Dartmouth v Princeton v Columbia

College Search & Selection
1

<p>Hi everyone,</p>

<p>I'm a recruited athlete for the Class of 2016, and I've received very good feedback (as in they could probably pull me in) from coaches from these 3 schools. I've visited all three and gotten a feel for them, but I'd like make a decision pretty soon so I thought I'd get some input from everyone here, who all seem very knowledgeable about the college process. I'm looking to study econ and psychology, but I can't imagine that one school has a significant edge over the others in these departments since they are all Ivy League. </p>

<p>Dartmouth</p>

<p>Pros: Seems to be the school most focused on undergraduate education out of the 3. When I went on my visit, the coach told me that 99% of classes are taught my professors (not TAs). Kids also seemed very down-to-earth for an Ivy League school. I've also heard they have a really, really strong and tight-knit alumni network.</p>

<p>Cons: Greek-dominated social scene. I've heard that it's drastically overexaggerated, but I'm afraid that it's not. I like to drink, but until I puke my guts out. </p>

<p>Princeton</p>

<p>Pros: The most prestige out of the 3 (but I feel like prestige shouldn't be a factor when picking schools of this caliber). Also seems to be very undergraduate focused. Maybe better corporate recruiting than Dartmouth or Columbia?</p>

<p>Cons: I hate to say it, but the kids seemed a little bit pretentious at times (all seemed to be from Greenwich, Connecticut). Not necessarily a bad thing, but just might not be my vibe. Also grade deflation is a killer.</p>

<p>Columbia</p>

<p>Pros: Obviously New York City. Has the strongest grad programs out of the 3, so it may help me get into Columbia Business School or Columbia Law school, both of which I might consider going to someday. The school had a very cosmopolitan feel to it that I really liked.</p>

<p>Cons: Too many grad students that I feel like the focus is on them, not the undergraduates. One of the rowers on the crew team told me his intro to econ class had over 400 kids. Also, I've heard their administration is terrible, although I haven't experienced it myself.</p>

<p>Any help/input would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!</p>

2

<p>so, today, on March 16, 2011, you are a recruited athlete at these three Ivy League schools for the class that enters in the Fall of 2012?</p>

<p>what is wrong with this picture?</p>

3

<p>that intro class is 400 because too many students want to take it with the prof (Sunil Gulati) because he’s a super star. Columbia has one of the highest % of classes under 20 students (close to 80% of classes under 20) and one of the lowest students:faculty ratios - 6:1</p>

<p>I wouldn’t worry about large classes or professor attention, pretty much all Columbia classes are taught by professors I’d say over 85-90%, this isn’t NYU or UCB. The administration at Columbia can be quite frustrating, but they are slowly improving and it isn’t as extensive as a state school at all. Columbia is quite aware of its flaws and has and is taking steps to improve them. Academic advising used to be a serious let down, but that has improved substantially over the last 4-5 years.</p>

<p>I would say you have a decent perspective on all three, and you realize that each will serve you very well, perhaps visit again and focus on where you truly are exhilarated to spend the next 4 years, perhaps it isn’t even one of these three.</p>

4

<p>USNWR Economics Graduate School Rankings
1 – Princeton
10 - Columbia
NA - Darmouth</p>

<p>NRC Economics Graduate School Rankings
4 – Princeton
14 - Columbia
NA - Dartmouth</p>

5

<p>

</p>

<p>Other than the Professional schools, which Princeton has none, Columbia does not have the strongest graduate programs. It is Princeton that is ahead in this area, including the all-important Economics department for you.</p>

6

<p>Go to Princeton - this is a no-brainer. Its diverse enough to find your niche. NYC isnt going anywhere.</p>

7

<p>If you would ask me to rank these schools this is how I would rank them:</p>

<p>Princeton
Dartmouth
Columbia</p>

<p>This is for undergrad, by the way.</p>

8

<p>USNWR Economics Graduate School Rankings
1 – Princeton
10 - Columbia
NA - Darmouth</p>

<p>NRC Economics Graduate School Rankings
4 – Princeton
14 - Columbia
NA - Dartmouth</p>

<p>Dartmouth (Tuck) is #7 overall according to USNWR. They only offer one degree, MBA. No specific econ grad degree.</p>

9

<p>“It may help me get into Columbia Business School or Columbia Law school”</p>

<p>Not a chance. If anything, Princeton would help you (only if you are a borderline applicant) get into CLS. Princeton might also help you get into Columbia Business School because Princeton is slightly better for consulting and finance.</p>

10

<p>Looking at graduate school department rankings is meaningless. Your economics classes(and your classes in general) will be very similar at all 3 schools. The quality of your peers/professors will also be very similar. The most important consideration is location: one is in Manhattan, the ultimate urban place. One is in a posh but sleepy New Jersey suburb. One is in the middle of the woods in New Hampshire. The next most important consideration is the size of the student body. </p>

<p>The higher perceived prestige of Princeton may also be important to you, although all have a lot of name recognition.</p>

11

<p>“The quality of your peers/professors will also be very similar.”</p>

<p>Professors, yes. Peers, no.</p>

<p>The kids at Princeton seem pretentious because they have good reason to conduct themselves in that way. It may not even be the case that they have a superiority complex–rather, you felt self-conscious and intimidated in/by their presence.</p>

<p>As a recruited athlete, you may end up feeling this way wherever you go, and justifiably so. Therefore, just pick the “best” school that is offering you admission–in this case, Princeton.</p>

12

<p>

</p>

<p>What “presence”? A major portion of the 3 school’s student bodies are interchangeable. Princeton definitely has the best name and lowest admit rate. Whether they have such incredible innate talent that their very presence intimidates is highly arguable. I was accepted Princeton/Yale and a few other schools years ago and didn’t go. Did I lose my “presence?” Maybe so.</p>

<p>I still feel there is never an excuse for pretension.</p>

13

<p>Dartmouth has a huge presence on Wall Street, so it’s lack of a grad econ program doesn’t seem to hinder its undergrads. Yes, D is in a small town, fostering a close-knit community, but the social scene is dominated by the Greek system.</p>

<p>Columbia is first and foremost a research Uni, with more grads than undergrads. Whether that is a good fit only you can decide. Social life at CC revolves around NYC, not the campus.</p>

<p>No, attending Columbia College will make zero difference in admission to Columbia Law School. Grades+LSAT = 99% of admission.</p>

14

<p>^Getting into Columbia Law School is much more than grades and LSAT… just like getting into Columbia undergrad is much more than grades and SAT. I agree that going to Columbia College won’t help your chances.</p>

<p>@kwu: Saying that the quality of students at Princeton are different than the quality of students at the other two schools is laughable.</p>

<p>@op: Choose the school you like the best. You’ll be in a position to do whatever you want from any of those three. Personally, I would go to Columbia for New York. Pick the criteria most important to you.</p>

<p>Also you should know that coaches have very little pull with admissions at top schools. A good friend of mine was academically qualified and on good terms with the tennis coach at Columbia and was rejected. There was a recent NYTimes article about it (focusing on Haverford admissions). The coaches can recommend you, but it ultimately comes down to admissions’ decision.</p>

15

<p>I wouldn’t say that. a friend of mine was very good at softball and got into Brown because she was recruited. she had pretty average scores and everything else so its pretty clear she got in to play. being a recruited athlete, even at the top schools, can get you in.</p>

16

<p>You mentioned the crew team–are you a rower? If so, Princeton is likely to have the best conditions for your sport.</p>

17

<p>

</p>

<p>Actually no it is not. Unlike undergrad, law schools barely care about ECs; yes, you can’t be a recluse, but any EC will work for the standard applicatn. EC’s matter some for those below medians and those in the lowest quartiles. But, those EC’s have to be exemplar: D1 athlete, Rhodes/Fullbright, perhaps TFA, etc. Otherwise, if you beat the law schools’ 75th % for both gpa+test scores, write a decent essay and have typical good recs, your admissions (to CLS as well as Harvard Law) have a surprisingly high probability. Yale & Stanford have much smaller classes, and EC’s are more meaningful at those two law schools.</p>

18

<p>Thanks for all the help so far everyone. The 3 coaches have pretty much offered me admission as long as I get over an 1800 on the SATs. Crew-wise, I know that I’m never going to row in the Olympics or anything of that caliber so I’d really just like to use crew to get into the best school possible.</p>

19

<p>That’s not really true. Most applicants at top law schools have top grades and scores. Grades and LSATs are important, obviously, but if admissions has something to look at other than those, they will focus on the other things. So yes, the other things must be spectacular.</p>

<p>I talked about this for a while with an admissions rep from Georgetown (my father went to Georgetown Law). Perhaps the CLS is different, but I doubt it.</p>

20

<p>^^actually Georgetown is one of the more predictable outcomes. Beat their two numbers and the chances of admission approaches 80% on numbers alone. (There aren’t that many folks who score 172+ and want to attend GU over their other choices.)</p>

<p>Essentially, those above the 75th% at CLS have a 65% chance of admission. Above that number for Harvard and its ~50%. Contrast that with Columbia’s and Harvard’s undergraduate programs!</p>

<p>Adcoms speak the spin. But don’t take my word for it. Check out the LS thread on cc, or forums that focus solely on LS.</p>