rest of [you]?" Just because I praised another school that could be an alternative to Dartmouth I am viewed as hostile by you. I have no problems with you, and I was on this board in anxiety for my Dartmouth acceptance letter just like everybody else. If I was "bitter" towards Dartmouth, I would not have applied.</p>

24

<p>you don't think we were offended that you called us "militant" just b/c BigGreen can't be nice? besides, if you actually (and calmly) read my original post, you'd see that i wasn't using your "prior history as a way of denegrading" your opinions. i was just saying that this sentence --> "I must voice that you guys are WAY too militant about Dartmouth" probably stemmed more from how you've been treated in other threads than the real attitude of this thread (by the time i originally posted, at least; it's turned real sour since, i have to say). that in no way affected the validity of your opinions on princeton. also, when you see me quoting people, it's not to be sarcastic, it's to give them due credit (you might've been offended that i wrote "think twice" with the quotation marks; i did that not to put your opinion down, but to show that i took out that phrase from someone else's post.)</p>

25

<p>ok, no no. huge misunderstanding here. that whole "bitterness" thing wasn't b/c i thought you liked p'ton better than dartmouth. hell, princeton rocks. read the post i just put up.</p>

26

<p>Taurustorus, why should you be offended by me saying that [this board] is militant about Dartmouth? After all, I would take enormous pride in the school that I am willing to shell thousands of dollars into. Maybe saying "too" militant was a mistake. However, my problem arises in the way gunit was responded to. No, the advantages to Princeton were not discussed. The only responses I have read have been a litony of statements in Dartmouth's defense. Although people like slipper have always responded in a respectful manner, I believe that the kid was not presented an alternative. What are the good qualities in Princeton? We know that Dartmouth is tight-knit...is Princeton? Those questions should have been addressed as well.</p>

<p>I suppose I do not blame you guys for the manner in which the question was addressed. This is the Dartmouth board and I think gunit flew into a plethora of bias the moment he chose to ask this question on a board specialized for Dartmouth kids. Gunit, I would try posting this on a neutral board...like Upenn, Columbia, etc.</p>

27

<p>yep, you're right, you shouldn't blame us for not being too helpful in pushing for princeton b/c many of us didn't even consider it when applying to colleges (not b/c it's bad), and thus wouldn't know much about it (and those who DID apply there but are picking dartmouth for one reason or another are obviously going to say "go to dartmouth!!". if that's a problem for you then i guess it's good that you're here to balance the bias). besides, i think we're doing a much better job than the peeps who replied to g-unti87 in the p'ton's forum b/c at least we give reasons why dartmouth rocks, whereas if you check out the same thread in the p'ton's forum people were just basically saying "p'ton!! p'ton!!" w/o giving any reasons (ok, this is an exaggeration; i think one person said "closer to NY and philly" or something, but there were more posts that just said "princeton"). heck, you're doing a hell of a better job rooting for princeton even tho you're going to duke.</p>

28

<p>Good point. HAVE FUN AT DARTMOUTH!</p>

29

<p>FountainSiren, you're an idiot. I never said to ignore your experiences at a school, I just said one should be careful about judging an entire student body after a single visit.<br>
That being said, Princeton and Dartmouth are very similar schools but if you really like Dartmouth then go ahead and have fun. However, having a good deal of experience at both schools (unlike most posters) and since the Princeton defense has been a bit weak, here goes nothing:</p>

<p>Academics:
Princeton and Dartmouth will both offer one a fantastic education but if there is any advantage to be had here, Princeton has it. The sizes of both schools are comparable and undergraduate focus equal (Princeton has no professional schools, Dartmouth has small professional schools) so there would be no difference here. Princeton currently posts a 5/1 student to faculty ratio while Dartmouth is 9/1 (these stats are from USNews 2003). Nevertheless, both will have tons of small classes and speaking from my experience in Princeton, most of my non-intro classes have been quite small (8-15 students, and thats as a freshman). As for the intro classes, they are usually broken down into smaller preceptorials which really give you the best of a large lecture by a renowned professor and the experience of a smaller learning environment. I don't have much knowledge about Dartmouth in this respect but I can't imagine it being much different. Princeton students also tend to place into better graduate programs that Dartmouth ones according to some WSJ study I saw a while back but I really wouldn't pay much attention to that. Additionally, Princeton's programs are basically stronger across the board. With world-renowned departments in Economics, Physics, Mathematics, History and Philosophy, Princeton is host to quite a few Nobel Laureates and some of today's greatest minds (John Nash, Joyce Carol Oates, Andrew Wiles, Cornel West, Ed Witten (Institute of Advanced Study). Dartmouth has its share of scholars as well but Princeton to my knowledge, Princeton has a faculty of greater renown (whether measured by Nobel Prizes or NRC Faculty Rankings). To what extent this would effect the quality of one's undergraduate education is arguable but its something to keep in mind. </p>

<p>Campus- Princeton is in a small town and close to New York City and Philadelphia. Dartmouth is in an isolated part of New Hampshire but this isolation has its benefits, ie. a more outdoorsy campus (ski slope and all!). Both are also incredibly safe campuses and I would venture to say the safest among the Ivy League. Princeton's architecture is predominantly gothic with a few modern and romanesque buildings scattered around campus. I would Dartmouth's buildings to be a bit more New Englandish (not quite sure what architectural style one would place them in) in flavor but I found the campus to be quite beautiful as well. I personally favored Princeton's campus but they both are wonderful.</p>

<p>Academic Schedule- Princeton has a very traditional one, shared by only Harvard in the Ivy League. It runs on a semester system as follows:<br>
Fall Term: Classes, Midterms, Fall Break, Classes, Winter Break, Reading Period, Finals, Intercession
Spring Term: Classes, Midterms, Spring Break, Classes, Reading Period, Finals
Many do not like the fact that Fall exams are after Winter Break but I for one love them. It lets you catch up on sleep and relax a bit before Finals and I really enjoyed that opportunity.<br>
While Dartmouth's D-Plan is loved by many, it was one aspect that turned me off of the school. I didn't like how we were forced to stay on during Sophomore Summer as I figured that would be the time where I could spend time with friends from home. Nevertheless, this is definately a matter left up to personal preference.<br>
On a side note, Princeton is voting to change its schedule to a system in which we have Fall Term (with exams before break), a one month P-term (where one can take an elective course or two) and then the Spring Term.</p>

<p>Prestige- This should have no effect on your decision.</p>

<p>Student Body- Both schools have students that LOVE the school and both brim with school spirit. Unlike other institutions of similar prestige such as MIT, Harvard and Cornell, Princeton and Dartmouth tend to graduate students who love the time they spent there. Both colleges have similar student bodies, at least in terms of diversity (both racial and socio-economic). Considering the fact that Princeton and Dartmouth presumably share many applicants, I don't see one student body being particularly distinct from the other. However, Princeton does have more uber-students, if i may call them that, than Dartmouth such has Olympiad medalists. Nevertheless, I do not see the average Princetonian being much different from the average Dartmouth student.</p>

<p>Campus Fun- Dartmouth has its Greek Life, Princeton has its Eating Clubs. Now before anyone makes any comments about elitism, let me just state that the Eating Clubs are no different from a frat. In fact, they are probably more accessible than frats are. Anyone can go to most of the Eating Clubs on the nights they are open. Some clubs occasionally have members only parties but those are the exceptions. Ivy is the only club thats relatively difficult to access but all you need is to know a member or a friend of a member to obtain a pass to get in.
Unlike Harvard's Finals Clubs or Yale's Secret Societies, the Eating Clubs are not a bastion of elitism and wealth. The majority of the student body joins one during their upperclass years none of them have racial quotas or anything of the sort as a previous poster seemed to imply. </p>

<p>Athletics: Yes Dartmouth has its winter sports, but traditionally, Princeton has been at the top of the Ivy League in most sports. Though this year was a definate down year, with the Women's Field Hockey, Men's Lacrosse and Womens Lacrosse teams failing to win the conference in the first time in a decade, our Women's crew is the top ranked squad nationally and our Men's Heavyweight recently fell to fourth after being dethroned from number 1 by Harvard. In the fall our Women's Soccer made it to the Final four (making them the first Ivy team to make it to the Final Four in a 64-team tournament) as did our Men's Water Polo. Our Basketball team also has a long and storied history, making it to the Final Four once and being the only Ivy League team to ever win a national championship (NIT) in a major sport. They were even ranked in the top 10 back in 1998. I don't know what role athletics would play in your decision and though I hope it is a marginal one, it is one where I view Princeton as having the edge in. </p>

<p>In my view, the two schools are quite similar but Princeton holds the edge in academics. When I made my decision, I picked Princeton because of this but I'll admit that Dartmouth is a fantastic institution in its own. While I hope this message reaches you in time and maybe convinces you pick Princeton, you really can't go wrong with picking Dartmouth and I'm sure you'll have a wonderful time at either.</p>

30

<p>
[quote]
“[DMC] i think your bitterness has more to do with the way you've been treated in other threads”

[/quote]
….well said!!! though the solace you seek is far more likely to be found on the Duke board: get off of our board and drop the artifice!!!</p>

<p>
[quote]
“If one went to Princeton and did well, his/her life would basically be set forever.”

[/quote]
---I’ll let this moronic statement stand on its own.</p>

<p>
[Quote]
“I also think that his screename does not make him devoid of an intellectual opinion or render him incapable of participating in a healthy debate”

[/quote]
---although, this might make you seem to be devoid of a sense of wit or humor.</p>

<p>
[quote]
“This Child”

[/quote]
……go on gramps….</p>

<p>
[quote]
“it is entirely unfair for him NOT to consider prestige when deciding on a school”

[/quote]
----is it, then, unfair for someone to avoid being a prestige-whore? Really? Is prestige-whoring such a virtue that it is deemed unfair to act otherwise?</p>

<p>
[quote]
“magnanimous Princeton”

[/quote]
…..lol</p>

<p>
[quote]
“FountainSiren, you're an idiot.”

[/quote]
---an example of that famous princetonian magnanimousness? And wit? And wisdom? And followed by that god-awful long-windedness and know-it all-attitude that we all know, love and long to be around for the next 4 years?!
And by the way, your analysis struck me as blow-hard-uninformed-drivel.</p>

<p>Pimpdaddy, in a battle of wit’s, you are--obviously--defenseless. Fountain called you out with some wit and the best you got is: “you’re an idiot” …how about: “same to you, but more of it”? or…“I’m rubber your glue”?
Sure, they’re old well known 1st grade retorts, but then they are still a notch higher or the wit scale than “you’re an idiot” … don’t ya think PimpD?</p>

31

<p>If you do not want to hear opinions informed by a great appreciation and Love for Dartmouth, go read threads in the general forums--that's where you will find them.</p>

<p>But please, posters like Devil May Cry, quit telling Dartmouth 09's that they are too biased toward Dartmouth; of course they seem to be, they picked dartmouth over every other school they considered; they are not prejudiced, they have made a choice based on everything they knew about a number of different schools (they/we were not born wanting to attend Dartmouth—we chose it!). They choose Dartmouth for a reason. Those reasons will also be found in the things they will say when comparing dartmouth to other schools for those who are asking and uncertain about their choices.</p>

32

<p>Pimpdaddy1 tells G-unit:</p>

<p>"I do warn against making decisions on your perceptions of the student body as all of these colleges have large diverse student bodies and your impression could more than likely be based on chance encounters."</p>

<p>That is to say, unlike pimpdaddy's impressions of same; as, s/he believes his/her impressions to be superior to others impressions (as his/her long account of his/her impressions of the two student bodies testifies to); because, unless s/he has done research and been published on the subject of Dartmouth v Princeton (or graduated from both, or is secretly President Wright) he/she is basing his/her opinion on "impressions"--like most of us, and as impressions go, none of them tend to be objectively superior to any other impressions (check out Kant's 'Critique of Pure Reason' for a more philosophical analysis on the subject). </p>

<p>For a different take, we could refer to Hemmingway’s view of impressions/opinions in his book, For Whom the Bell Tolls: “opinions are like a s s holes, everybody’s got them and they all stink” thus, simultaneously rendering all opinions to be of the same order and odor.</p>

<p>edit: for the record, I have not gone on to Princeton's board and refered to you as "an idiot" as you feel free to do here in the Dartmouth forum and apparently in the Princeton forum also. I don't know, it just seems tasteless and lacking in certain virtues and graces, but obviously not to everyone. BTW, we all appreciate your describing our school for us in our own forum, your "impressions" are invaluable...we needed that.</p>

33

<p>This thread is amusing but also slightly annoying... of course we're going to be biased towards Dartmouth, PimpDaddy/DMC/anyone else who has taken offense to this – we’re going there, after all! FountainSiren - you have presented us with yet another well reasoned, eloquent rebuttal and I am thoroughly impressed with how you write. Are you considering English or another humanities major while at the D?</p>

<p>Isn't this whole debate a little useless now, anyway, since wouldn't G-unti87 have had to postmark his response by yesterday? I'm not really familiar with how the last-minute deadline works, but I do know that post offices aren't open Sundays in my area.</p>

<p>Best wishes to all,
K</p>

34

<p>gracilisae,</p>

<p>Thank you for your kind words. In answer to your question, I do plan on majoring in a humanities while at Dartmouth (philosophy modified w/ ethics) along with chemistry (to pursue medical ethics).
Maybe you could PM me your sn or email adress and we could get to know each other a little better before we get to D?
have a good one.</p>

<p>Emily</p>

35

<p>hm. i thought the postmark deadline was may 2nd?</p>

36

<p>You can fax to Dartmouth. Don't know about the others.</p>

37

<p>another reason i love Dartmouth: no deposit required!! hehehe i just found out...</p>

38

<p>In response to the comment that this thread no longer seems to be useful to the person who originally posted it...</p>

<p>This thread stopped being about the original question many, many posts ago. It became a debate for other people, not an attempt to answer the question.</p>

<p>(which is fine -- the exchange of ideas is healthy -- but it is also healthy to step back, cool down, and realize when you are unable to change your opponent's mind.)</p>

39

<p>God, you're an ***hole, Kalidescope.</p>

<p>Edit: Since the finality of my aforementioned statement seems not to click with you, I will explain. First off, what the hell is wrong with Princeton? I am going to Duke and I think it's an awesome school. Everytime I defend Dartmouth, I never hear senseless crap spewing out of you. But alas, Dartmouth is NOT the greatest school in the world and you get all touchy. First off, calm down. Second off, I find it highly ironic that you only spew caustic remarks at those FOR Princeton. Then, you talk about witt, right? Nothing you said struck me as particularly clever or awe-inspiring. Do I not have the right to be here because I chose another school? God, get off your frickin' pedestal and shut the hell up.</p>

40

<p>FountainSiren, Kalidescope, what is wrong with you people? Now how much time have either of you spent at these schools? I'm a student at Princeton but my best friend goes to Dartmouth, I spent a week at Dartmouth and my father worked there. As far as I can see, I am far more qualified to provide opinions about these schools than you can.</p>

<p>Fountensiren, about this whole student body thing, I don't really know what you're trying to prove. Even in your pro-Dartmouth arrogance you should be able to realize that you can't judge a student body at schools as large and diverse as Princeton and Dartmouth are. I never tried to generalize the student body at either school, I just said that they both seem to produce happy alumni (as shown by USNews alumni donation rates) and that Princeton definately has a greater concentration of elite students. </p>

<p>Kalidescope, I have better things to do than demonstrate my wit to you d****ebags. I was just here to offer g-unit a pro-Princeton opinion in what seems to be a highly pro-Dartmouth atmosphere. And Fountain called me out with wit? His initial attack was a criticism of my screenname rather than my arguments...wow.</p>

<p>I have never seen people so combative on any board. I really dont care what either of you fanatical Dartmouth '09ers say, I just came to help g-unti87 and judging from his response on the Princeton board, he appreciated it.</p>